Author Topic: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal  (Read 6110 times)

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Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #75 on: January 29, 2013, 06:51:21 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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Rondo put up some incredible stats last season during the playoffs, but he definitely wasn't going up against the leagues' top point guards ... an and the fact he was playing 43 minutes per game definitely inflated his stats a bit .   Cut that to 36 minutes and those stats drop closer to regular season rondo.

The rest of this season will be fascinating.  There's a solid chance we play better without him.  I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   

Let's just say this has the potential to be very interesting.  We have guys who can generate offense.  We could go out and get a post up player or allow kg to pound down low more often...  We don't need to start Bass.  We don't need to make up for the fact our point guard is a semi liability off the ball...   

That combined with the fact it clears up our guard clog (no more dnps for Barbosa), moves the 6'2 180 pound Bradley to PG, ensures our two best defensive guards are starting and moves terry to the 6th man role he belongs in... It could be very interesting

I can't think of a team who has ever won a title due to having a super good passer.  At least with Nash it was more plausible, because off the ball he doubled as arguably the best shooter in the world

Rondo looked pretty good when we had Shaq

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #76 on: January 29, 2013, 06:58:28 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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Rondo put up some incredible stats last season during the playoffs, but he definitely wasn't going up against the leagues' top point guards ... an and the fact he was playing 43 minutes per game definitely inflated his stats a bit .   Cut that to 36 minutes and those stats drop closer to regular season rondo.

The rest of this season will be fascinating.  There's a solid chance we play better without him.  I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   

Let's just say this has the potential to be very interesting.  We have guys who can generate offense.  We could go out and get a post up player or allow kg to pound down low more often...  We don't need to start Bass.  We don't need to make up for the fact our point guard is a semi liability off the ball...   

That combined with the fact it clears up our guard clog (no more dnps for Barbosa), moves the 6'2 180 pound Bradley to PG, ensures our two best defensive guards are starting and moves terry to the 6th man role he belongs in... It could be very interesting

I can't think of a team who has ever won a title due to having a super good passer.  At least with Nash it was more plausible, because off the ball he doubled as arguably the best shooter in the world

Rondo looked pretty good when we had Shaq

This.  TP.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #77 on: January 29, 2013, 07:00:29 PM »

Offline ejk3489

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The rest of this season will be fascinating.  There's a solid chance we play better without him.  I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I'd hope Ray would have enough tact to not be "giddy" over a season ending injury to a past teammate.

It sure seems like that's the mentality around here though.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2013, 07:07:25 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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The rest of this season will be fascinating.  There's a solid chance we play better without him.  I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I'd hope Ray would have enough tact to not be "giddy" over a season ending injury to a past teammate.

It sure seems like that's the mentality around here though.

Well said.

I cannot seem to fathom why some would be happy we just lost our most talented player.  It's disturbing.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2013, 07:50:40 PM »

Offline eugen

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2013, 09:38:41 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

  Aside from the fact that the post you quoted was clearly wrong, the Heat don't rely on ball movement, they rely on dribble penetration from LeBron. You've picked the most ball dominant player in the league as an example of a ball movement based offense.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2013, 10:01:16 PM »

Offline blink

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

What is 'offensive manover'?  not being a jerk, I just don't know what you are trying to say 3/4 the time. 

Last I checked Rondo isn't the one who makes KG and PP static, that would be whatever offensive scheme we are running at the time.  Our other players seem to wait around for Rondo to make a play sometimes.  I wish that we could move without the ball more, and that includes everyone. 

Moving without the ball gets open looks and allows for better ball movement.  This is a big problem with our team, but it isn't only on Rondo, it is the whole team.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #82 on: January 29, 2013, 10:20:14 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

  Aside from the fact that the post you quoted was clearly wrong, the Heat don't rely on ball movement, they rely on dribble penetration from LeBron. You've picked the most ball dominant player in the league as an example of a ball movement based offense.

The Heat do have great ball movement.  They just do it differently then us.  Like you said, LeBron penetrates, and then he kicks it out, and the perimeter players swing it to the open man.

Don't forget that LeBron may be the best passing non-guard ever.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2013, 10:44:05 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

  Aside from the fact that the post you quoted was clearly wrong, the Heat don't rely on ball movement, they rely on dribble penetration from LeBron. You've picked the most ball dominant player in the league as an example of a ball movement based offense.

The Heat do have great ball movement.  They just do it differently then us.  Like you said, LeBron penetrates, and then he kicks it out, and the perimeter players swing it to the open man.

Don't forget that LeBron may be the best passing non-guard ever.

  I always feel a little bad for the fans that aren't old enough to have seen Bird play.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2013, 11:01:51 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

What is 'offensive manover'?  not being a jerk, I just don't know what you are trying to say 3/4 the time. 

Last I checked Rondo isn't the one who makes KG and PP static, that would be whatever offensive scheme we are running at the time.  Our other players seem to wait around for Rondo to make a play sometimes.  I wish that we could move without the ball more, and that includes everyone. 

Moving without the ball gets open looks and allows for better ball movement.  This is a big problem with our team, but it isn't only on Rondo, it is the whole team.

The bolded part is extremely important.  It's partly why Bradley fits so well with Rondo.  The rest of the guys just stand around waiting.  It's bizarre.  That is either the coach's fault, or the players themselves.

Maybe if the rest of the players moved around a bit, our offense would flow better.  Must be Rondo's fault though, because I'm sure he tells them to just stnad there like a bunch of mooks.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2013, 11:07:08 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

  Aside from the fact that the post you quoted was clearly wrong, the Heat don't rely on ball movement, they rely on dribble penetration from LeBron. You've picked the most ball dominant player in the league as an example of a ball movement based offense.

The Heat do have great ball movement.  They just do it differently then us.  Like you said, LeBron penetrates, and then he kicks it out, and the perimeter players swing it to the open man.

Don't forget that LeBron may be the best passing non-guard ever.

  I always feel a little bad for the fans that aren't old enough to have seen Bird play.

I didn't say LeBron is, I said he might me.

He's got to be in your top five, though?

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #86 on: January 29, 2013, 11:27:24 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

  Aside from the fact that the post you quoted was clearly wrong, the Heat don't rely on ball movement, they rely on dribble penetration from LeBron. You've picked the most ball dominant player in the league as an example of a ball movement based offense.

The Heat do have great ball movement.  They just do it differently then us.  Like you said, LeBron penetrates, and then he kicks it out, and the perimeter players swing it to the open man.

Don't forget that LeBron may be the best passing non-guard ever.

  I always feel a little bad for the fans that aren't old enough to have seen Bird play.

I didn't say LeBron is, I said he might me.

He's got to be in your top five, though

  I don't have a list per se, but yes he'd be in my top 5.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #87 on: January 29, 2013, 11:29:53 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

  Aside from the fact that the post you quoted was clearly wrong, the Heat don't rely on ball movement, they rely on dribble penetration from LeBron. You've picked the most ball dominant player in the league as an example of a ball movement based offense.

The Heat do have great ball movement.  They just do it differently then us.  Like you said, LeBron penetrates, and then he kicks it out, and the perimeter players swing it to the open man.

Don't forget that LeBron may be the best passing non-guard ever.

  I always feel a little bad for the fans that aren't old enough to have seen Bird play.

I didn't say LeBron is, I said he might me.

He's got to be in your top five, though

  I don't have a list per se, but yes he'd be in my top 5.
It's debatable,
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #88 on: January 29, 2013, 11:32:19 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I've argued for a while that Boston's offense was built around rondos' weaknesses.  The guy couldn't shoot so defenders slacked off him... Thus we needed guys like bass and kg to linger around the mid range so they could open up the paint for rondo drives.  If you didn't have jump shooting big men, rondo wouldn't be able to drive, because those jump shooting big men wouldn't be pulling defenders out of the paint.  Also, just in general yoU needed to surround rondo with shooters.   


Agree with you. The problems the team are offensively and defensively. Offensive manover of Rondo is slow, and predictable sometimes. Very static position of players like PP/KG or Ray (till last year). The only smart moves that Rondo make in are unpredictable smart penetrations that he does well. But if you take care of offensive philosophy of Rondo, of coarse there is not any. At this pint, I don't understand how Doc does not change anything, because in this season this problem is more than evident. If you compare Ray playing for Heat you will see that Heat do not use great PG, who can't play more with the ball like Rondo does. So HEAT use more movement of Lebron, Wade or other shooting guys, and let the PG to play less and less with the ball, and delivery the ball the Lebron, Wade, etc. This HEAT strategy killed the OKC in final games. Defensilvy Rondo is a poor defender...

  Aside from the fact that the post you quoted was clearly wrong, the Heat don't rely on ball movement, they rely on dribble penetration from LeBron. You've picked the most ball dominant player in the league as an example of a ball movement based offense.

The Heat do have great ball movement.  They just do it differently then us.  Like you said, LeBron penetrates, and then he kicks it out, and the perimeter players swing it to the open man.

Don't forget that LeBron may be the best passing non-guard ever.

  I always feel a little bad for the fans that aren't old enough to have seen Bird play.

I didn't say LeBron is, I said he might me.

He's got to be in your top five, though

  I don't have a list per se, but yes he'd be in my top 5.
It's debatable,

  Obviously, in fact the definition of "best passer" is probably debatable as well.

Re: Rondo is being put too high on a pedestal
« Reply #89 on: January 29, 2013, 11:32:58 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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The rest of this season will be fascinating.  There's a solid chance we play better without him.  I imagine Ray Allen is giddy right now... the tail end of this season could completely vindicate him and prove him right about Rajon.   

I'd hope Ray would have enough tact to not be "giddy" over a season ending injury to a past teammate.

It sure seems like that's the mentality around here though.

Well said.

I cannot seem to fathom why some would be happy we just lost our most talented player.  It's disturbing.
I'm finding it very disturbing.
Peace through Tyranny

 

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