Author Topic: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo  (Read 7253 times)

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Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2013, 03:57:00 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I've been one of the biggest Rondo supporters around here for the past few years, but I hope it's true that this team plays better without Rondo, because . . . well . . . they'll be playing without Rondo.

This in no way means I'm not looking forward to his return and the opportunity of watching him lead the next generation of the Boston Celtics to glory. 

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2013, 04:06:06 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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I've been one of the biggest Rondo supporters around here for the past few years, but I hope it's true that this team plays better without Rondo, because . . . well . . . they'll be playing without Rondo.

This in no way means I'm not looking forward to his return and the opportunity of watching him lead the next generation of the Boston Celtics to glory.

I think this should be the attitude of those who feel we will take a huge drop off without him. TP to you. Your next comment about him "leading" us to future glory was thought inspiring. I threw together some key qualities of a leader in sports from different articles:

Confidence
Inspiring
Integrity
Clear Vision
Helpful and Aware

Rondo definitely has the first. He has never lacked individual confidence. I am not sure that he possesses any of the others though. He has been difficult for many teammates to deal with and doesn't inspire others per se. He is kind of a loner and doesn't go out of his way to work with others and try to help them be better. His lack of effort throughout the regular season and antics that get him in trouble and suspended definitely question his integrity as far as sports go. Kind of hard to have a clear vision to lead the team when he doesn't really act like a leader.

All in all, I think we are in trouble if we don't have an actual "leader" other than Rondo going forward. He is a good PG and individual player most of the time, however I don't think he is anywhere close to a leader. At this point in his career if he is not he won't be. KG is clearly a leader. He is someone that guys can look up to. Rondo, not so much.

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2013, 04:16:02 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Long-term, this team is worse without Rondo.  Period.

 Regarding NBA Game Time, without Rondo the score is 25-16 from 2008 till now.


find our record without kg...it's possibly better then that..but long term we saw how that panned out.

What do you mean long term?


kg missed several games the year we won the title...the team rallied and was something like 10-2 or better without him...he came back and we went on to win the title.
the next year he got hurt..team did fine...he ended up being out for the year and they crashed and burned in the second round

 were we better without kg?

short term, we were fine
 long term, no

similar situation will unfold here

The situation isn't similar because KG is better and more important for the Celtics, even in KG's advanced age. KG's affect on the Celtics weighs heavily more than anything Rondo can do.

KG is the backbone of the defense, post scorer, pick-and-pop guy, automatic from 17ft, pick and roll defense, etc. endless stuff he brings to the table in the playoffs

The stuff Rondo brings can be replicated by another point guard. Really I wanna know, what does he do that is so unique and special for the Celtics that another guard can't do? Most of what he does is dribble the ball for 10 seconds and pass to open players
-Doesn't drive the ball in fear of his free throw %
-Has horrible perimeter defense
-Shaky inconsistent jumpshot

Rondo is basically non-existent on offense except for passing. Very easy for other teams to play 5 on 4, which makes the Celtics easy to defend. So people are saying Celtics have no chance when they can do the same tasks as Rondo (and probably even better)? I don't get it

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2013, 04:27:19 PM »

Offline eugen

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I meant without Rondo Cs plays much better in general this season. More freedom and diversity of action in offensive plays, and stronger and better on defensive plays. Rondo is not Westbrook in defensive actions. Imagine if you have Westbrook in Cs system and not Rondo (regarding type of PG) In offensive plays, he is the terminal of the play, and everything is depending on his ball delivery, not invloving a lot of movement and i see KG and PP more static shooters.. Analyze this fact in balance of Rondo Vs Cs play possibilities.

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2013, 04:27:58 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I think that we need to remember that the vast majority of the people on here that think this team is better off without Rondo aren't saying Rondo isn't talented or the best PG on this team. They do point to actual facts that show the statistics say that this is true and not just with a one or two game sample. Over his career games missed we have won more when he is off the floor versus on. That doesn't tell the whole story, however it is true.

  While it's true that the Celts have a slightly better record in games Rondo misses, I think the issue is that people latch onto stats like that solely because it puts Rondo in a bad light. Other posts have pointed out that our record (since 2008) with KG missing games is better than our record with Rondo missing games.

  Does that mean that KG is less important than Rondo? Also, our record in games KG missed in 2008 was better than our record in games where he played. Does that mean that we didn't need him that year? In fact our record in games KG missed during our title season was better than our record in games that Rondo missed. Does that mean that Rondo was the more important player that year?

  My guess is that the people who are using +/- stats would almost universally claim that KG is uber important regardless of what the numbers say. One would assume that they either don't know  whether the number proves what they think it does or they know it doesn't and are citing it anyways because it shows Rondo in a bad light.

Also, Rondo tends to dribble the ball at the top too much with guys standing their watching to see if he is going to take it to the rim. Some games he does, and some he just causes us to take a poor shot late in the shot clock. Terry for example runs the pick and roll really well. Rondo not so much. Bradley attacks much more and doesn't sit and dribble out the clock. The stats show we aren't really worse offensively without Rondo.

  In the 10-11 season our ORtg was 10 points better when Rondo played. In the 2011 playoffs, 17 points better. In the 11-12 season, 7 points better. In last year's playoffs, 11 points better.

  Are you sure the current numbers aren't just noisy because we've been so inconsistent this year?

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2013, 04:30:21 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I've been one of the biggest Rondo supporters around here for the past few years, but I hope it's true that this team plays better without Rondo, because . . . well . . . they'll be playing without Rondo.

This in no way means I'm not looking forward to his return and the opportunity of watching him lead the next generation of the Boston Celtics to glory.

I think this should be the attitude of those who feel we will take a huge drop off without him. TP to you. Your next comment about him "leading" us to future glory was thought inspiring. I threw together some key qualities of a leader in sports from different articles:

Confidence
Inspiring
Integrity
Clear Vision
Helpful and Aware

Rondo definitely has the first. He has never lacked individual confidence. I am not sure that he possesses any of the others though.

  Obviously you have no idea whatsoever whether he possesses those qualities or not.

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2013, 04:30:39 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I can understand a fan not liking Rondo, and wishing we had a different type of point guard.  Certainly, there are flaws in his game, and an offense centered around a ball-dominant point guard isn't for everyone.

I can't understand fans thinking we're better without Rondo, and without obtaining an all-star level replacement.  We just lost a huge talent, and there's no way to get another player of his caliber.  That being the case, we're worse, without much of a question.

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Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2013, 04:49:09 PM »

Offline eugen

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I can't understand fans thinking we're better without Rondo, and without obtaining an all-star level replacement.


Listen...Of course Cs can be better without Rondo. I mean the way of play than can give you better plays and more games to win. Where is the point that you can not undestand?! You might have the best PG of all time but your team can not be able to win anything. Remeber Cavs when they had Lebron. Do not mix things, on making opinions about Rondos skills, with productivity of Rondos skills in Cs sysytem of play proficency.

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2013, 04:52:46 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I can't understand fans thinking we're better without Rondo, and without obtaining an all-star level replacement.


Listen...Of course Cs can be better without Rondo. I mean the way of play than can give you better plays and more games to win. Where is the point that you can not undestand?! You might have the best PG of all time but your team can not be able to win anything. Remeber Cavs when they had Lebron. Do not mix things, on making opinions about Rondos skills, with productivity of Rondos skills in Cs sysytem of play proficency.

Hypothetically, even if a team with Rondo only gets to 85% of its potential, that's still better than what we'll be able to accomplish with Terry or Barbosa or Bradley as our starting PG.

I would have been fine with trading Rondo if we got good talent back.  Losing him for nothing hurts the team, though.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2013, 05:01:57 PM »

Offline kgainez

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This team will now trick quite a few fans into thinking we can contend bc of regular season wins.

well i also know that last years run, we were 1-0 with Rondo. So there's that

 ;D

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2013, 05:08:45 PM »

Offline ejk3489

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I've been one of the biggest Rondo supporters around here for the past few years, but I hope it's true that this team plays better without Rondo, because . . . well . . . they'll be playing without Rondo.

This in no way means I'm not looking forward to his return and the opportunity of watching him lead the next generation of the Boston Celtics to glory.
He has been difficult for many teammates to deal with and doesn't inspire others per se. He is kind of a loner and doesn't go out of his way to work with others and try to help them be better. His lack of effort throughout the regular season and antics that get him in trouble and suspended definitely question his integrity as far as sports go. Kind of hard to have a clear vision to lead the team when he doesn't really act like a leader.

All in all, I think we are in trouble if we don't have an actual "leader" other than Rondo going forward. He is a good PG and individual player most of the time, however I don't think he is anywhere close to a leader. At this point in his career if he is not he won't be. KG is clearly a leader. He is someone that guys can look up to. Rondo, not so much.

I'm not sure where your opinion of Rondo being a loner and not helping others comes from when most evidence suggest otherwise...

Quote
Yet his younger counterparts claim Rondo has been the glue to the locker room for years. Avery Bradley said it was Rondo, not the seasoned veterans, who checked on him regularly during his rookie season to make sure he was eating right, had the transportation he needed or had someone to talk to when he was feeling lonely or overwhelmed.

Bradley was devastated when he sent to the NBA Developmental League in January 2011. "I felt like it was a punishment almost," he said.

It was Rondo who stopped by Bradley's apartment and stressed the move was a chance for him to play and improve, and Rondo who made arrangements to watch Bradley play in Maine before a last-minute change to a Celtics practice scuttled the plans.

"But it showed how much he cared about me," Bradley said. "How much he cares about everybody."


Quote
Rondo organized offseason workouts in Los Angeles, oversaw the basketball drills, arranged for flag football games, even tried to coax the Celtics' owners into giving them the private plane to travel to the West Coast. League rules forbid that -- "we paid our own way for everything," Rondo said -- but the trip was his idea, hatched from a conversation he had with Pierce at a Barack Obama fundraiser.

"It was Rajon's show," Garnett said.

That, insisted Keyon Dooling, is nothing new. It has been, he scolded, that way for years.

"He is the most underappreciated leader in this league," Dooling declared. "Do you know how many times we were at the Rondo family home [last season]? We were there all the time, bonding, building team chemistry.

Quote
In the middle of that heated series, Wilcox got an afternoon phone call from Rondo. "Just checking in on you, big fella," he said.

Daniels, who fell out of Boston's rotation, said Rondo was the one who implored him to stay sharp, to stay ready. "He's such an incredible teammate," Daniels said. "And he gets such a bad rap."

Quote
But Sullinger's working on expanding his offensive repertoire, a move that could pay big dividends later this season or perhaps later in Sullinger's career.

The power forward gave credit to Rajon Rondo for his 3-pointer Monday, indicating to the Boston Herald that he and the point guard work on pick-and-pop shots like those each day after practice.

Does that sound like a horrible teammate who likes to keep to himself?

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2013, 05:23:46 PM »

Offline eugen

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This team will now trick quite a few fans into thinking we can contend bc of regular season wins.

well i also know that last years run, we were 1-0 with Rondo. So there's that

 ;D

Look...After Friday, everybody was talking about difficult situation,  imminent trades etc. etc.. So, do not forget about current poor season. Seems to me, we are talking about that everything is ok. But is not...I do not thing a team can be depended on one single player. Because from wrong opinions that some folks give us, is shown terrible dependency of Cs team form Rondo. I do not think like them. In opposite, I think can play and win more games without Rondo. So, yesterday was the second example after game won at MSG

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2013, 05:57:02 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Can the team play better without Rondo?  Well, they've largely sucked with him this season, so it wouldn't be that hard.

The bottom line is that no matter how good Boston plays now, we don't have that guy who can give a superstar performance when needed in the playoffs.  If the star on another team goes nuts, we don't have anyone to counterbalance that.

Mikie

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2013, 06:05:43 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Well, I am glad all of you aired this opinion because the look on PP and KG face certainly doesn't agree with this sentiment.  They looked devastated and it ruined what should have been a glorious victory.   

Re: Is a fact: this team play better without Rondo
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2013, 06:32:57 PM »

Offline SCeltic34

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Another one of these foolish threads. 

Forget the regular season.  Let's talk about the playoffs, where each basketball game actually matters (and I am confident the C's will make the playoffs this year).

Quite simply, the playoffs are about player matchups.  You win playoff games with stars.  We just lost our best player, our all-star point guard who creates the biggest mismatch - to our advantage - against opposing teams.  When you say that the Celtics are a better team without Rondo, you're insinuating that we have a better chance without him against championship caliber teams like the Heat and Thunder in a 7 game series.  If you seriously believe this, I don't know what to tell you, except to share with me whatever it is you're smoking.

The wins over NYK and Miami were nice and all, but the regular season doesn't mean anything. Rondo's ACL injury is literally the worst thing that could have happened to the C's this season.  We are NOT a better team without him in any way, shape, or form.  Period.  Furthermore, we lost our most valuable trade chip, and whether or not he'll be the same player when he returns is in question.

I've learned never to count out a team that has KG and PP on it, but our playoff chances took a significant blow yesterday. And let's be honest - our chances at a title are now very, very slim.

 

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