Author Topic: Trade Rondo for championship  (Read 5263 times)

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Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2013, 10:06:50 AM »

Online wdleehi

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Again, what team is going to give value for Rondo?



No one knows how long he will be out.  A team trading for him have to think that he will be out the max time.


With leaves one season before Rondo has a player option that we know he is going to opt out of.




So, what piece of value are the Celtics going to get for a single year rental of a player no one can be sure of when he returns (again, if a team trades for Rondo, the worst case scenario has to be though of)how good he will still be?



It would be a terrible use of Rondo as piece for the Celtics.  If the Celtics want to trade him, they have to do it when he is playing well.  (or at least playing)
I think Atlanta would. Bringing in Rondo, makes it far more likely they can keep Josh Smith, and Atlanta has Louis Williams out for the year.  That means Boston could probably pretty easily get Williams and some other assets from Atlanta for Rondo

This would work

Rondo for Williams, Jenkins, Korver/Morrow, 2013 1st (houston its lotto protected), 2014 1st (atlanta)

Pretty solid value for Rondo and a trade that makes sense for the team acquiring him.  Other players could be added to the team from both sides (for example, maybe Boston moves Terry and both Korver and Morrow are included).






Does Atlanta actually want to keep Smith?  And if Smith still walks, can they keep Rondo when the player's option comes up.


And why would they give up two 1st for a player that may not be back until 2014-2015?



Finally, that move doesn't help the Celtics improve their chances this season.  Just adds more guards/swingmen of similar talent level.   


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Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2013, 10:20:20 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Again, what team is going to give value for Rondo?



No one knows how long he will be out.  A team trading for him have to think that he will be out the max time.


With leaves one season before Rondo has a player option that we know he is going to opt out of.




So, what piece of value are the Celtics going to get for a single year rental of a player no one can be sure of when he returns (again, if a team trades for Rondo, the worst case scenario has to be though of)how good he will still be?



It would be a terrible use of Rondo as piece for the Celtics.  If the Celtics want to trade him, they have to do it when he is playing well.  (or at least playing)
I think Atlanta would. Bringing in Rondo, makes it far more likely they can keep Josh Smith, and Atlanta has Louis Williams out for the year.  That means Boston could probably pretty easily get Williams and some other assets from Atlanta for Rondo

This would work

Rondo for Williams, Jenkins, Korver/Morrow, 2013 1st (houston its lotto protected), 2014 1st (atlanta)

Pretty solid value for Rondo and a trade that makes sense for the team acquiring him.  Other players could be added to the team from both sides (for example, maybe Boston moves Terry and both Korver and Morrow are included).






Does Atlanta actually want to keep Smith?  And if Smith still walks, can they keep Rondo when the player's option comes up.


And why would they give up two 1st for a player that may not be back until 2014-2015?



Finally, that move doesn't help the Celtics improve their chances this season.  Just adds more guards/swingmen of similar talent level.
You are right it doesn't help Boston much this season, but I was more about answering your question on a team that would give up value and that would want Rondo.  The 2 firsts aren't that big of a deal to Atlanta as they still have their own this year, the Rockets is lottery protected, and I imagine they would lottery protect the 2014 1st (so it isn't like they are giving up top 5 picks).

But for a team looking to rebuild, 2 firsts, even later first rounders, is nice value, plus you add Williams who is darn good but injured and Jenkins (who has shown at least ok potential).  At the same time, Atlanta doesn't give up much that will help them this year and gives up nothing that will convince Smith to stay, which brings me to your other question. I believe Atlanta wants to keep Smith, otherwise they would be actively trying to move him, which they are not doing (there are no rumors from anyone with him, which means they aren't actively looking at it). And yes, I believe Atlanta would want to and be able to keep Rondo in 2015, if they wanted to. 
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Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2013, 10:25:09 AM »

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If I were a GM for a rebuilding team you can bet I would have already called about Rondo. I'd like to strike a deal with Detroit if I could. Rondo for Drummond, Calderon and a pick. I think it would have to be 2 separate trades but I'd probably trade Rondo for a center prospect like Drummond and a pick. Detroit obviously gets the better of the talent deal but the C's start rebuilding in a big way and don't hurt this years roster any more than it has been already. Here's another idea:

KG/Barbosa to LAC for Bledsoe/Jordon
Rondo to DET for Drummond/Calderon and 1st
Pierce to Chicago for Boozer and the 1st (from CHA)
JET/Melo to Memphis for Wroten/Allen

That outs all of our veteran leadership on long contracts and ins Bledsoe/Jordon/Drummond/Boozer/Wroten plus two 1st (Allen/Calderon are on expirings). I honestly can't tell if this is just me overvaluing our assets or not. Chicago would definitely do it though. Shedding Boozer and waiving Pierce saves them for years to come. LAC would be a tough sell for a rental in KG. Detroit is probably 50/50 and Memphis probably says no. A girl can dream though :)

Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2013, 11:20:33 AM »

Offline Bombastic Jones

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Again, what team is going to give value for Rondo?


Not many teams. But I'll name one: Phoenix. If they felt he'd be back before 1/1/2014, I could see them trading for him.

They need a franchise player who is a winner wicked bad.

I agree.  It would kill me to trade Rondo but I would if we could get Dragic & Gortat back.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=arwcyyo

or even try to get Dudley in the deal as well:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=av5v2tv

We could also throw in a 2013 first rounder, Phx seems to like collecting those.  I think it would bring their total up to about 16 or 17 first round picks next season.

Anyway, I dont see Rondo's injury as a huge hit to his value.  For sure it hurts his value, but I dont think it completely destroys it.  I think a team early in rebuilding would defnitely be up for getting him and willing to give up pieces to do so.  Especially if there is any truth to the Phx wanting J-Smooth rumors.  Rondo would be a nice piece to help entice Smith.

Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2013, 11:22:32 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If I were a GM for a rebuilding team you can bet I would have already called about Rondo. I'd like to strike a deal with Detroit if I could. Rondo for Drummond, Calderon and a pick. I think it would have to be 2 separate trades but I'd probably trade Rondo for a center prospect like Drummond and a pick. Detroit obviously gets the better of the talent deal but the C's start rebuilding in a big way and don't hurt this years roster any more than it has been already. Here's another idea:

KG/Barbosa to LAC for Bledsoe/Jordon
Rondo to DET for Drummond/Calderon and 1st
Pierce to Chicago for Boozer and the 1st (from CHA)
JET/Melo to Memphis for Wroten/Allen

That outs all of our veteran leadership on long contracts and ins Bledsoe/Jordon/Drummond/Boozer/Wroten plus two 1st (Allen/Calderon are on expirings). I honestly can't tell if this is just me overvaluing our assets or not. Chicago would definitely do it though. Shedding Boozer and waiving Pierce saves them for years to come. LAC would be a tough sell for a rental in KG. Detroit is probably 50/50 and Memphis probably says no. A girl can dream though :)
why on earth would Detroit trade Drummond for Rondo?

Why would Chicago trade for Pierce when they have Deng, and give up a 1st to do it?

Why would Memphis give up Allen for Terry's awful contract (and play)?

I think the Clippers would do that trade, but why would Boston?  Jordan is not worth his contract and isn't the type of player you acquire to rebuild.
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Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2013, 11:31:49 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Again, what team is going to give value for Rondo?


Not many teams. But I'll name one: Phoenix. If they felt he'd be back before 1/1/2014, I could see them trading for him.

They need a franchise player who is a winner wicked bad.

I agree.  It would kill me to trade Rondo but I would if we could get Dragic & Gortat back.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=arwcyyo

or even try to get Dudley in the deal as well:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=av5v2tv

We could also throw in a 2013 first rounder, Phx seems to like collecting those.  I think it would bring their total up to about 16 or 17 first round picks next season.

Anyway, I dont see Rondo's injury as a huge hit to his value.  For sure it hurts his value, but I dont think it completely destroys it.  I think a team early in rebuilding would defnitely be up for getting him and willing to give up pieces to do so.  Especially if there is any truth to the Phx wanting J-Smooth rumors.  Rondo would be a nice piece to help entice Smith.
Phoenix won't give up both Dragic and Gortat for Rondo alone.

They might, however do something like this

PHO - Rondo, Smith
ATL - Gortat, Dragic, Bass, Lee
BOS - Teague, Williams, Dudley, W. Johnson

Boston gets a lot closer to a title this year by adding Teague and Dudley, gets a potential SG of the future in Williams, and shaves some cash by bringing in Johnson.  Boston would have to re-sign Teague this summer, but Williams and Dudley are both signed long term on very reasonable deals. 

Phoenix gets 2 stars who are friends to build around for 2 supposedly unhappy players.

Atlanta gets a center to move Horford to PF, a PG signed long term on a reasonable contract, and more depth to the team.
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Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2013, 11:41:12 AM »

Offline Bombastic Jones

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Quote
PHO - Rondo, Smith
ATL - Gortat, Dragic, Bass, Lee
BOS - Teague, Williams, Dudley, W. Johnson

I think that is a pretty amazing trade for Phx and Atl.  Not a fan of it for us though.  It seems you value JSmith higher than Rondo.  I dont, even with Rondo's injury. 

Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2013, 12:24:38 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Quote
PHO - Rondo, Smith
ATL - Gortat, Dragic, Bass, Lee
BOS - Teague, Williams, Dudley, W. Johnson

I think that is a pretty amazing trade for Phx and Atl.  Not a fan of it for us though.  It seems you value JSmith higher than Rondo.  I dont, even with Rondo's injury.
I don't value Smith more than Rondo, I said Phoenix wouldn't give up Dragic and Gortat for Rondo alone.  I don't think they would give up both of them for Smith alone either, but certainly would to get both of them.

I like Teague a lot (more than Dragic, which is why I have him coming here rather than Dragic just going to Atlanta).  I think he is going to be a top tier PG in this league for a very long time and is the perfect player in the Boston system. He is also playing well and healthy. I think Dudley is an excellent shooter and will fill the role that lee and terry were supposed to fill, but aren't. I also like Williams. He can score at will, which isn't a bad thing from your SG. Of course that was pre-injury. Dudley and Williams also have contracts as good or better than what Boston gave Lee and Terry, so for me that is a no brainer as they are much better than those two.

It would certainly be a risky trade, especially without any draft picks, but I think it gives Boston a better chance this year, and makes them better for longer going forward with a lot more actual tradeable assets (assuming Teague is re-signed).  Now admittedly it leaves Boston a bit light inside, but with some roster spots still available, I think they can fill those spots ok especially with some of the assets available.  Maybe you alter the trade a bit and send Terry to Phoenix for Beasley or Frye in it that way you get a bit more size and get rid of some the back-court log jam.
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Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2013, 01:06:36 PM »

Offline Bombastic Jones

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Fair enough.  I like Dragic more than Teague, but understand where you are coming from.  I like Dudley and Williams a lot too.  I even like Johnson as a project.  But I like our present roster more than:

Teague/ Barbosa
Bradley/ Williams / JET
Pierce / Dudley
Green / Wilcox
KG / Collins / Fab


Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2013, 01:39:53 PM »

Offline wahz

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why would we trade Rondo for something that doesn't help much this year? As in not getting a good big guy who probably stays? We have 2 good wings,(PP, and Uncle Jeff), and guards. 2 of those guards aren't old at all, and Barbosa is still about as fast as anyone in the league.

We really don't NOW need a guard or a wing in return. We DO need at least one good big in return, if the idea is to trade Rondo now. If we wait to the off season to trade him, yeah we want to get a PP, and KG and/or Rondo replacement.

It would be ruthless but if the rules allow it I would trade him while injured for an important big. Its got to be a guy who is healthy now and the players would have to say it was ok. I think we could win it this year still and not kill the future.

Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2013, 01:43:29 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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This would have been the go to move had Rondo not gotten hurt.  I think DA knew it.  Unfortunately, it is now too late for this year and next year, KG and PP are another year older.

DA has been trying to sell high on Rondo for years but now one has bitten.  And of course, the better we do, the more his trade value goes down.

What could we get for Rondo? Name names please.
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2013, 01:50:05 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Before Rondo got hurt, I was secretly hoping that DA could trade him to make the team better.  While many around here have an over-inflated view on what we could get for him, I thought at minimum we could get a starting caliber big man (not necessarily a star).  Unfortunately DA was not able to find a match (maybe because other teams did not value Rondo that highly?). 

Before the injury, I'd have thought that Rondo might be able to bring someone like Cousins; a talented head-case that isn't a sure thing.  Now, even after he recovers, I really have no idea. 

Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2013, 01:55:20 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Fair enough.  I like Dragic more than Teague, but understand where you are coming from.  I like Dudley and Williams a lot too.  I even like Johnson as a project.  But I like our present roster more than:

Teague/ Barbosa
Bradley/ Williams / JET
Pierce / Dudley
Green / Wilcox
KG / Collins / Fab
I think that team is much closer to a title than what we have now and also has a lot more certainty going forward (of course Williams isn't playing this year and you don't have Johnson).  I'd probably start Dudley with Teague and Pierce and then have Bradley be the first sub (for any of the three). Clearly could use another big, maybe you swap out Terry for Frye (or Beasley) from Phoenix, which gives you some more size for pretty much the same contract.

And I have no idea why anyone would want Dragic over Teague.  Dragic is 2 years older, a worse shooter (from everywhere on the floor), a worse passer, a worse defender (though neither is good), and only a slightly better rebounder (mostly because he is 2 inches taller). The only real advantage you have with Dragic is you know his contract for 4 years, while Teague is expiring.
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Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2013, 02:20:24 PM »

Offline Bombastic Jones

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Fair enough.  I like Dragic more than Teague, but understand where you are coming from.  I like Dudley and Williams a lot too.  I even like Johnson as a project.  But I like our present roster more than:

Teague/ Barbosa
Bradley/ Williams / JET
Pierce / Dudley
Green / Wilcox
KG / Collins / Fab
I think that team is much closer to a title than what we have now and also has a lot more certainty going forward (of course Williams isn't playing this year and you don't have Johnson).  I'd probably start Dudley with Teague and Pierce and then have Bradley be the first sub (for any of the three). Clearly could use another big, maybe you swap out Terry for Frye (or Beasley) from Phoenix, which gives you some more size for pretty much the same contract.

And I have no idea why anyone would want Dragic over Teague.  Dragic is 2 years older, a worse shooter (from everywhere on the floor), a worse passer, a worse defender (though neither is good), and only a slightly better rebounder (mostly because he is 2 inches taller). The only real advantage you have with Dragic is you know his contract for 4 years, while Teague is expiring.

I think Dragic is a better defender and better at running an offense.  I think their stats are comparable with shooting % and asst to turn over.  I see Teague as more of a scorer who gets out in transition better.  I would be happy with either on our team.  I would only give up Rondo for either of them if we got a good big man in return.  I think either plus marginal upgrade on the wing isnt worth trading an all-star point guard for.  But I respect your opinion.

Re: Trade Rondo for championship
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2013, 02:31:10 PM »

Offline alajet

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If I were a GM for a rebuilding team you can bet I would have already called about Rondo. I'd like to strike a deal with Detroit if I could. Rondo for Drummond, Calderon and a pick. I think it would have to be 2 separate trades but I'd probably trade Rondo for a center prospect like Drummond and a pick. Detroit obviously gets the better of the talent deal but the C's start rebuilding in a big way and don't hurt this years roster any more than it has been already. Here's another idea:

KG/Barbosa to LAC for Bledsoe/Jordon
Rondo to DET for Drummond/Calderon and 1st
Pierce to Chicago for Boozer and the 1st (from CHA)
JET/Melo to Memphis for Wroten/Allen

That outs all of our veteran leadership on long contracts and ins Bledsoe/Jordon/Drummond/Boozer/Wroten plus two 1st (Allen/Calderon are on expirings). I honestly can't tell if this is just me overvaluing our assets or not. Chicago would definitely do it though. Shedding Boozer and waiving Pierce saves them for years to come. LAC would be a tough sell for a rental in KG. Detroit is probably 50/50 and Memphis probably says no. A girl can dream though :)
why on earth would Detroit trade Drummond for Rondo?

Why would Chicago trade for Pierce when they have Deng, and give up a 1st to do it?

Why would Memphis give up Allen for Terry's awful contract (and play)?

I think the Clippers would do that trade, but why would Boston?  Jordan is not worth his contract and isn't the type of player you acquire to rebuild.

Bledsoe/Jordan is a pretty strong young package, I'd say. Anything better won't be coming this way through a trade within the current roster.

 

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