Author Topic: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go  (Read 8112 times)

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Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2013, 06:45:46 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Send Pierce to the mavs for Mayo and Kaveman

He deserves a chance at a ring. Send him to warriors with a returning bogut or to the clippers.

he already got a ring, he's not Barkley or Nash

It's a respect thing. Plus I can see trade packages that are better and from better teams.

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'16 1st - best of SAC & LAC
'17 1st - SAC (DAL swap), MIA

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2013, 06:48:27 PM »

Offline blink

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If Ainge blows it up, it'll be the most idiotic move of his career as a GM.

this is the 2nd post of yours that I 100% agree with.  We don't get value back, we just throw away the season instead of going down swinging.  Lets just play out the string, make changes over the summer if need be.

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2013, 06:50:56 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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So you are saying without Rondo they still have enough talent to win? Win what? Win the 8th seed in the playoffs? They have 4 journeyman guards, two aging, former superstars, a power forward who can't get out of his own way, a small forward who had a great game today, but who has underachieved his entire career, as PF/center who is always injured, and a rookie PF who has tremendous potential. A decent team, but nothing to write home about.

The big problem here is that everybody on this board grossly overvalues Rondo.

Everybody looks at Rondo's individual numbers as a reason why he is irreplacable - pointing to all of his assists and his triple doubles as reasons why we have no hope without him. 

The thing is Rondo just had two triple doubles in a row, and we lost both games.

When Rondo has huge games this season, it hasn't necessarilly resulted in us getting wins. We get wins when our other guys play well.  We get wins when we play hardcore, suffocating defense (like we did tonight) for an entire game.  We get wins when everybody on our team contributes offensively.

No I'm not saying we're better off without Rondo, but I don't necessarilly believe we are much (if any) worse without him either.

We beat Miami today in double OT without Rondo.  Let's be honest - do you believe this would have been a blowout if we had him?  I don't.  I believe the game would have been just as hard fought regardless, and we still would have struggled to win.

I believe that the defensive pressure of Bradley + Lee against Wade today was huge, and at least as valuable to us as any of Rondo's assists.

I believe that Jeff Green's defense on Lebron was the difference between him scoring 34 points and him scoring 45 points (in the 52 minutes he played).

I believe it was Green who took a huge charge on Wade near the end of the game, a play that could have been the difference in the game.

I believe it was a combination of KG and Pierce who hit the two key baskets down the stretch which essentially won us this game.

I believe it was Terry who calmly hit all of those clutch free throws to keep the stop Miami from building a lead.

I believe it was Barbosa who came out and put on a nice scoring run when it looked like Miami were about to run away with the game.

What I'm saying is Basketball is a team game.  Last season we went deep in the playoffs, and while KG and Rondo had a lot of huge games to take us there, just as many of those games were won with the defense and effort of Bradley, Dooling, Pietrus and Marquis. 

How many games did the Lakers win in the past off big clutch shots from role players like Robert Horry and Derek Fisher?  Guys who on paper were practically end of bench guys, but they hit the big shots when it counted.

In 2008, how many of those games were won due to big plays by guys like Posey, House, Powe and PJ Brown?  You know, back in the days before Rondo was the Rondo we know today.

When teams win games everybody gives credit to the stars, but so often it's the role players who do the little things (set good screens, rebound, play tough D, etc) who impact the game just as much.

All of these 'journeyman' comments add up to nothing, because the value of this team is not in each indivuduals superstar talent, it's in the talent of this unit as a whole.  The way eveybody plays together as a team.

Did the Piston's have more talent when they won their most recent championship than we do right now?  Was Wallace at his peak any better than KG now?  Was Hamilton any better then Pierce is now?  Was Billups impact the game any more on offense than Bradley and Lee do right now on defense?  Was Prince any more talented than Jeff Green when he plays as he did today?

The potential is there, that's all I'm saying.  We can still be competitive as we are, but if DA could pull of a trade that brings in a strong scorer (Reddick, Nayo, etc) then that could transform us into a pretty deadly team.   

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2013, 06:59:46 PM »

Offline norrellsul

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We have to ride this thing out and evaluate what we have. If the C's end up having a better record with Rondo out, we need to trade Rondo for whatever value he has left. He might be the only player in the history of the NBA to average double digit assists for a season and make his teammates worse.

We can't trade Pierce or KG. They are the heart and soul of the Cs. They are the Celtics brand, our identity. Free agents are attracted to this identity and take pay cuts in order be part of something. That's what happened with free agents this summer and it's the only way you can compete in the NBA today.

On another note, I bet Pierce gets picked as the alternate for the all-star game, only appropriate.

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2013, 07:00:01 PM »

Offline blink

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So you are saying without Rondo they still have enough talent to win? Win what? Win the 8th seed in the playoffs? They have 4 journeyman guards, two aging, former superstars, a power forward who can't get out of his own way, a small forward who had a great game today, but who has underachieved his entire career, as PF/center who is always injured, and a rookie PF who has tremendous potential. A decent team, but nothing to write home about.

The big problem here is that everybody on this board grossly overvalues Rondo.

Everybody looks at Rondo's individual numbers as a reason why he is irreplacable - pointing to all of his assists and his triple doubles as reasons why we have no hope without him. 

The thing is Rondo just had two triple doubles in a row, and we lost both games.

When Rondo has huge games this season, it hasn't necessarilly resulted in us getting wins. We get wins when our other guys play well.  We get wins when we play hardcore, suffocating defense (like we did tonight) for an entire game.  We get wins when everybody on our team contributes offensively.

No I'm not saying we're better off without Rondo, but I don't necessarilly believe we are much (if any) worse without him either.

We beat Miami today in double OT without Rondo.  Let's be honest - do you believe this would have been a blowout if we had him?  I don't.  I believe the game would have been just as hard fought regardless, and we still would have struggled to win.

I believe that the defensive pressure of Bradley + Lee against Wade today was huge, and at least as valuable to us as any of Rondo's assists.

I believe that Jeff Green's defense on Lebron was the difference between him scoring 34 points and him scoring 45 points (in the 52 minutes he played).

I believe it was Green who took a huge charge on Wade near the end of the game, a play that could have been the difference in the game.

I believe it was a combination of KG and Pierce who hit the two key baskets down the stretch which essentially won us this game.

I believe it was Terry who calmly hit all of those clutch free throws to keep the stop Miami from building a lead.

I believe it was Barbosa who came out and put on a nice scoring run when it looked like Miami were about to run away with the game.

What I'm saying is Basketball is a team game.  Last season we went deep in the playoffs, and while KG and Rondo had a lot of huge games to take us there, just as many of those games were won with the defense and effort of Bradley, Dooling, Pietrus and Marquis. 

How many games did the Lakers win in the past off big clutch shots from role players like Robert Horry and Derek Fisher?  Guys who on paper were practically end of bench guys, but they hit the big shots when it counted.

In 2008, how many of those games were won due to big plays by guys like Posey, House, Powe and PJ Brown?  You know, back in the days before Rondo was the Rondo we know today.

When teams win games everybody gives credit to the stars, but so often it's the role players who do the little things (set good screens, rebound, play tough D, etc) who impact the game just as much.

All of these 'journeyman' comments add up to nothing, because the value of this team is not in each indivuduals superstar talent, it's in the talent of this unit as a whole.  The way eveybody plays together as a team.

Did the Piston's have more talent when they won their most recent championship than we do right now?  Was Wallace at his peak any better than KG now?  Was Hamilton any better then Pierce is now?  Was Billups impact the game any more on offense than Bradley and Lee do right now on defense?  Was Prince any more talented than Jeff Green when he plays as he did today?

The potential is there, that's all I'm saying.  We can still be competitive as we are, but if DA could pull of a trade that brings in a strong scorer (Reddick, Nayo, etc) then that could transform us into a pretty deadly team.

I think this is a great post.  I think the initial shock of losing Rondo for the season pushes everyone into blow it up mode.  I don't think DA will just throw a fire sale.  Did anyone see the game today?  We played well.  Maybe the best def. game of the year?

Blowing it up just doesn't make sense.  KG / PP are here for the rest of the year.  They might both hang it up after this year, just hard to tell.  I say lets get over the shock of losing Rajon, and see how the guys respond. 

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2013, 07:02:00 PM »

Offline Geo123

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Quote
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
GM Ainge on Celts direction: "You can't just philosophically say, 'We're going to do 'this.' You have to tell me what opportunities we have"

Doesn't say much, but sound like he is open to trading PP and KG if the right package comes along , which I assume is Expiring contracts and players on rookie deal or draft picks

Clippers and Spurs make some since if you can get back Jordan and/or Bledsoe from the clips ,or Splitter from the spurs.

There is no way the Clippers trade Bledsoe without having Paul signed, end of story.  Plus they aren't trading Jordan and Bledsoe for KG.

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2013, 07:04:32 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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Hopefully he is committed to blowing this up and going towards a youth movement. I'm ready for a lineup like...

Bradley
Lee?
Green
Sully
Melo

or at the least...

Bradley
Lee?
Green
Sully
KG

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2013, 07:08:02 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Pierce and KG represent some of the shortest-term financial obligations on the roster. To rebuild, you don't trade those contracts. You trade your longest-term contracts.

Toward that end, Green, Terry, Bass, and Lee would be the ones to go in a rebuild. Pierce and KG would retire after next season, and Ainge would go into the summer of 2014 with a rehabbed Rondo, Bradley, Sullinger, and Melo -- assuming those guys haven't been included as sweeteners to unload the ballast contracts of the others -- and a collection of accumulated draft picks and cap space that could be leveraged in trades to acquire more assets or signing impact free agents outright.
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Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2013, 07:08:38 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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Team will put up a valiant effort but go out in the playoffs with pride. Focus on getting Rondo healthy.

In a strange way it might be good for the team. The pressure is off to make short-term moves that will not help us in order to compete for a championship. KG and PP will retire soon and we will have cap space and young pieces to make big moves. I'd like to see Bradley and Sully start for the rest of the year to either build their trade value or determine they're pieces to a future contender. There's no one worth tanking for this year, but maybe next year with Wiggins and Parker probably there (both franchisers IMHO). Build Green's value. We'll be fine, just need to keep building our pantry..

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2013, 07:09:32 PM »

Offline Who

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Pierce and KG represent some of the shortest-term financial obligations on the roster. To rebuild, you don't trade those contracts. You trade your longest-term contracts.

Toward that end, Green, Terry, Bass, and Lee would be the ones to go in a rebuild. Pierce and KG would retire after next season, and Ainge would go into the summer of 2014 with a rehabbed Rondo, Bradley, Sullinger, and Melo -- assuming those guys haven't been included as sweeteners to unload the ballast contracts of the others -- and a collection of accumulated draft picks and cap space that could be leveraged in trades to acquire more assets or signing impact free agents outright.

Trade 'em all = KG and Pierce + the role players; Bass, Terry, Lee, Green.

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2013, 07:12:51 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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If Ainge blows it up, it'll be the most idiotic move of his career as a GM.

and why's that? the chance at a title is clearly over, what's the point of keeping them together ?

If you insist on trading them, I think you get better value if you wait until the off-season and teams have more flexibility to take on contracts of the size that KG and PP have.  I think that Bass, Green, Lee, and Terry will have higher trade value if you wait until they have a year left on their contracts.

I actually think that Rondo returning, a solid MLE free agent big, and a surprise contribution from Fab Melo, a rookie, or some minimum salary pick up would have this team a reasonable long shot contender.  It's very iffy, but it probably provides a better path to reloading than trying to get bad quickly, which means crafting a roster with talent similar to Orlando or Toronto this season by jettisoning as many serviceable players as you can.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2013, 07:23:18 PM »

Offline feckless

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Paul and Kevin have earned a choice --stay here and play it out or go to a contender.
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2013, 07:40:46 PM »

Offline galvinx10

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Pierce for Splitter and Stephen Jackson (expiring contract) works. I don't know if the Spurs would do that, but San Antonio is one of very few contenders that I would be okay with Pierce playing for

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2013, 07:43:36 PM »

Offline vinnie

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So you are saying without Rondo they still have enough talent to win? Win what? Win the 8th seed in the playoffs? They have 4 journeyman guards, two aging, former superstars, a power forward who can't get out of his own way, a small forward who had a great game today, but who has underachieved his entire career, as PF/center who is always injured, and a rookie PF who has tremendous potential. A decent team, but nothing to write home about.

The big problem here is that everybody on this board grossly overvalues Rondo.

Everybody looks at Rondo's individual numbers as a reason why he is irreplacable - pointing to all of his assists and his triple doubles as reasons why we have no hope without him. 

The thing is Rondo just had two triple doubles in a row, and we lost both games.

When Rondo has huge games this season, it hasn't necessarilly resulted in us getting wins. We get wins when our other guys play well.  We get wins when we play hardcore, suffocating defense (like we did tonight) for an entire game.  We get wins when everybody on our team contributes offensively.

No I'm not saying we're better off without Rondo, but I don't necessarilly believe we are much (if any) worse without him either.

We beat Miami today in double OT without Rondo.  Let's be honest - do you believe this would have been a blowout if we had him?  I don't.  I believe the game would have been just as hard fought regardless, and we still would have struggled to win.

I believe that the defensive pressure of Bradley + Lee against Wade today was huge, and at least as valuable to us as any of Rondo's assists.

I believe that Jeff Green's defense on Lebron was the difference between him scoring 34 points and him scoring 45 points (in the 52 minutes he played).

I believe it was Green who took a huge charge on Wade near the end of the game, a play that could have been the difference in the game.

I believe it was a combination of KG and Pierce who hit the two key baskets down the stretch which essentially won us this game.

I believe it was Terry who calmly hit all of those clutch free throws to keep the stop Miami from building a lead.

I believe it was Barbosa who came out and put on a nice scoring run when it looked like Miami were about to run away with the game.

What I'm saying is Basketball is a team game.  Last season we went deep in the playoffs, and while KG and Rondo had a lot of huge games to take us there, just as many of those games were won with the defense and effort of Bradley, Dooling, Pietrus and Marquis. 

How many games did the Lakers win in the past off big clutch shots from role players like Robert Horry and Derek Fisher?  Guys who on paper were practically end of bench guys, but they hit the big shots when it counted.

In 2008, how many of those games were won due to big plays by guys like Posey, House, Powe and PJ Brown?  You know, back in the days before Rondo was the Rondo we know today.

When teams win games everybody gives credit to the stars, but so often it's the role players who do the little things (set good screens, rebound, play tough D, etc) who impact the game just as much.

All of these 'journeyman' comments add up to nothing, because the value of this team is not in each indivuduals superstar talent, it's in the talent of this unit as a whole.  The way eveybody plays together as a team.

Did the Piston's have more talent when they won their most recent championship than we do right now?  Was Wallace at his peak any better than KG now?  Was Hamilton any better then Pierce is now?  Was Billups impact the game any more on offense than Bradley and Lee do right now on defense?  Was Prince any more talented than Jeff Green when he plays as he did today?

The potential is there, that's all I'm saying.  We can still be competitive as we are, but if DA could pull of a trade that brings in a strong scorer (Reddick, Nayo, etc) then that could transform us into a pretty deadly team.

IT. WAS. ONE. GAME. They were not good enough to win it all before the injury and they are much less likely to win it after the injury. They should still hold on to the 8th slot in the playoffs, however.

Re: Danny Ainge on the Direction the C's will go
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2013, 07:44:02 PM »

Offline kgainez

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As it was said in another thread by another poster:

With or without Rondo, we were looking pretty sleek at a championship run. We were 20-23 before today. Why blow it up now? Why not blow it up when were 14-16? Why not sign someone then?

We are down one guard. We have like a million on this roster who have been underperforming or underutilized. At the very least, DA should let them COMPETE and go down fighting.


I also don't think KG and PP will go easily. So...there's that.

 

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