Author Topic: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?  (Read 3262 times)

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Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2013, 04:26:04 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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Both Doc and Rondo are overrated.

The 2008 championship squad was stacked. Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supported the starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. I believe many coaches would have won a title with that many qualified subs for every position. If anything, our sixth man Big Game James Posey, deserves a heck of a lot of credit of his untiring hustle and clutch plays during the '08 run.

And finally, when the shots are falling, then Rondo has his monster games of finding the open man for the high assists, or driving in the lane for a mini-dream shake layup. The was the story of the last three playoff runs but just as in the Jim O'Brien world of the three point bombers, if those shots don't fall, then the entire offense becomes a sludge-fest with Rondo at the helm.


Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2013, 04:32:04 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Both Doc and Rondo are overrated.

The 2008 championship squad was stacked. Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supported the starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. I believe many coaches would have won a title with that many qualified subs for every position. If anything, our sixth man Big Game James Posey, deserves a heck of a lot of credit of his untiring hustle and clutch plays during the '08 run.

And finally, when the shots are falling, then Rondo has his monster games of finding the open man for the high assists, or driving in the lane for a mini-dream shake layup. The was the story of the last three playoff runs but just as in the Jim O'Brien world of the three point bombers, if those shots don't fall, then the entire offense becomes a sludge-fest with Rondo at the helm.

  I don't think an offense looking bad if nobody's making shots is in any way specific to Rondo-led teams.

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2013, 04:44:24 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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And finally, when the shots are falling, then Rondo has his monster games of finding the open man for the high assists, or driving in the lane for a mini-dream shake layup. The was the story of the last three playoff runs but just as in the Jim O'Brien world of the three point bombers, if those shots don't fall, then the entire offense becomes a sludge-fest with Rondo at the helm.

  I don't think an offense looking bad if nobody's making shots is in any way specific to Rondo-led teams.

When the shots don't fall ... you take it to the hole, or you help others, to take it to the paint by setting screens & getting in an opponent's face. The problem is that Rondo's game doesn't adapt in that situation, he still looks for that assist during a poor shooting night. Then, you have a game, lopsided by poor shot attempts.



Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2013, 08:15:51 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Keeping it simple.

I hope we do that after Rondo comes back.

If this continues Rondo won't be here next year. All the things this team has been doing well over the past three games CAN'T be done with Rondo. He slows things down, he gambles and relaxes on defense, he doesn't trust his teammates to handle the ball.

I'm with those who think it's Doc's playbook that dictated the Rondo-Celtic playstyle, not Rondo.

I don't think so at all.  You think Doc wanted only Rondo to have the ball all the time?  To use up so many possessions dribbling around while his teammates stand around doing nothing?  To not take advantage of the new speed he had on the wing by not passing the ball up ahead? If he did, he's one of the most incompetent, feckless coaches who has ever existed.  I think his biggest problem was that he couldn't rein in the ball hogging monster he created in Rondo.  He just let too much slide. 

I remember the first game Rondo returned from his two game suspension, he played the first quarter like I always hoped he would: throwing the ball up ahead, attacking, not being a ball stopper. I thought maybe he had learned something by watching his teammates play without him.  All that went away after his first rest as he went back to hogging the ball.

Doc is already on record as saying hes the reason rondo has the ball as much as he does so you can't deny its doc.

So if Rondo wanted to play differently, like say, throwing the ball up ahead once in awhile, or creating good ball movement in half court sets, Doc would have put a stop to it?  I don't think Doc is blameless in this matter. He saw the faults in his team and couldn't fix it.  I think his biggest failing was being blinded by Rondo's individual brilliance.

We had Rondo in the pre-season too but the team looked like what it is now - push the ball, distribute the ball, play hard D, no overly complicated plays.

You can extrapolate what you like as to what this says about Doc and/or Rondo.

At the very least this shows that Rondo is capable of existing (and doing well) in a non-ball-dominant offense (to those who said he can't).

It's kind of frustrating we went away from that style of play (no matter whose fault it is).

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2013, 09:27:25 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Two things have disappointed me about Doc this year.

One, Doc has not found a way to use Terry as a potent offensive weapon. Some of this may be that Rondo and Terry don't mesh, but it's Doc's job to fix that.

Second, we are still incredibly one-dimensional at the end of games. That Pierce high screen play is no longer effective, because (a) defenses anticipate it and (b) Pierce is not the player he was a few years ago. We have new personnel, but Doc hasn't devised any new (effective) end of game sets.

I think that if Doc had done a better job with just these two things, we would probably be 5 games better than we are now.

The Rondo injury will be interesting, because it presents an opportunity for Doc to adapt. We'll see what happens.

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2013, 09:58:21 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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Second, we are still incredibly one-dimensional at the end of games. That Pierce high screen play is no longer effective, because (a) defenses anticipate it and (b) Pierce is not the player he was a few years ago. We have new personnel, but Doc hasn't devised any new (effective) end of game sets.

Problem is that there's no excuse for this. Everyone knows that Pierce was entering the twilight of his career, last season. Doc should have thought about this issue back in 2010, not 2012. And thus, have already devised game sets to take into account the changing players on the roster. Doc is not a chess player, like Riley or Pop, he's a one trick pony and he continues in that vein.

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2013, 10:43:46 PM »

Offline OttawaCeltic

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Both Doc and Rondo are overrated.

The 2008 championship squad was stacked. Posey, PJ Brown, Powe, House, Cassell, TA, Big Baby, and for kicks, Scalabrine, supported the starting five of PP, RA, KP, KG, and Rondo. I believe many coaches would have won a title with that many qualified subs for every position. If anything, our sixth man Big Game James Posey, deserves a heck of a lot of credit of his untiring hustle and clutch plays during the '08 run.

And finally, when the shots are falling, then Rondo has his monster games of finding the open man for the high assists, or driving in the lane for a mini-dream shake layup. The was the story of the last three playoff runs but just as in the Jim O'Brien world of the three point bombers, if those shots don't fall, then the entire offense becomes a sludge-fest with Rondo at the helm.

Tru dat, Tru dat. I should make a thread upon this statement...
Jameer an elite PG?Please, ask that to his garbage highlights.



PAUL PIERCE, NO!

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2013, 10:58:02 PM »

Online Clench123

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Doc's post game interview

Re: How well Jason Terry and Leandro Barbosa played together:
"We kind of let them play. I called the one time-out and they kept asking, ‘What are we running?’ I said, ‘I have no idea. Just go out and space the floor and play. And play through it. And I think Jason loves to play that way; I think LB clearly likes to play that way, and they just read each other extremely well. We try to keep them on the floor at the same time."


this has to be the comment of the year. haha

Is this all this guy says at huddles??

All kidding aside, without rondo it doesn't have to be rocket science anymore. Guys have so much freedom out there and they are executing harmoniously

That is a great coaching strategy in case you don't know

yeah, sad he did not let them do that when rondo was playing huh?

Yea, like we know about everything he says in all the huddles

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2013, 11:42:32 PM »

Offline BballTim

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And finally, when the shots are falling, then Rondo has his monster games of finding the open man for the high assists, or driving in the lane for a mini-dream shake layup. The was the story of the last three playoff runs but just as in the Jim O'Brien world of the three point bombers, if those shots don't fall, then the entire offense becomes a sludge-fest with Rondo at the helm.

  I don't think an offense looking bad if nobody's making shots is in any way specific to Rondo-led teams.

When the shots don't fall ... you take it to the hole, or you help others, to take it to the paint by setting screens & getting in an opponent's face. The problem is that Rondo's game doesn't adapt in that situation, he still looks for that assist during a poor shooting night. Then, you have a game, lopsided by poor shot attempts.

  You're saying it's generally the job of the point guard to set picks so other players can get to the rim?

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2013, 11:50:13 PM »

Offline Galeto

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Keeping it simple.

I hope we do that after Rondo comes back.

If this continues Rondo won't be here next year. All the things this team has been doing well over the past three games CAN'T be done with Rondo. He slows things down, he gambles and relaxes on defense, he doesn't trust his teammates to handle the ball.

I'm with those who think it's Doc's playbook that dictated the Rondo-Celtic playstyle, not Rondo.

I don't think so at all.  You think Doc wanted only Rondo to have the ball all the time?  To use up so many possessions dribbling around while his teammates stand around doing nothing?  To not take advantage of the new speed he had on the wing by not passing the ball up ahead? If he did, he's one of the most incompetent, feckless coaches who has ever existed.  I think his biggest problem was that he couldn't rein in the ball hogging monster he created in Rondo.  He just let too much slide. 

I remember the first game Rondo returned from his two game suspension, he played the first quarter like I always hoped he would: throwing the ball up ahead, attacking, not being a ball stopper. I thought maybe he had learned something by watching his teammates play without him.  All that went away after his first rest as he went back to hogging the ball.

Doc is already on record as saying hes the reason rondo has the ball as much as he does so you can't deny its doc.

So if Rondo wanted to play differently, like say, throwing the ball up ahead once in awhile, or creating good ball movement in half court sets, Doc would have put a stop to it?  I don't think Doc is blameless in this matter. He saw the faults in his team and couldn't fix it.  I think his biggest failing was being blinded by Rondo's individual brilliance.

We had Rondo in the pre-season too but the team looked like what it is now - push the ball, distribute the ball, play hard D, no overly complicated plays.

You can extrapolate what you like as to what this says about Doc and/or Rondo.

At the very least this shows that Rondo is capable of existing (and doing well) in a non-ball-dominant offense (to those who said he can't).

It's kind of frustrating we went away from that style of play (no matter whose fault it is).

You're referencing pre-season?  Even taken at face value, I don't doubt that Rondo has the ability to be an effective uptempo decision maker.  He just doesn't.  In his first few seasons, he didn't have the status to hold onto the ball and kill ball movement so he didn't.  I really liked that version of Rondo.  Ever since he's been given complete freedom to do whatever he wants, he's become the biggest ball hog in the game. 

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2013, 11:57:38 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Keeping it simple.

I hope we do that after Rondo comes back.

If this continues Rondo won't be here next year. All the things this team has been doing well over the past three games CAN'T be done with Rondo. He slows things down, he gambles and relaxes on defense, he doesn't trust his teammates to handle the ball.

I'm with those who think it's Doc's playbook that dictated the Rondo-Celtic playstyle, not Rondo.

I don't think so at all.  You think Doc wanted only Rondo to have the ball all the time?  To use up so many possessions dribbling around while his teammates stand around doing nothing?  To not take advantage of the new speed he had on the wing by not passing the ball up ahead? If he did, he's one of the most incompetent, feckless coaches who has ever existed.  I think his biggest problem was that he couldn't rein in the ball hogging monster he created in Rondo.  He just let too much slide. 

I remember the first game Rondo returned from his two game suspension, he played the first quarter like I always hoped he would: throwing the ball up ahead, attacking, not being a ball stopper. I thought maybe he had learned something by watching his teammates play without him.  All that went away after his first rest as he went back to hogging the ball.

Doc is already on record as saying hes the reason rondo has the ball as much as he does so you can't deny its doc.

So if Rondo wanted to play differently, like say, throwing the ball up ahead once in awhile, or creating good ball movement in half court sets, Doc would have put a stop to it?  I don't think Doc is blameless in this matter. He saw the faults in his team and couldn't fix it.  I think his biggest failing was being blinded by Rondo's individual brilliance.

  I can't believe that anyone who watches games on a regular basis claims that Rondo never throws the ball up ahead in transition. Even the people who don't like Rondo should have seen all the turnovers he's had this year from trying to force passes to players who are racing towards the basket.

Re: Who said Doc isn't a great coach?
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2013, 01:28:51 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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  • You say when......
He isn't a great coach. He is a cheerleader.....an assistant, and good #2......KG runs this team....doc cannot tell them what to do, doc hated rebounders for the longest time...didn't understand the value......nor that rebounding is the #1 form of defense......lost tony allen in place of marquis danials....who is also gone..because he was not too good....look at TA now......remember when TA and rondo would run the floor together........who does that now...? No one.....Doc used rondo wrong...doc didn't coach or run rondo, pp, kg......ray....doc only dogs out guys he didn't care for...and that was too many....has a closed mind about rookies, overplays the old guard, always has, always will.....and you know it....should sign birdman.....put kg where he WANTS TO  BE...at forward......

 

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