Author Topic: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!  (Read 2265 times)

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Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« on: January 27, 2013, 09:57:29 AM »

Offline eugen

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In this critical situation, we see everyday people talking about Doc and players, blaming them for the critical situation. But how about work done by DA??? As a matter of fact:

1- he did not find replace for Perk and Ray
2- from 2008 this team did not get any big player on order to hope for the future of the team(see LAL, Miami,OKC,Dallas)
3- he did not have clear ideas about how he will construct the future, when KG and PP will retire
4- at some point, he did mistakes after mistakes on treating players, for example Ray. Remember that Doc did not like to send out Ray (maybe and Perk)
5- most critical issue: he did not show till now, how will resolve the problems

In my opinion DA have to go...Incompetent!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 10:08:59 AM by eugen »

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 10:10:55 AM »

Online Who

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I think Ainge did a good job in the summer acquiring talent but things haven't worked out. I think he'll be judged now on whether or not he can make some mid-season moves to better balance the roster.

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 10:13:47 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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1.  I think Lee and Terry for were for Ray, they have not panned out.  Losing Perk was minimal folks, KG is a better center in every way.   I think the inability of Green to perform consistently is more a problem than losing a one legged center.

2.  He chose to give the old core one more chance.   It failed.

3.  This hasn't happened yet so it's not valid.   I suspect it will be build around Rondo.

4.  This is a business.  We have attracted better free agents under Danny than Chris Wallace.

5.  A trade has to be made or we tank for the lottery.   Those are our options, I don't think staying the course will fix things this year.

DA is not incompetant, he made us relevant again and gave us another title.   He just rode out the old guys too long.   Had he broke up the team when they had value, people would be crying for his head too.   He can't win either way.  I think he has got some good players for where he has picked.   

I much rather have him than you running the team than you.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 10:19:10 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 10:25:37 AM »

Offline OhioGreen

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This off season I would say the VAST majority of C's fans, including myself were lauding heaps of praise on DA for filling out our roster! Nobody expected what has happened so far this season!
GM's usually get all the blame when things go bad, and too little praise when the go well. DA made the C's relevant again, brought us a championship, and hopes for another this year despite great obsticles of the CBA.
Hopefully he can make some moves here quickly that will turn this season around. I blame Doc more for his inability to make these current players jell. Him virtually running Darko out of town sure didn't help either!  We sure could have used him!

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 10:32:05 AM »

Online saltlover

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Ummm.. We were never going to get LeBron, so I don't know why you're comparing him to the Heat.

He tried to replace Ray with Courtney Lee (who has not been part of the problem lately).  Of course, he wanted to resign Ray to begin with.

He had a deal negotiated with David West, which would have really helped the frontcourt, but couldn't get the Hornets to work out a sign-and-trade.

Bradley is definitely helping the future of this team.  He was drafted in 2010, and was clearly a great selection, even if much ofnthe fan-base thought it was terrible.  Last year's draftees look like they could be part of a successful future as well.

Danny's biggest mistake was thinking that last year's team, which went to the conference finals and could or should have gone to the NBA finals, despite being injury-riddled and having no bench, could come back and do the same with essentially the same starting lineup and a new bench.  And for whatever reason (Father Time, last year was a fluke) that simply hasn't worked.  His original plan was to blow it up when KG's contract ended, sign a big free agent and reloa around Rondo, the new signings, and some other young players.  At this point, it looks like he would have been wise to trade Ray and Paul last year, let KG retire, and sign (or trade for) someone this offseason.  But his sight is 20-20, and we did get to the conference finals last year, so who knows which decision was right?

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2013, 10:34:40 AM »

Offline Birdman

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Shouldnt have never made that bad trade with OKC

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2013, 10:42:05 AM »

Offline timpiker

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**** about DA all you want but he's done more with less and more than enough than any GM or human out there...  sorry not going there - DA has more than done his job.

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2013, 10:58:17 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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In this critical situation, we see everyday people talking about Doc and players, blaming them for the critical situation. But how about work done by DA??? As a matter of fact:

1- he did not find replace for Perk and Ray
2- from 2008 this team did not get any big player on order to hope for the future of the team(see LAL, Miami,OKC,Dallas)
3- he did not have clear ideas about how he will construct the future, when KG and PP will retire
4- at some point, he did mistakes after mistakes on treating players, for example Ray. Remember that Doc did not like to send out Ray (maybe and Perk)
5- most critical issue: he did not show till now, how will resolve the problems

In my opinion DA have to go...Incompetent!

1. As described, Green was a replacement for Perk.  Perk had his contract finishing and made it clear he would not re-sign for us with the amount we were able to offer, he wanted more.  If DA made no trade, we would have lost Perk for nothing.  Nobody here can say "why didn't he trade for somebody else" because nobody else here knows what else was on the market at the time.  With JO and Shaq missing much of the season to injury (Perk only just returned about 5 games prior, so there was no indication on how durable he would be).  We needed a healty big, and he got Krstic back in the deal with Green - it was a no brainer trade and anybody with half a brain would have done the same in his position.

Green struggled after the trade being thrown into a new environment with no time to adjust, then the following season he was lost due to a heart problem - hardly something anybody could have predicted for a very fit and athletic 26 year old player.  This year he struggled at the start.  He's still not what we hoped for exactly, but he's definately making improvements - especially in the areas of defense and effort. 

Green won't become an All-Star, but then neither will Perk.  Right now I seriously think we needs Green's scoring potential and defense at the wing position more than we need Perk's interior defense.  We are 8th in the league in defense and about 28th in scoring - do the math.

Ray left without giving us a choice.  Danny offered him a perfectly resonable offer - more than he was worth IMHO.  He ovvered him double what any other team offered him AND a no-trade clause, and he refused it.  That was Ray's choice to make, and Danny had no control over it.  When he refused the deal Danny did very well to acquire Jason Terry, Courtney Lee AND Leandro Barbosa without giving up Rondo or Bradley.  Nobody on earth could have predicted Terry would struggle the way he has offensively.  DA handled both scenarios very well.

2. The team didn't get anyone after 2008 because they never had cap space.  It's like criticising a poor family because they bought a Hyundai instead of a Porsche - you need money to buy assets, and Celtics had no cap space up until this season.  Every year DA did a pretty solid job of bringing in servicable players that cost us next to nothing.

3. How on earth can Danny know when his players will retire?  KG didn't even know HIMSELF whether he would retire until the last minute, so how could DA know the answer to that?  KG got paid $9M per year when he re-signed.  That was a big chunk of Boston's cap space, so whether or not he re-signed was critical to which direction DA would take.  He also never anticipated Ray would leave - he had a plan already to bring in Terry for an instant bench scorer (which we desperately needed - TP for DA) but he was meant to compliment (not replace) Allen.  When Allen left it put the team into shambles because DA had to resort to an emergency replacement plan, and that was Courtney Lee.  Everybody said that Boston had no hope of getting Lee because of their financial situation, so DA did VERY well to pick him up, and even better to add Barbosa in there as well.

4. The whole treatment of Ray is overblown.  The NBA is a business - how many players out there have left their teams in the cold by choosing not to re-sign with them? Does Lebron leaving the Cavs ring a bell?  DA's job is to run a business, and he has to treat it as one by making the moves that seem they will give the team it's best shot to improve and win a title.  If we had a chance to give up Ray and improve our team, then Danny had to take that chance - if he didn't he wouldn't be doing his job.  Ray got upset by this obviously, but that's not DA's problem - he is not a shrink, he's a business man.  Pierce and KG both came up in trade rumours but they stuck around - it is what it is.

5. Again DA is responsble for managing his personnel, and it's his responsiblity to do what he can to improve the team.  Right now I can assure you he is in talks with several other teams, and has several ideas on trades he cn do to improve things.  He's not going to talk bout these ideas because it's bad for business - it's not a public affair.  If he could get a superstar for a dud role player I guarantee you he'd do it, but trades involve two teams...and both teams trade with the intention of receiving some benefit (either future talent, current talent or financial flexibility) so working a magical deal that actually makes us better may not be possible if opposing teams aren't buying what we're selling.


Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2013, 11:01:15 AM »

Offline jbaerg

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DA's decisions are based on the paper, and what his scouts report to him, and often times takes doc's recommendations very seriously. He did everything in his power to make the numbers work.

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2013, 11:01:26 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think Ainge did a good job in the summer acquiring talent but things haven't worked out. I think he'll be judged now on whether or not he can make some mid-season moves to better balance the roster.

Agreed, Danny Ainge will be judged on what happens around the trade deadline, the draft, and the free agency period.  How good a job he does turning this cow-pie into chocolate mousse.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2013, 11:03:13 AM »

Offline ScottHow

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I think Ainge did a good job in the summer acquiring talent

I can agree with this. I think he went wrong when he thought the core talent was elite enough to contend again.

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 11:06:10 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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3- he did not have clear ideas about how he will construct the future, when KG and PP will retire

I think he has clear ideas about how he will construct the future.

I hope he doesn't make a mid-season panic trade.  I suspect it might be best to wait until the off-season before making a major roster move.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2013, 11:10:06 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Shouldnt have never made that bad trade with OKC

Made good sense at the time, and still makes sense in retrospect.

The Celtics would not be in any better shape with post-knee-injury Perkins in place of Jeff Green.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2013, 11:10:14 AM »

Online ImShakHeIsShaq

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In this critical situation, we see everyday people talking about Doc and players, blaming them for the critical situation. But how about work done by DA??? As a matter of fact:

1- he did not find replace for Perk and Ray
2- from 2008 this team did not get any big player on order to hope for the future of the team(see LAL, Miami,OKC,Dallas)
3- he did not have clear ideas about how he will construct the future, when KG and PP will retire
4- at some point, he did mistakes after mistakes on treating players, for example Ray. Remember that Doc did not like to send out Ray (maybe and Perk)
5- most critical issue: he did not show till now, how will resolve the problems

In my opinion DA have to go...Incompetent!

1) Ray- Courtney Lee.

Perk- Kristic, Shaq, and JO. Tell me, what money/players did we have to give up/use to do better? Oh I guess you think he's playing with monopoly money.

2) Future- Jeff Green, AB, Sully, Melo, RR, Bass, and Lee! LOL again, MONEY! You think you can just pluck stars out of thin air? Who did we have that we could trade for a "star"?

Now let's break down the teams you mentioned;

-Mia, that organization did LITTLE to get those players! IT was mostly the Little 3 who did the work, they were 3 MAX level players who chose to take very little money so they could all be signed, they chose to go there b/c Wade was already there (drafted from a good lotto pick b/c they SUCKED) and it's located IN MIAMI! All the organization did was tank and give players away for scraps!

-Lakers, they already had a 100y.o. Kobe so of course add that to the location and the willingness to spend w/e and you can get a player like Dwight who forced his way out of Orlando to go there. So, Dwight is the ONLY piece they have for the future and it's not like they did something amazing to get him, he pulled a Melo for them... they gave up Bynum who they had b/c they SUCKED their way into picking him. In fact, I would say that if LA didn't have endless money and a great location where players love to live, they would be in worse shape than us!

-OKC, well they sucked into and traded (an "old" but still good player in Ray), which they turned into some really good picks! Their organization actually deserves most of the credit b/c they chose right and it is rare to pick as well as they did so many times in succession but they did (Well KD was a lock so w/e and he was the Celtics... hurts but w/e, KG wasn't coming w/o Ray and we have the chip, so as good as KD is, you take the chip b/c he isn't guaranteed one)!

-Dallas, what do they have exactly? Dirk (who is old and has bad wheels... still good of course) and a bunch of cap space. They actually have NOTHING for the future... if they don't coax a good player (Howard's gonna take LA's money and CP3 aint leaving either). So right now, Dallas is in worse shape than us for the future b/c all they have right now is hopes and dreams (we have actual young and good/great players all while keeping our foot on "win now mode")!

3) See the people I named in #2

4) LOL the Ray situation had little to do with Danny... Doc chose to bench Ray for AB and RR and him didn't see eye to eye, how is that on Danny? We didn't have the money to pay what Ray wanted (which was absurd anyway, he chose to give them a price he knew they couldn't accept)! Perk was a decision that Doc agreed with and so did the players... they didn't want to pay what Perk wanted and I am still glad they didn't! For some reason you think we'd be better off with Perk but in reality, who really knows, we sure would still be in the same predicament money-wise, just replace Green's money with Perk's and nothing changes with not having the funds for Ray!

5) Really? Really? He did everything he could to put a winning product out there given his limitations. It's not easy to win a championship... he did really well this off-season. In fact a lot of people (analyst, were saying we might have the deepest and best set of bench players in the league, right with Clips and Nets)!

Danny may not be the best and he definitely isn't perfect (ad hindsight is 20/20), but he has done excellent considering everything! Not only did he try to give us a "win now" team he also put together a solid group of players to build around for the future!
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Blame players, blame Doc but how about DA?!
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2013, 11:14:43 AM »

Offline eugen

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Ummm.. We were never going to get LeBron, so I don't know why you're comparing him to the Heat.

I am not asking to sign Lebron or Bosh. But, see the players that DA offered to the team in last 3 years. Too old and almost broken players(Rasheed, JoNeal, Shaq, Terry, Collins&co)Seems to have no strategies to move on for the future,considering that big 3 is very close to the retirment.

 

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