Author Topic: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!  (Read 1259 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« on: January 26, 2013, 12:50:20 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
I'm not understanding this notion that we can't win anymore because we have 3 vets (KG, PP, JET) and this is a young man's game...

What are the other 7 or 8 guys for?

Am I wrong to believe that if a running style works for the MAJORITY than we should be running more? I mean the 2nd unit that runs almost always bails us out. Didn't Doc say he wanted to run more??? Why did we run in the preseason, but now we let Rondo dribble the ball out?

Why did Lee only get 25 minutes last night? Why did Jeff only get 30? These guys shot 50% FROM THE FIELD!!!!

At what point will things change? I don't understand what's going on.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 01:15:30 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10413
  • Tommy Points: 810
It's a tough situation for Doc to transition the scoring focus to the younger guys when he has such a long term relationship with Pierce and KG. Trying to do that with Ray and Avery reportedly was what killed his relationship with Ray. I don't know if he has the guts to do it with Paul and KG. It's painfully obvious Pierce isn't the offensive force he used to be, he lost the last 2 games for us. Rondo can take over part of that, but he's not a primary scorer. The focus needs to shift to players like Green, Bradley, Lee, and Sullinger. The vets won't like that though.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2013, 01:27:15 PM »

Offline Pucaccia

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 245
  • Tommy Points: 25
    • 10 Dangerous Mistakes Men Make in Bed
I'm not understanding this notion that we can't win anymore because we have 3 vets (KG, PP, JET) and this is a young man's game...

What are the other 7 or 8 guys for?

Am I wrong to believe that if a running style works for the MAJORITY than we should be running more? I mean the 2nd unit that runs almost always bails us out. Didn't Doc say he wanted to run more??? Why did we run in the preseason, but now we let Rondo dribble the ball out?

Why did Lee only get 25 minutes last night? Why did Jeff only get 30? These guys shot 50% FROM THE FIELD!!!!

At what point will things change? I don't understand what's going on.

You are Correct! There should be one offensive play called R3. Run Rondo Run. Not the Rondo dibble at the top of the arch until the clock hits 10 and then have someone force a shot.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2013, 01:30:34 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11867
  • Tommy Points: 1133
Even with the veterans, there's no excuse for not running. Pierce is good as a trailer, KG runs the floor well for a big even at his age, Bradley gets up the floor well.

The onus to make the team run is always on the PG regardless of who's on the floor.

Not running is not on Doc, if there's one person on our team that's always exhorting players to run, particularly Rondo, it's Doc.

We can say what we want about Doc's system, but our lack of pushing the ball is really not on him in my opinion.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2013, 01:35:55 PM »

Offline jbaerg

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 209
  • Tommy Points: 16
Fuel these guys up, get em running. Fast. Would love to see these guys absolutely kill the other vet teams with speed. I would think that if a relationship problem is what is holding them back, Pierce and KG need to examine themselves and make sure they're doing what is best for the team. This organization believed in them enough to bring them back, the feeling needs to be mutual.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 01:38:47 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2583
  • Tommy Points: 394
Running more creates more fast break opportunities for the other team.

Our defensive philosophy contradicts this. We are consistently at the top of the league in limiting opponents' fast break opportunities.

The focus is on getting everyone back and set in their positions. This allows us to use our superior team defense. Our team defense is much better than our individual defenders.

This is why we don't crash the offensive boards.

So, what you are suggesting is not only an offensive change, it would require a big change in defensive strategy or personnel.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2013, 01:38:59 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22160
  • Tommy Points: 1010
Even with the veterans, there's no excuse for not running. Pierce is good as a trailer, KG runs the floor well for a big even at his age, Bradley gets up the floor well.

The onus to make the team run is always on the PG regardless of who's on the floor.

Not running is not on Doc, if there's one person on our team that's always exhorting players to run, particularly Rondo, it's Doc.

We can say what we want about Doc's system, but our lack of pushing the ball is really not on him in my opinion.

  Okay, so Rondo is supposed to *make* PP and KG run up and down the court? How's that going to work? And is the plan to knock KG from a 5-5-5 plan to a 4-4-4 plan? It's true he runs the floor well for a player his age, it's also true that having him zip up the floor when the defense is back is going to wear him out and lower the minutes he can play.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 01:43:10 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6175
  • Tommy Points: 382
  • Jeff Green
We can run. I like when Lee leads the break and obviously Rondo is great at it too.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 01:46:16 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8307
  • Tommy Points: 835
We are in the top half in the league in fast break points per game.  We do run.  It's a balancing act for this team, but I think we'll find it. 

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2013, 01:54:52 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11867
  • Tommy Points: 1133
Even with the veterans, there's no excuse for not running. Pierce is good as a trailer, KG runs the floor well for a big even at his age, Bradley gets up the floor well.

The onus to make the team run is always on the PG regardless of who's on the floor.

Not running is not on Doc, if there's one person on our team that's always exhorting players to run, particularly Rondo, it's Doc.

We can say what we want about Doc's system, but our lack of pushing the ball is really not on him in my opinion.

  Okay, so Rondo is supposed to *make* PP and KG run up and down the court? How's that going to work? And is the plan to knock KG from a 5-5-5 plan to a 4-4-4 plan? It's true he runs the floor well for a player his age, it's also true that having him zip up the floor when the defense is back is going to wear him out and lower the minutes he can play.

I'll get back to you when Rondo actually runs, and our offense doesn't become effective.

Rondo is not supposed to make PP and KG run... his responsibility is to push the pace with the ball in his hands, the rest is of no concern to him.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2013, 02:17:19 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22160
  • Tommy Points: 1010
Even with the veterans, there's no excuse for not running. Pierce is good as a trailer, KG runs the floor well for a big even at his age, Bradley gets up the floor well.

The onus to make the team run is always on the PG regardless of who's on the floor.

Not running is not on Doc, if there's one person on our team that's always exhorting players to run, particularly Rondo, it's Doc.

We can say what we want about Doc's system, but our lack of pushing the ball is really not on him in my opinion.

  Okay, so Rondo is supposed to *make* PP and KG run up and down the court? How's that going to work? And is the plan to knock KG from a 5-5-5 plan to a 4-4-4 plan? It's true he runs the floor well for a player his age, it's also true that having him zip up the floor when the defense is back is going to wear him out and lower the minutes he can play.

I'll get back to you when Rondo actually runs, and our offense doesn't become effective.

Rondo is not supposed to make PP and KG run... his responsibility is to push the pace with the ball in his hands, the rest is of no concern to him.

  Rondo actually runs when there's a good opportunity to get a transition basket. And Rondo's job is to control the pace. It's his responsibility to push the pace if that's what Doc tells him to do, not if that's what you want him to.

  The Spurs are 2nd in the league in pace, but the teams that won titles all had below average pace. Did the point guards on those title teams fail miserably in their responsibilities to push the pace?

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2013, 02:26:29 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11867
  • Tommy Points: 1133
Even with the veterans, there's no excuse for not running. Pierce is good as a trailer, KG runs the floor well for a big even at his age, Bradley gets up the floor well.

The onus to make the team run is always on the PG regardless of who's on the floor.

Not running is not on Doc, if there's one person on our team that's always exhorting players to run, particularly Rondo, it's Doc.

We can say what we want about Doc's system, but our lack of pushing the ball is really not on him in my opinion.

  Okay, so Rondo is supposed to *make* PP and KG run up and down the court? How's that going to work? And is the plan to knock KG from a 5-5-5 plan to a 4-4-4 plan? It's true he runs the floor well for a player his age, it's also true that having him zip up the floor when the defense is back is going to wear him out and lower the minutes he can play.

I'll get back to you when Rondo actually runs, and our offense doesn't become effective.

Rondo is not supposed to make PP and KG run... his responsibility is to push the pace with the ball in his hands, the rest is of no concern to him.

  Rondo actually runs when there's a good opportunity to get a transition basket. And Rondo's job is to control the pace. It's his responsibility to push the pace if that's what Doc tells him to do, not if that's what you want him to.

  The Spurs are 2nd in the league in pace, but the teams that won titles all had below average pace. Did the point guards on those title teams fail miserably in their responsibilities to push the pace?

Different team, different systems. Parker is better in a half-court system. I have no problem with a slower pace, but Rondo is not the type of PG that should be playing a slow paced game.

They also had a very good low post player in Tim Duncan, and the team had superior ball movement.

And at the end of the day, Doc wants Rondo to push the ball and run, then yeah, Rondo should do it. I don't think the discussion needs to go beyond that.

I'll tell you this much, over the past 2 or so games, I like the pace Rondo has been playing at for the most part. Some let downs in how he runs the offense in the 2nd half, particularly on the fourth, but he's been doing a much better job on pacing us appropriately. I've said as much a couple of times. Problem also is that he's mixed it up with some of the dumbest decision making I've seen from him in his career, to go along with the unnecessary high turnovers.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 02:49:46 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22160
  • Tommy Points: 1010
Even with the veterans, there's no excuse for not running. Pierce is good as a trailer, KG runs the floor well for a big even at his age, Bradley gets up the floor well.

The onus to make the team run is always on the PG regardless of who's on the floor.

Not running is not on Doc, if there's one person on our team that's always exhorting players to run, particularly Rondo, it's Doc.

We can say what we want about Doc's system, but our lack of pushing the ball is really not on him in my opinion.

  Okay, so Rondo is supposed to *make* PP and KG run up and down the court? How's that going to work? And is the plan to knock KG from a 5-5-5 plan to a 4-4-4 plan? It's true he runs the floor well for a player his age, it's also true that having him zip up the floor when the defense is back is going to wear him out and lower the minutes he can play.

I'll get back to you when Rondo actually runs, and our offense doesn't become effective.

Rondo is not supposed to make PP and KG run... his responsibility is to push the pace with the ball in his hands, the rest is of no concern to him.

  Rondo actually runs when there's a good opportunity to get a transition basket. And Rondo's job is to control the pace. It's his responsibility to push the pace if that's what Doc tells him to do, not if that's what you want him to.

  The Spurs are 2nd in the league in pace, but the teams that won titles all had below average pace. Did the point guards on those title teams fail miserably in their responsibilities to push the pace?

Different team, different systems. Parker is better in a half-court system. I have no problem with a slower pace, but Rondo is not the type of PG that should be playing a slow paced game.

  Rondo is better in a fast paced game but he's perfectly capable of playing a slow paced game. The issue is that KG and PP are more grind-it-out players at this stage of their careers.

I'll tell you this much, over the past 2 or so games, I like the pace Rondo has been playing at for the most part. Some let downs in how he runs the offense in the 2nd half, particularly on the fourth, but he's been doing a much better job on pacing us appropriately. I've said as much a couple of times. Problem also is that he's mixed it up with some of the dumbest decision making I've seen from him in his career, to go along with the unnecessary high turnovers.

  I agree that Rondo's made some bad decisions in the last couple of games and some unnecessary turnovers but I think that some of the issue is the person Rondo's throwing to and not Rondo. In any case I don't think it will last, it's just something that seems to crop up once or twice a year.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2013, 03:57:47 PM »

Offline celts10

  • Kris Humphries
  • Posts: 94
  • Tommy Points: 6
Sometimes it's hard to believe we only have three true "veterans" on the team in Pierce, Garnett, and Terry (not counting Rondo). Makes me feel spoiled with all the other players Danny's paired with the Big Three over the years -- guys like Cassell, Marbury, 'Sheed, Shaq, and Jermaine -- all veterans who had some big playoff experience to go along with our core group.

The main theme heading into the regular season was the goal of getting "younger and more athletic," which I think we've accomplished with guys like Sullinger, Lee, and Bradley. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to balance this younger recipe with our aging core for consistent success thus far.

Re: We have only THREE veterans...RUN!
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 04:24:31 PM »

Offline 2short

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4553
  • Tommy Points: 311
knowing the quality of the team from top to bottom i had kind of expected to see tommy ball, the 70's celtics running team come back
rondo is good at either half court of fast break but on the fast break his vision is amazing
so why can't we run HARD everyone, lift your hand for a sub, i don't care if paul, kg etc play 5 minutes and want a sub
raise your hand and here is a sub, we should be playing good defense, rebounding and running teams into the ground
sort of like bradley's defense and  his sub is lee
no let up

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog