Author Topic: Two Revamp Trades  (Read 1241 times)

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Online PhoSita

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Two Revamp Trades
« on: January 26, 2013, 01:33:31 AM »
I call this the "revamp" because we could still be competitive this season.

Pierce and Garnett could stay on, or they could retire at the end of the season.  The Celtics would have acquired some young guys, and shaved a fair amount of money off the cap in the future.



Terry + Wilcox + 2nd round pick

for

Mozgov + Randolph + Fournier

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a3lquxh


Rondo + Bass + Lee + Collins

for

Millsap + Kanter + Mo Williams + Foye



Mo Williams won't be back until March / April.  Once he is, he can still be a valuable shooter and ball-handler, either as a starter or as a sixth man.  Foye could man the point until then, and Barbosa can step up and play a larger role, too.  The team can still hope to compete this season with more size and depth in the front-court and a major upgrade at PF. 

The Celtics can decide in the off-season whether or not to keep Millsap.  Kanter is a nice big man prospect at center.  Mozgov is a solid backup center prospect -- that gives us three young seven footers at center to develop.  Between the three of them we can hope to get a couple of quality players.



Why for Denver?

They could use more quality depth and experience at backup SG.  Fournier, Mozgov, and Randolph are all fringe rotation players for them in any case.  Wilcox can do for them what Randolph can do, only he's smarter and more experienced.

Why for Utah?

They get a point guard they can build around to pair with Favors (and Big Al, if they choose to keep him).  Lee is a solid defensive SG to put next to Hayward, who is more of a scorer / shooter at SF.  Bass can fill the role that Millsap played in the offense, though he's obviously not nearly as productive or effective. 

Still, it seems like pretty decent value for them all things considered (seeing as both Millsap and Big Al could be gone this summer in free agency).  Foye is a free agent to be as well.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 01:38:45 AM by PhoSita »
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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 06:53:01 AM »
Not high enough on Kanter to trade Rondo for him.

Offline bfrombleacher

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2013, 07:04:38 AM »
Not high enough on Kanter to trade Rondo for him.

Derrick Favors?

Offline Jon Niednagel

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2013, 07:58:41 AM »
Love the first trade. I love it so much that I suspect Denver would not. I really loathe the Terry signing. I can see the reasoning behind the second trade, but personally I wouldn't do it. Rondo is special. The guys around him just are not getting it done. I'd prefer trades that fix that problem.
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Online PhoSita

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2013, 08:44:45 AM »
Love the first trade. I love it so much that I suspect Denver would not. I really loathe the Terry signing. I can see the reasoning behind the second trade, but personally I wouldn't do it. Rondo is special. The guys around him just are not getting it done. I'd prefer trades that fix that problem.

The three guys in the trade aren't even in Denver's rotation.  So they're getting a guy they can conceivably use for three guys they aren't.  Two guys they can use, actually.
"You're never as good as you think you are, you're never as bad as you think you are, and you're never far from either."

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Online PhoSita

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 08:45:38 AM »
Not high enough on Kanter to trade Rondo for him.

We're also getting Millsap for the stretch run here, and a chance to re-sign him, if we want to.

Also trading Rondo allows us to package him with two of the long term role player deals we signed this off-season, which it would be ideal to get out from under as we enter a rebuilding / transition phase.
"You're never as good as you think you are, you're never as bad as you think you are, and you're never far from either."

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Online Celtics4ever

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2013, 08:54:58 AM »
Kantor is very soft for a big, I think he is fool's gold.

Offline Jon Niednagel

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 09:11:25 AM »
Love the first trade. I love it so much that I suspect Denver would not. I really loathe the Terry signing. I can see the reasoning behind the second trade, but personally I wouldn't do it. Rondo is special. The guys around him just are not getting it done. I'd prefer trades that fix that problem.

The three guys in the trade aren't even in Denver's rotation.  So they're getting a guy they can conceivably use for three guys they aren't.  Two guys they can use, actually.

They may not be using Fournier, but they really like the potential of the young fella. So giving him up for Terry- who is old and sucks- is a no-go from the start. It would be like trading for Jason Collins on a big contract and giving up Melo to get him just because Melo isn't playing for us.  Terry's contract also puts more long term money on them, and they are apparently too close to the tax as is, and want to decrease payroll over the long term. Like I say, I love the deal. I just don't think they would.
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Offline clover

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 09:19:13 AM »
The first trade makes no sense for Denver and the second trade makes no sense for Boston.

Online PhoSita

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2013, 09:34:19 AM »
The first trade makes no sense for Denver and the second trade makes no sense for Boston.

Denver's current wing rotation:  Iguodala, Gallinari, Chandler, Brewer, Miller, Fournier

They don't have a real SG in the lot.  None of them is an above average outside shooter except for Gallo, who is very streaky.  So yes, they can use Jason Terry.  Especially in a more uptempo system.

They also lack a reliable backup PF at the moment.

Currently, Mozgov, Randolph, and Fournier are all outside Denver's rotation.  You can switch out Fournier for a guy like Quincy Miller if you think Denver value him too highly.  That's fine.  But the Celtics would be trading them two guys they can use right now for three guys they aren't using.  Plus a 2nd round pick that won't be too late.
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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2013, 09:36:22 AM »
I'm fine, if uninspired, by the first one. Basically trading 3 years of a disappointing Terry for a guy (Mozgov) who has size and might help rebound, if Doc plays him. Still like Randolph's tools if used right, but Doc won't play him.

Second one, I don't think Utah gives up either Favors or Kanter for Rondo, but I'd do either, preferably Favors. A rotation of:

Mo Williams/Foye
Bradley/Foye/Pierce
Pierce/Green
Milsap/KG
KG/Kanter

would be very potent.

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2013, 09:52:07 AM »
Second one, I don't think Utah gives up either Favors or Kanter for Rondo, but I'd do either, preferably Favors. A rotation of:

Mo Williams/Foye
Bradley/Foye/Pierce
Pierce/Green
Milsap/KG
KG/Kanter

would be very potent.

I think Utah definitely gives up Kanter to land Rondo. I don't know about Favors. That is maybe for me. But Kanter, definitely. Kanter will never be as talented as Rondo is. Favors might be.

They would be extremely foolish not to trade Kanter for Rondo.

Online PhoSita

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 09:59:24 AM »
Love the first trade. I love it so much that I suspect Denver would not. I really loathe the Terry signing. I can see the reasoning behind the second trade, but personally I wouldn't do it. Rondo is special. The guys around him just are not getting it done. I'd prefer trades that fix that problem.

The three guys in the trade aren't even in Denver's rotation.  So they're getting a guy they can conceivably use for three guys they aren't.  Two guys they can use, actually.

They may not be using Fournier, but they really like the potential of the young fella. So giving him up for Terry- who is old and sucks- is a no-go from the start. It would be like trading for Jason Collins on a big contract and giving up Melo to get him just because Melo isn't playing for us.  Terry's contract also puts more long term money on them, and they are apparently too close to the tax as is, and want to decrease payroll over the long term. Like I say, I love the deal. I just don't think they would.

Fair enough.  Switch out Fournier for Quincy Miller or Julyan Stone.
"You're never as good as you think you are, you're never as bad as you think you are, and you're never far from either."

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Online PhoSita

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Re: Two Revamp Trades
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2013, 10:03:32 AM »
Kantor is very soft for a big, I think he is fool's gold.

Disagree. 

Sure thing he is not, but that's why we could trade Rondo for him.  His skillset and size compare him favorably to somebody like Al Horford (though he may never defend as well as Horford).  I'd like the possibilities of pairing Sullinger and Kanter in the frontcourt going forward.
"You're never as good as you think you are, you're never as bad as you think you are, and you're never far from either."

- Brad Stevens, the Philosopher Coach.

 

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