Author Topic: Biggest blockbuster of all time (idea)  (Read 1724 times)

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Re: Biggest blockbuster of all time (idea)
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 03:55:10 PM »

Offline Who

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New York is the one I hesitate on the most.

The Knicks are playing very well. They have great chemistry. The pieces fit together nicely for the most part.

Then there is the players involved. Wade is declining and may only have a short number of high level years left. Dwight is coming off a major injury and has yet to regain his MVP form. I am still hopeful Dwight will but it is a major question mark.

Carmelo is playing excellent basketball and Tyson Chandler has been very healthy the last two and half years. As of now, I'd take Melo ahead of Wade or Dwight. I think he is playing the best basketball of the three of them. And importantly, he is the healthiest and a couple of years younger than Wade.



I think I'd go with a lower risk move if I were New York.

I'd keep Melo and Tyson and continue to build around them. And I'd look to move Amare and Shumpert and any other pieces that don't quite fit in.

The risk of Wade and Dwight is just too high for me.

Amare is just nearly impossible to move.

I agree that the Knicks are playing well and do have great chemistry.  Here's my question to you:  Are the Knicks legitimate contenders right now? 

We have differing opinions on Dwight I know from other threads.  I still find him to be a top 4 player in the NBA while he obviously hasn't played like it this year.  I think Melo is slightly above, but very much close to Wade's level.  If Wade was playing on that Knicks team and not in Lebron's shadow, I think we'd see similar production.

Yeah, moving Amare would be more about dumping him than getting anything valuable back in return. Just getting him out of the way really. Keeping the focus on defensive minded role players.

I'm not sure where I exactly I have Dwight right now. I think either top 15 or top 10. I don't have him in the top 4. He still hasn't shown that same defensive range that he has had in the past. I need to see that before I put him back in the top five.

And I don't think it is a sure thing that athleticism comes back. That risk there, that uncertainty, causes me a lot of problems. If I was sure it would come back, then yes, I take Dwight as the best player in the deal and consider an exceptional player to build around. I'd happily move Carmelo for him.

I see more players getting at and bothering Wade with their aggressive defense these days than I do with Carmelo. So I'd rate Melo a bit above Wade because of that but I agree that Wade isn't far off Melo + however, I would only expect that gap to grow each season going forward from now.



I agree that the Knicks are playing well and do have great chemistry.  Here's my question to you:  Are the Knicks legitimate contenders right now? 

No -- I think they are a little short. Largely because (1) I don't trust Raymond Felton to perform well against top defensive teams in the playoffs (2) a few role player issues like with Amare and Shumpert.

I do, however, think they are very close and think the comparisons to the 2011 Dallas Mavericks team with Dirk/Tyson leading the charge (now Melo/Tyson) to be very accurate. A few small changes could move New York into title-range. So I think they are not quite there but are pretty close as currently constituted.

Current Team

PG: Felton, Prigioni
SG: Kidd, Shumpert
SF: Brewer, JR Smith
PF: Melo, Amare, Novak Kurt Thomas
C:  Tyson, Camby, Sheed

New Team Post-Trade

PG: Felton, Kidd, Prigioni
SG: Wade, (Kidd), JR Smith
SF: Brewer, (Wade)
PF: Amare, K.Thomas, Novak
C:  Dwight, Camby, Sheed

So the question is -- is that new-look Knicks team a title contender?

I think the team would need to be a title contender almost instantly because of Wade's short window. Not much time to fiddle around trying to get the balance right.

I reckon Amare would be pretty similar to Brandon Bass on that team. Dwight Howard's presence will force Amare to spend a lot of time in the high post as it has with Pau Gasol. So a bit more size and better finishing around the basket than Bass. But a bit worse at the long jumpers. Not a high impact player. More trigger happy. 

I think the small forward slot is a considerable problem. The lack of jump-shooting from D-Wade makes Ronnie Brewer a difficult player to partner with him. JR Smith is too weak as a defender/rebounder to start at SF. Amare and Dwight together + spacing issues on the wing + over-reliance on Felton's jumper = problems.

Actually, Jason Kidd, Kidd might very well be the best all-round SF on that roster. Kidd would be the next best defender/rebounder behind Ronnie Brewer (I think Kidd defends SFs better than Wade does) + he provides that necessary jump-shooting and floor spacing along with his passing skills and extra ball-handling. Three ball-handling guards would help Dwight and Amare make things work better in the paint. Kidd's ability to facilitate the offense would be a great weapon between those other four offensive players.

Or you could start Novak and Brewer together. I don't like the idea of starting Novak though. He is such a pathetic defender and rebounder. If pitted against starting quality PFs on a nightly basis, Novak is going to get cut apart defensively. I would prefer to go with Kidd and Amare. Different option though.

PG: Felton, Prigioni
SG: Wade, JR Smith
SF: Kidd, Brewer
PF: Amare, Novak, K.Thomas
C:  Dwight, Camby, Sheed

I think D-Wade can be gotten to (opposing defense can bother him, I mean). Dwight Howard is struggling with his offense this year. Amare doesn't fit in well. This is team to me that looks prime to choke in a tough playoff series against top class defensive teams.

I really think Felton and Kidd are the keys to making that team work offensively. I think Felton's and Kidd's ability to open up the offense is paramount. Felton with his dribble penetration. Kidd with his sturdy leadership, decision making and ball movement.

As for their own defense and rebounding, Dwight isn't defending at a high level yet. At an above average level but not a high level. Kidd is being asked a lot at SF. Amare is still Amare. Felton, Felton. Wade is a high level defender. The bench gives them a good lift defensively. Brewer is a high level defender. Good size in the paint with Camby, Thomas and Sheed. Plus, Prigioni, who is a very good defender. 

So the question is -- is that new-look Knicks team a title contender?

PG: Felton, Prigioni
SG: Wade, JR Smith
SF: Kidd, Brewer
PF: Amare, Novak, K.Thomas
C:  Dwight, Camby, Sheed

Yeah, okay, I am in. I buy this team as a title contender even with a more limited Dwight Howard in place there. An upgrade over the current Knicks.

Edit: Oh bugger, I just realized Battier was heading to New York in the original trade.

Well that is that small forward problem addressed. Haha. Okay. Kidd off the bench as a combo guard. JR Smith on the wing. Ronnie Brewer and Prigioni as additional perimeter subs. Lots of perimeter depth. Good depth at center. Battier could double up as a backup PF in some situations when they need shooting but more defense than Novak provides.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 04:00:53 PM by Who »

Re: Biggest blockbuster of all time (idea)
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2013, 09:41:04 AM »

Offline Moranis

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bad trade for Miami.  Doesn't help them at all and makes them worse.  Still probably win the title because of Lebron, but might affect their chances down the road.  Also, not very good value for Wade.  If they truly wanted to move him, they could do a lot better. 
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Re: Biggest blockbuster of all time (idea)
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2013, 10:08:39 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Melo and Kobe on the same team?  :o With only one ball. I dunno bought that.


If Im the Knicks I much rather have Melo/ Chandler over Wade/Battier/Howard

 

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