Author Topic: Rondo's Defense..  (Read 1885 times)

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Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 10:58:32 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Like many star players, defensive consistency slowly drops off when asked to carry more offensive burden. Still capable of turning up the heat and being a dominant defensive PG when he feels like it.
When exactly did we start asking him to carry "more offensive burden", because I can't detect any major differences in his contribution over the last 3-4 years or so.

Agreed. I don't think his defense has anything to do with the offensive burden he's carrying... OK, maybe slightly, but it's a meaningless excuse on my book.

KG and Pierce still carry the bulk of our offensive burden, yet they at least play something that resembles defense, while KG excels at it.

I'd have more sympathy for Rondo if he was actually pushing up the tempo, running the floor constantly, being aggressive offensively, but he can't do even that much. He loves to walk the ball up the floor, pound the basketball milking the shot clock, then pass it to KG/Pierce and let them go to work. Oversimplification, I know, but I really think the offensive burden excuse is way overused.

I think you'll have a hard time convincing very many people that Paul Pierce's overall defense has been better than Rondo's this season.

KG's defense is still impressive, but he's been having way more lapses on that end of the floor this year than any fans seem to be willing to admit. 

Once you start looking for players that play great defense on every possession of every game, you'll find that these mythical players don't exist. 

Of course, these mythical players are the ones that many seem to be using to compare to Rondo's defensive play.

To compare with KG and Paul, at least they always look like they're trying to defend the guy in front of them.  Paul may be slacking off on his rotations, he's still making the effort one-on-one.  KG may get beat, but he's still making the effort.  Rondo doesn't seem to consistently make that effort defensively, especially on pick-n-rolls, and that's something he's been doing forever.

Mike

Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 11:05:54 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Like many star players, defensive consistency slowly drops off when asked to carry more offensive burden. Still capable of turning up the heat and being a dominant defensive PG when he feels like it.

The problem is Rondo doesn't make up for his defensive lapses by scoring 18-20+ points a night.
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Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 11:11:35 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Like many star players, defensive consistency slowly drops off when asked to carry more offensive burden. Still capable of turning up the heat and being a dominant defensive PG when he feels like it.

The problem is Rondo doesn't make up for his defensive lapses by scoring 18-20+ points a night.

No, he does it by putting up 13 and 11 instead. 

Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 11:18:58 AM »

Offline clover

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I think he's closer to the point in his career to where Pierce was pre-2008, when he appeared locked into building his stats and there seemed often to be an unspoken understanding between opposing stars that if one didn't defend to ferociously, the other wouldn't either.

That's just the code that Bradley has got flack from opponents for violating, and something Rondo never used to give into.

Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 11:21:16 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Like many star players, defensive consistency slowly drops off when asked to carry more offensive burden. Still capable of turning up the heat and being a dominant defensive PG when he feels like it.
When exactly did we start asking him to carry "more offensive burden", because I can't detect any major differences in his contribution over the last 3-4 years or so.

Agreed. I don't think his defense has anything to do with the offensive burden he's carrying... OK, maybe slightly, but it's a meaningless excuse on my book.

KG and Pierce still carry the bulk of our offensive burden, yet they at least play something that resembles defense, while KG excels at it.

I'd have more sympathy for Rondo if he was actually pushing up the tempo, running the floor constantly, being aggressive offensively, but he can't do even that much. He loves to walk the ball up the floor, pound the basketball milking the shot clock, then pass it to KG/Pierce and let them go to work. Oversimplification, I know, but I really think the offensive burden excuse is way overused.

I think you'll have a hard time convincing very many people that Paul Pierce's overall defense has been better than Rondo's this season.

KG's defense is still impressive, but he's been having way more lapses on that end of the floor this year than any fans seem to be willing to admit. 

Once you start looking for players that play great defense on every possession of every game, you'll find that these mythical players don't exist. 

Of course, these mythical players are the ones that many seem to be using to compare to Rondo's defensive play.

To compare with KG and Paul, at least they always look like they're trying to defend the guy in front of them.  Paul may be slacking off on his rotations, he's still making the effort one-on-one.  KG may get beat, but he's still making the effort.  Rondo doesn't seem to consistently make that effort defensively, especially on pick-n-rolls, and that's something he's been doing forever.

Mike

All I can say in response to that is that it's a matter of perception.  Rondo has gained an--unearned, in my opinion--reputation as a lazy defender around here.  People are now looking for that in his game.  The more they look, the more they see.

I'm not trying to disparage a couple of legends, but I've seen plenty of defensive plays by both Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett where it looked to me like they weren't making their best effort on the play.  However, having watched enough NBA basketball to understand that other talented NBA players can routinely make defenders look like they aren't trying on defense, I don't call them out as lazy bums every time I see it.  I accept it as part of the game, and take solace in the fact that lately the Boston Celtics have been improving their vaunted defense as a team.


Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2013, 11:23:36 AM »

Offline makaveli

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his defense was mentioned in a topic I opened, and his defense has gotten worse, I'll make a mixtape to support my case..it's mind boggling really...
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 11:25:26 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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However, having watched enough NBA basketball to understand that other talented NBA players can routinely make defenders look like they aren't trying on defense, I don't call them out as lazy bums every time I see it.  I accept it as part of the game, and take solace in the fact that lately the Boston Celtics have been improving their vaunted defense as a team.
I have no doubt that this happens. But when it happens routinely, seemingly at will, and not necessarily only by the most supremely talented NBA players, then I think it's a problem.

And yes, Pierce and Garnett have been as bad as Rondo this season, but they're not 27 years old either.
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Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2013, 12:01:54 PM »

Offline RyNye

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Rondo is not having a good year all-around. At least for his standards. I don't know what is wrong with him, but there is something definitely wrong with him.

His defensive rating is 103. Which is still GOOD, and above average, but well below is 99 mark last year. He also doesn't get as many steals as he did 2 years ago.

His shooting percentages are up from last year, but still down compared to 2009 and 2010.

His usage rate this year is a career high. His assist percentage and assists per 48 are down from last season.

His turnovers are a career high. His free throws attempts are a career low.

I don't know what is going on with Rondo, and he is still playing like a GOOD basketball player. Yet, somehow, he has regressed from his productivity in the past couple of years, when he SHOULD be getting better.


Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2013, 12:07:08 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Rondo is not having a good year all-around. At least for his standards. I don't know what is wrong with him, but there is something definitely wrong with him.

His defensive rating is 103. Which is still GOOD, and above average, but well below is 99 mark last year. He also doesn't get as many steals as he did 2 years ago.

His shooting percentages are up from last year, but still down compared to 2009 and 2010.

His usage rate this year is a career high. His assist percentage and assists per 48 are down from last season.

His turnovers are a career high. His free throws attempts are a career low.

I don't know what is going on with Rondo, and he is still playing like a GOOD basketball player. Yet, somehow, he has regressed from his productivity in the past couple of years, when he SHOULD be getting better.
My theory is that he's at his best when he's playing next to a great offensive player who commands defensive attention and opens up space. Neither Pierce nor Garnett fit the bill anymore.
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Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2013, 12:07:29 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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The assists numbers look good and could be better if guys made shots.

Still based off the playoffs last year, there was MVP talk in regards to him before the season.

He has not lived up to the expectations and it's very disappointing.

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Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2013, 12:07:55 PM »

Online BballTim

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Rondo is not having a good year all-around. At least for his standards. I don't know what is wrong with him, but there is something definitely wrong with him.

His defensive rating is 103. Which is still GOOD, and above average, but well below is 99 mark last year. He also doesn't get as many steals as he did 2 years ago.

His shooting percentages are up from last year, but still down compared to 2009 and 2010.

His usage rate this year is a career high. His assist percentage and assists per 48 are down from last season.

His turnovers are a career high. His free throws attempts are a career low.

I don't know what is going on with Rondo, and he is still playing like a GOOD basketball player. Yet, somehow, he has regressed from his productivity in the past couple of years, when he SHOULD be getting better.

  I'd be somewhat curious about how they calculate defensive rating.

Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2013, 12:09:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'd be somewhat curious about how they calculate defensive rating.
Should be points allowed by offensive counterpart per 100 possessions, although 103 seems a bit too high to be above average, so I'm curious about this as well.
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Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2013, 12:19:49 PM »

Online BballTim

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I'd be somewhat curious about how they calculate defensive rating.
Should be points allowed by offensive counterpart per 100 possessions, although 103 seems a bit too high to be above average, so I'm curious about this as well.

  That's what I'm thinking as well, which is going to be off for Rondo since he spends quite a bit of time covering shooting guards. His defensive numbers from synergy sports are fairly similar to last years and that's based on who he covers on a particular play, not what the opposing pg does when he's in the game.

Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 12:21:02 PM »

Online Who

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Rondo started the season off brilliantly. Then dropped off around the time he got hurt. Hasn't regained his early season form yet. He needs to get back to that.

Re: Rondo's Defense..
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 12:22:45 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Rondo started the season off brilliantly. Then dropped off around the time he got hurt. Hasn't regained his early season form yet. He needs to get back to that.

This ^

 

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