Author Topic: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray  (Read 4279 times)

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Offline BballTim

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 01:05:11 AM »

  One would assume she was unable to find anyone who would claim that we miss him on the other end of the court...
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 01:53:55 AM by BballTim »

Offline ManUp

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 01:50:16 AM »
I do think we are missing his point production. We have yet to find anyone willing or capable to pick up the slack. With that said we still should be a better team then we have been.

Offline mctyson

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 07:14:30 AM »
I was thinking about this the other day, and tried to figure out what exactly from Ray the team is missing.

As other posters have pointed out, it's not really showing up in the stats.  It's not like this team didn't have long stretches of mediocre basketball when Ray was here (2010, 2012).

I would argue - off pure speculation - that what we miss from Ray is his professionalism.  The day-in, day-out work he put into his game.  Seems like this team is missing some of that.

Offline clover

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 07:43:30 AM »
I was thinking about this the other day, and tried to figure out what exactly from Ray the team is missing.

As other posters have pointed out, it's not really showing up in the stats.  It's not like this team didn't have long stretches of mediocre basketball when Ray was here (2010, 2012).

I would argue - off pure speculation - that what we miss from Ray is his professionalism.  The day-in, day-out work he put into his game.  Seems like this team is missing some of that.

Yes, I can see what you mean about the professionalism, but then he was here through the Donkey, Shrek and Shaq years, and supposedly this team was, like last year's, supposed to be improved because everyone was all about business.

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 07:54:25 AM »
I do think we are missing his point production. We have yet to find anyone willing or capable to pick up the slack. With that said we still should be a better team then we have been.
No we aren't, the stats show we aren't. This team is missing defense and heart and talent and people willing to actually put in the effort to be a good team.

Offline Eddie20

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2013, 07:55:42 AM »
Look at the three players talking here.

All rivals with no love for the Cs.

TA still feels dissed by DA and hence the Cs. Basically saying "you screwed up not re-signing me", therefore, by the transitive property you screwed up with Judas.I buy the first part, but not the Judas part. We did all we could to sign Judas (short of giving him the 9 million he knew we would never give), but TA, while happy to be in Memphis still feels dissed (and rightfully so) by DA.
 
Hamilton, first at Detroit and now in Chicago strongly dislikes the Cs. He's a punk. Remember which Celtic had huge scratches on his arm and then wore the white long sleeve to protect it.Some irony there I think.

Deng also is a Bull, Hamilton's and Noah's teammates. No love lost on the Cs there.

By the way, while your checking on opnions on Judas, check what cHeat fans have been saying lately on their boards. No D, shouldn't be driving or trying to dish the ball because he turns the ball over. That's what THEY are saying.


Not only that, but Allen knows Rip from his UConn days and played with TA here in Boston.

I've watched about 80% of the Heat's games this year and their defense has been really bad with Allen. He struggles to keep players in front of him, which causes others to rotate to help, this creates a lot of open looks (especially uncontested 3's for other teams) for teams. This could be a primary reason why the Heat has struggled mightily defending the 3 this year and our dead last in rebounding because players are constantly out of position because of the subsequent help D.

His shooting has also been down the last 2 months after a sizzling November to open up the season. In December and January he's shot below 40% from 3's and about 46% from the field.

Offline pearljammer10

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 08:13:04 AM »
Wow, I just found this stat:

2011-2012 Celtics: 91.8 points per game scored, 89.3 points per game allowed
2012-2013 Celtics: 94.9 points per game scored, 96.0 points per game allowed

I don't think it's Ray's shooting we're missing.

Nailed it. At one point this season, I think about 15 games ago, our points allowed was 11 points more than last year. Thats a crazy crazy number.
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Offline scaryjerry

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2013, 08:15:41 AM »
yup we miss ray... and if he had any brains he would miss us too....was wayyyyy more of a star here, fans liked him more, more minutes etc.

Offline Cman

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2013, 08:17:44 AM »
I don't see this team's record being any better if Ray had come back. Ray was streaky like everyone else has been this season. Not need to even talk about his defense.

He may have seemed a bit streaky, at times.

But no one - even now - in the NBA evokes the same kind of fear as Ray Allen.

Case in point - one of my FAVORITE games from him:



He was like 2 for 14 that game...then he nailed THAT shot.....

soooo, his cruddy shooting put the Cs in the hole with the game on the line, and he finally makes a shot to win the game?

I can't tell if he helped or hurt us. Certainly made things dramatic.

;)

In any case -- we've crossed that bridge.
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Online MBunge

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2013, 11:05:22 AM »
we're 'missing' ray because Doc is running the same system that benefited the big 3 of kg, paul and ray.

Tommy Point for you!

Hamilton's comment is all about how Ray would make it easier for KG and Paul, but neither of those guys can do what they did 5 years ago.  And Deng talks about how your can't just plug someone else in to replace Ray and keep doing the same things.

Mike

Offline PhoSita

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2013, 11:07:36 AM »
Wow, I just found this stat:

2011-2012 Celtics: 91.8 points per game scored, 89.3 points per game allowed
2012-2013 Celtics: 94.9 points per game scored, 96.0 points per game allowed

I don't think it's Ray's shooting we're missing.

Nailed it. At one point this season, I think about 15 games ago, our points allowed was 11 points more than last year. Thats a crazy crazy number.

Yep, they really fell off a cliff defensively and that's really all the explanation that's necessary for why the team is struggling so badly this season.
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Online MBunge

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2013, 11:18:45 AM »
Wow, I just found this stat:

2011-2012 Celtics: 91.8 points per game scored, 89.3 points per game allowed
2012-2013 Celtics: 94.9 points per game scored, 96.0 points per game allowed

I don't think it's Ray's shooting we're missing.

Nailed it. At one point this season, I think about 15 games ago, our points allowed was 11 points more than last year. Thats a crazy crazy number.

Yep, they really fell off a cliff defensively and that's really all the explanation that's necessary for why the team is struggling so badly this season.

The defense is clearly #1, but you can't completely ignore the offense.  In the 21 loses, Boston's scored over 90 points just 9 times.  In the 20 wins, the team scored less than 90 only 3 times.

After the Cavs game, I saw Doc talking about how the Celtics have had these offensive lulls in the past but they used to get defensive stops to make up for it.  From the way he said it, though, it was obvious that trying to fix the offensive lulls is not something Doc's ever focused that much on.

Mike

Offline ItStaysYang

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2013, 11:58:46 AM »
I hate when posters start topics like "Boy [...]"

How profound.

Offline IndeedProceed

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 12:04:24 PM »
Shut up Tony Allen. You're not some 2013 Boston Celtics expert 'cuz you used to play for us and you managed to stop punching people in the head or destroying your knees on after-the-whistle dunks long enough to gain some sort of credibility as a NBA statesman. You live in Memphis.

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Offline kozlodoev

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Re: Boy were most posters wrong about Ray
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 12:10:12 PM »
Shut up Tony Allen. You're not some 2013 Boston Celtics expert 'cuz you used to play for us and you managed to stop punching people in the head or destroying your knees on after-the-whistle dunks long enough to gain some sort of credibility as a NBA statesman. You live in Memphis.
It was Davis that punched a person, not Allen. But I agree with the general sentiment.
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