Author Topic: The Jeff Green thread  (Read 127465 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #285 on: February 24, 2013, 02:46:20 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
Quote
You know why I don't think Green will be a top five SF?  Because the talent at that position is VERY good right now and for the future.  LeBron, Melo, George, Gay, etc.  these guys are better than Green right now, and will still be better in two years.

Look, I like Jeff, but he is NEVER going to be a top five SF.

That awkward moment when you only count four.

And George and Gay aren't going to be guaranteed better. The only two guaranteed are LeBron and KD.
Green is on the level of George, Batum, and MAYBE Gay.
So apart from LBJ, KD, and Melo, it's George, Green, Batum, Gay.

Is he top two out of those four? We can only hope. But I think he will be.

That awkward moment when you don't have any answers to my argument and try to nitpick.

You can add KD to that list.  Gay is going to be better than Green and so is George.

Gay and George are FAR better than Green right now.

Batum and Green are probably on the same level.

I'm not nitpicking. You pointed out four players better than him, which means Green could be the fifth.

Gay and George are not far better tha Green. Compare George's third year stats to those of Green's. see?

If anything, I would definitely take Batum over Gay too. I think you're lacking knowledge in how good Gay, Batum, George are.

Gay is an elite scorer.  George is an elite defender.  I said Batum and Green are on the same level.

I don't lack knowledge.  You just worship Green at an altar, and that's ok, just don't call me out on things that are false.

I will not.

Batum is better than Gay in  terms of all around game and efficiency.
George is not known for elite defense.
Gay is just a not-so-good Melo on a contract ten times worse than that of Green's. a great player but never an All-Star.
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #286 on: February 24, 2013, 02:53:01 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
2 more points

1. The reason you don't think JG will be a top 5 SF right now is because he's not even asked to be that right now. The diff is LBJ, PG, Melo are being asked to be #1 on their team. JG is asked to be...I'm not even sure anyone knows what number he's asked to be, but right now he's been #3 (#4 after Rondo) on this team. I'm hoping that will change as the season and next year progresses.

Does he have the skillset to be top 5? I absolutely think so. Why do we marvel at players like LBJ and PG and Gay and whomever? Because they make it look EASY. Did JG NOT make his 31 points look easy? on 14 shots? Wow. I've seen LBJ score 35 on 35 shots. Same for Melo. AND MELO BARELY PLAYS DEFENSE!!

Which one of the top 5 and rising play defense like JG?

2. I'm more than hopeful that guys like Nick and Vinnie hold Rondo to these amazingly high standards when he returns from knee surgery. We can all pretty much guarantee that Rondo is going to come back early/earlier than he should. And when he's not as explosive, has a bunch of TO's, I really hope there are no 'excuses' such as a brand spanking new (fake) ACL.

Hahaha, here we go:

You know why I don't think Green will be a top five SF?  Because the talent at that position is VERY good right now and for the future.  LeBron, Melo, George, Gay, etc.  these guys are better than Green right now, and will still be better in two years.

Green dropped 31 on the freaking Phoenix Suns.  That ain't special, bud.  Was it impressive?  Sure it was.  I'm glad Jeff is being aggressive, but you can't say that that game means he's gonna be a star.  That's ridiculous.

Who cares if Melo doesn't play defense?  He's still unstoppable on offense.  Jeff isn't, and he also isn't as good a defender as LeBron or George.  Jeff plays good defense, but it's nowhere near LeBron or George.

I'll hold Rondo to a high standard, and you wanna know why?  Because he should be healthy.  For all we know, Jeff came back too early.  Maybe he should've come back in January.

Look at Dwight Howard.  You can't tell me he came back ON TIME.  He looked really bad to start the season.  Now, he's playing better.

Derrick Rose probably isnt playing this season because he's not healthy.  That's a good decision by the Bulls.  It helps them long term.

I expect Rondo to come back healthy.  If he's not ready, keep him off the floor.  Next year is probably a wash, anyway.

Look, I like Jeff, but he is NEVER going to be a top five SF.

31 points against an NBA team. When JG has his games, who has stopped him? Who can stop him? What are you talking about...you think Jeff is stoppable? Mainly when he's double teamed, but I've not seen a ton of individual plays/players stop a determined Jeff.

Do I think he's ready now? no. and I said that...so we've got that. and I've also said that if Jeff was asked to be #1 on the team, I think we'd see an even HIGHER level of play from him.

I see little things that Jeff needs to work on. Go left. finish better. get a better handle. Things that have seemed to improve over the course of the season. But he's got a wonderful current skill set.

PG was shown confidence by his coach. and he just kinda came out of no where. and became the guy. I think the same can happen with JG.

I'm not a Melo fan. So you can take me out of that argument. He's a shooter. I don't see him being extremely efficient. I don't see him as a great defender. So when I'm talking great SFs, I see (now) KD and LBJ.

And don't we still talk about KD's aggressiveness? But JG will never be top because...?
right.

Jeff has the skills to be a star. No one thought PG could be a star either until he was ASKED TO DO IT!!!

The Suns suck.  Players drop 30 on teams all the time.  Wade dropped 33 on Philly last night.

Jeff is totally stoppable.  He has a predictable offensive game.  He's good at a lot of things, but the only thing he is elite at is inconsistency.  If you think Jeff is going to play very well EVERY game, then please tell me what you're smoking, because I really want it.

Jeff doesn't have the talent to be a #1 option.  He is best suited as a contender's fourth best player.

George wasn't shown confidence by his coach.  He HAD to step up, because nobody else on that Pacers team (except David West) has the capability to be THE man.  And everyone has thought George was going to be a star, so you don't know what you're talking about when you say he came out of nowhere.  I like to have arguments with people who know their stuff.

I'm not a Melo or Gay fan either.  That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that they're good players.

He won't be a first option but second and third are possible too.
If anything, you guys blame him for being TOO consistent. He's playing at the same way he's been p,suing for seven years. He's had what twenty fifteen point games? He's been playing very well since January.

Yeah, he has been playing very well.  That doesn't mean he's going to be a top five SF in two years.

I'm not going to say that it's a given, but I agree with CelticConcourse that he has a very good shot at being a top five small forward in two years.  Kevin Durant, Lebron James, and Carmelo Anthony are superstars, and they presumably still will be two years from now, but after that guys like George, Gay, Batum, maybe Galinari, and a small sprinkling of other are very, very good players.  I don't think any of them are superstar material.  Jeff Green has the talent level to be considered among that group once he becomes a full time starter.  I don't think that's being overly unrealistic.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #287 on: February 24, 2013, 02:53:53 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1571
  • Tommy Points: 116
  • Everyone's excited for the new era.
Quote
You know why I don't think Green will be a top five SF?  Because the talent at that position is VERY good right now and for the future.  LeBron, Melo, George, Gay, etc.  these guys are better than Green right now, and will still be better in two years.

Look, I like Jeff, but he is NEVER going to be a top five SF.

That awkward moment when you only count four.

And George and Gay aren't going to be guaranteed better. The only two guaranteed are LeBron and KD.
Green is on the level of George, Batum, and MAYBE Gay.
So apart from LBJ, KD, and Melo, it's George, Green, Batum, Gay.

Is he top two out of those four? We can only hope. But I think he will be.

That awkward moment when you don't have any answers to my argument and try to nitpick.

You can add KD to that list.  Gay is going to be better than Green and so is George.

Gay and George are FAR better than Green right now.

Batum and Green are probably on the same level.

I'm not nitpicking. You pointed out four players better than him, which means Green could be the fifth.

Gay and George are not far better tha Green. Compare George's third year stats to those of Green's. see?

If anything, I would definitely take Batum over Gay too. I think you're lacking knowledge in how good Gay, Batum, George are.

Gay is an elite scorer.  George is an elite defender.  I said Batum and Green are on the same level.

I don't lack knowledge.  You just worship Green at an altar, and that's ok, just don't call me out on things that are false.

I will not.

Batum is better than Gay in  terms of all around game and efficiency.
George is not known for elite defense.
Gay is just a not-so-good Melo on a contract ten times worse than that of Green's. a great player but never an All-Star.

I take Gay over Batum every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  That's just something we cannot agree on.

What the hell is George known for?  Athleticism?  He's known for being a superb defender and can hit the three at a decent clip (just not in the three point contest).

I'll give you that Melo is better than Gay, and that his contract is bad, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player.  To put it in perspective, Batum is earning 11 million this year, and I'd argue he's overrated and is only the third best player on his team.  At least we know Gay is Toronto's best player.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #288 on: February 24, 2013, 02:56:31 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1571
  • Tommy Points: 116
  • Everyone's excited for the new era.
2 more points

1. The reason you don't think JG will be a top 5 SF right now is because he's not even asked to be that right now. The diff is LBJ, PG, Melo are being asked to be #1 on their team. JG is asked to be...I'm not even sure anyone knows what number he's asked to be, but right now he's been #3 (#4 after Rondo) on this team. I'm hoping that will change as the season and next year progresses.

Does he have the skillset to be top 5? I absolutely think so. Why do we marvel at players like LBJ and PG and Gay and whomever? Because they make it look EASY. Did JG NOT make his 31 points look easy? on 14 shots? Wow. I've seen LBJ score 35 on 35 shots. Same for Melo. AND MELO BARELY PLAYS DEFENSE!!

Which one of the top 5 and rising play defense like JG?

2. I'm more than hopeful that guys like Nick and Vinnie hold Rondo to these amazingly high standards when he returns from knee surgery. We can all pretty much guarantee that Rondo is going to come back early/earlier than he should. And when he's not as explosive, has a bunch of TO's, I really hope there are no 'excuses' such as a brand spanking new (fake) ACL.

Hahaha, here we go:

You know why I don't think Green will be a top five SF?  Because the talent at that position is VERY good right now and for the future.  LeBron, Melo, George, Gay, etc.  these guys are better than Green right now, and will still be better in two years.

Green dropped 31 on the freaking Phoenix Suns.  That ain't special, bud.  Was it impressive?  Sure it was.  I'm glad Jeff is being aggressive, but you can't say that that game means he's gonna be a star.  That's ridiculous.

Who cares if Melo doesn't play defense?  He's still unstoppable on offense.  Jeff isn't, and he also isn't as good a defender as LeBron or George.  Jeff plays good defense, but it's nowhere near LeBron or George.

I'll hold Rondo to a high standard, and you wanna know why?  Because he should be healthy.  For all we know, Jeff came back too early.  Maybe he should've come back in January.

Look at Dwight Howard.  You can't tell me he came back ON TIME.  He looked really bad to start the season.  Now, he's playing better.

Derrick Rose probably isnt playing this season because he's not healthy.  That's a good decision by the Bulls.  It helps them long term.

I expect Rondo to come back healthy.  If he's not ready, keep him off the floor.  Next year is probably a wash, anyway.

Look, I like Jeff, but he is NEVER going to be a top five SF.

31 points against an NBA team. When JG has his games, who has stopped him? Who can stop him? What are you talking about...you think Jeff is stoppable? Mainly when he's double teamed, but I've not seen a ton of individual plays/players stop a determined Jeff.

Do I think he's ready now? no. and I said that...so we've got that. and I've also said that if Jeff was asked to be #1 on the team, I think we'd see an even HIGHER level of play from him.

I see little things that Jeff needs to work on. Go left. finish better. get a better handle. Things that have seemed to improve over the course of the season. But he's got a wonderful current skill set.

PG was shown confidence by his coach. and he just kinda came out of no where. and became the guy. I think the same can happen with JG.

I'm not a Melo fan. So you can take me out of that argument. He's a shooter. I don't see him being extremely efficient. I don't see him as a great defender. So when I'm talking great SFs, I see (now) KD and LBJ.

And don't we still talk about KD's aggressiveness? But JG will never be top because...?
right.

Jeff has the skills to be a star. No one thought PG could be a star either until he was ASKED TO DO IT!!!

The Suns suck.  Players drop 30 on teams all the time.  Wade dropped 33 on Philly last night.

Jeff is totally stoppable.  He has a predictable offensive game.  He's good at a lot of things, but the only thing he is elite at is inconsistency.  If you think Jeff is going to play very well EVERY game, then please tell me what you're smoking, because I really want it.

Jeff doesn't have the talent to be a #1 option.  He is best suited as a contender's fourth best player.

George wasn't shown confidence by his coach.  He HAD to step up, because nobody else on that Pacers team (except David West) has the capability to be THE man.  And everyone has thought George was going to be a star, so you don't know what you're talking about when you say he came out of nowhere.  I like to have arguments with people who know their stuff.

I'm not a Melo or Gay fan either.  That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that they're good players.

He won't be a first option but second and third are possible too.
If anything, you guys blame him for being TOO consistent. He's playing at the same way he's been p,suing for seven years. He's had what twenty fifteen point games? He's been playing very well since January.

Yeah, he has been playing very well.  That doesn't mean he's going to be a top five SF in two years.

I'm not going to say that it's a given, but I agree with CelticConcourse that he has a very good shot at being a top five small forward in two years.  Kevin Durant, Lebron James, and Carmelo Anthony are superstars, and they presumably still will be two years from now, but after that guys like George, Gay, Batum, maybe Galinari, and a small sprinkling of other are very, very good players.  I don't think any of them are superstar material.  Jeff Green has the talent level to be considered among that group once he becomes a full time starter.  I don't think that's being overly unrealistic.

I can sort of agree with this.  I'm not saying Jeff will be not be good, I just don't think he will be considered in the same category as a LeBron, or a Durant, or a Carmelo.  I'm a firm believer Paul George will be better than Green in two years, possibly Gay, too.

Green will definitely be better than Batum and Gallinari in two years.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #289 on: February 24, 2013, 02:59:13 PM »

Offline CelticConcourse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6162
  • Tommy Points: 383
  • Jeff Green
Quote
You know why I don't think Green will be a top five SF?  Because the talent at that position is VERY good right now and for the future.  LeBron, Melo, George, Gay, etc.  these guys are better than Green right now, and will still be better in two years.

Look, I like Jeff, but he is NEVER going to be a top five SF.

That awkward moment when you only count four.

And George and Gay aren't going to be guaranteed better. The only two guaranteed are LeBron and KD.
Green is on the level of George, Batum, and MAYBE Gay.
So apart from LBJ, KD, and Melo, it's George, Green, Batum, Gay.

Is he top two out of those four? We can only hope. But I think he will be.

That awkward moment when you don't have any answers to my argument and try to nitpick.

You can add KD to that list.  Gay is going to be better than Green and so is George.

Gay and George are FAR better than Green right now.

Batum and Green are probably on the same level.

I'm not nitpicking. You pointed out four players better than him, which means Green could be the fifth.

Gay and George are not far better tha Green. Compare George's third year stats to those of Green's. see?

If anything, I would definitely take Batum over Gay too. I think you're lacking knowledge in how good Gay, Batum, George are.

Gay is an elite scorer.  George is an elite defender.  I said Batum and Green are on the same level.

I don't lack knowledge.  You just worship Green at an altar, and that's ok, just don't call me out on things that are false.

I will not.

Batum is better than Gay in  terms of all around game and efficiency.
George is not known for elite defense.
Gay is just a not-so-good Melo on a contract ten times worse than that of Green's. a great player but never an All-Star.

I take Gay over Batum every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  That's just something we cannot agree on.

What the hell is George known for?  Athleticism?  He's known for being a superb defender and can hit the three at a decent clip (just not in the three point contest).

I'll give you that Melo is better than Gay, and that his contract is bad, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player.  To put it in perspective, Batum is earning 11 million this year, and I'd argue he's overrated and is only the third best player on his team.  At least we know Gay is Toronto's best player.

OK, we will not agre on Batum, but he's been getting triple doubles and 5x5s like no other SF.
Gay is inefficient and in  Toronto, I don't see him or DeRozan or Ross ever becoming great. Too many SFs. In two years, I still see a high volume shooter who gets lots of points.

George, I admit I am not knowledgable on. But I think he is better than Green, as of today. In two years, it's up for grabs.

But for now, we can have reasonable hopes. Nothing shows Green can't improve, and this season is only helping him improve. He's cheaper tha Batum and Gay, and has good upside. I'm glad we locked him up.

2 more points

1. The reason you don't think JG will be a top 5 SF right now is because he's not even asked to be that right now. The diff is LBJ, PG, Melo are being asked to be #1 on their team. JG is asked to be...I'm not even sure anyone knows what number he's asked to be, but right now he's been #3 (#4 after Rondo) on this team. I'm hoping that will change as the season and next year progresses.

Does he have the skillset to be top 5? I absolutely think so. Why do we marvel at players like LBJ and PG and Gay and whomever? Because they make it look EASY. Did JG NOT make his 31 points look easy? on 14 shots? Wow. I've seen LBJ score 35 on 35 shots. Same for Melo. AND MELO BARELY PLAYS DEFENSE!!

Which one of the top 5 and rising play defense like JG?

2. I'm more than hopeful that guys like Nick and Vinnie hold Rondo to these amazingly high standards when he returns from knee surgery. We can all pretty much guarantee that Rondo is going to come back early/earlier than he should. And when he's not as explosive, has a bunch of TO's, I really hope there are no 'excuses' such as a brand spanking new (fake) ACL.

Hahaha, here we go:

You know why I don't think Green will be a top five SF?  Because the talent at that position is VERY good right now and for the future.  LeBron, Melo, George, Gay, etc.  these guys are better than Green right now, and will still be better in two years.

Green dropped 31 on the freaking Phoenix Suns.  That ain't special, bud.  Was it impressive?  Sure it was.  I'm glad Jeff is being aggressive, but you can't say that that game means he's gonna be a star.  That's ridiculous.

Who cares if Melo doesn't play defense?  He's still unstoppable on offense.  Jeff isn't, and he also isn't as good a defender as LeBron or George.  Jeff plays good defense, but it's nowhere near LeBron or George.

I'll hold Rondo to a high standard, and you wanna know why?  Because he should be healthy.  For all we know, Jeff came back too early.  Maybe he should've come back in January.

Look at Dwight Howard.  You can't tell me he came back ON TIME.  He looked really bad to start the season.  Now, he's playing better.

Derrick Rose probably isnt playing this season because he's not healthy.  That's a good decision by the Bulls.  It helps them long term.

I expect Rondo to come back healthy.  If he's not ready, keep him off the floor.  Next year is probably a wash, anyway.

Look, I like Jeff, but he is NEVER going to be a top five SF.

31 points against an NBA team. When JG has his games, who has stopped him? Who can stop him? What are you talking about...you think Jeff is stoppable? Mainly when he's double teamed, but I've not seen a ton of individual plays/players stop a determined Jeff.

Do I think he's ready now? no. and I said that...so we've got that. and I've also said that if Jeff was asked to be #1 on the team, I think we'd see an even HIGHER level of play from him.

I see little things that Jeff needs to work on. Go left. finish better. get a better handle. Things that have seemed to improve over the course of the season. But he's got a wonderful current skill set.

PG was shown confidence by his coach. and he just kinda came out of no where. and became the guy. I think the same can happen with JG.

I'm not a Melo fan. So you can take me out of that argument. He's a shooter. I don't see him being extremely efficient. I don't see him as a great defender. So when I'm talking great SFs, I see (now) KD and LBJ.

And don't we still talk about KD's aggressiveness? But JG will never be top because...?
right.

Jeff has the skills to be a star. No one thought PG could be a star either until he was ASKED TO DO IT!!!

The Suns suck.  Players drop 30 on teams all the time.  Wade dropped 33 on Philly last night.

Jeff is totally stoppable.  He has a predictable offensive game.  He's good at a lot of things, but the only thing he is elite at is inconsistency.  If you think Jeff is going to play very well EVERY game, then please tell me what you're smoking, because I really want it.

Jeff doesn't have the talent to be a #1 option.  He is best suited as a contender's fourth best player.

George wasn't shown confidence by his coach.  He HAD to step up, because nobody else on that Pacers team (except David West) has the capability to be THE man.  And everyone has thought George was going to be a star, so you don't know what you're talking about when you say he came out of nowhere.  I like to have arguments with people who know their stuff.

I'm not a Melo or Gay fan either.  That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that they're good players.

He won't be a first option but second and third are possible too.
If anything, you guys blame him for being TOO consistent. He's playing at the same way he's been p,suing for seven years. He's had what twenty fifteen point games? He's been playing very well since January.

Yeah, he has been playing very well.  That doesn't mean he's going to be a top five SF in two years.

I'm not going to say that it's a given, but I agree with CelticConcourse that he has a very good shot at being a top five small forward in two years.  Kevin Durant, Lebron James, and Carmelo Anthony are superstars, and they presumably still will be two years from now, but after that guys like George, Gay, Batum, maybe Galinari, and a small sprinkling of other are very, very good players.  I don't think any of them are superstar material.  Jeff Green has the talent level to be considered among that group once he becomes a full time starter.  I don't think that's being overly unrealistic.

I can sort of agree with this.  I'm not saying Jeff will be not be good, I just don't think he will be considered in the same category as a LeBron, or a Durant, or a Carmelo.  I'm a firm believer Paul George will be better than Green in two years, possibly Gay, too.

Green will definitely be better than Batum and Gallinari in two years.

Consensus reached. Then. He's top 6 in your eyes, and my eyes too. Third is the crazy hope. Fourth is what we would really want. Fifth is what we can try to expect
Jeff Green - Top 5 SF

[Kevin Garnett]
"I've always said J. Green is going to be one of the best players to ever play this game"

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #290 on: February 24, 2013, 03:03:56 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1571
  • Tommy Points: 116
  • Everyone's excited for the new era.
Quote
You know why I don't think Green will be a top five SF?  Because the talent at that position is VERY good right now and for the future.  LeBron, Melo, George, Gay, etc.  these guys are better than Green right now, and will still be better in two years.

Look, I like Jeff, but he is NEVER going to be a top five SF.

That awkward moment when you only count four.

And George and Gay aren't going to be guaranteed better. The only two guaranteed are LeBron and KD.
Green is on the level of George, Batum, and MAYBE Gay.
So apart from LBJ, KD, and Melo, it's George, Green, Batum, Gay.

Is he top two out of those four? We can only hope. But I think he will be.

That awkward moment when you don't have any answers to my argument and try to nitpick.

You can add KD to that list.  Gay is going to be better than Green and so is George.

Gay and George are FAR better than Green right now.

Batum and Green are probably on the same level.

I'm not nitpicking. You pointed out four players better than him, which means Green could be the fifth.

Gay and George are not far better tha Green. Compare George's third year stats to those of Green's. see?

If anything, I would definitely take Batum over Gay too. I think you're lacking knowledge in how good Gay, Batum, George are.

Gay is an elite scorer.  George is an elite defender.  I said Batum and Green are on the same level.

I don't lack knowledge.  You just worship Green at an altar, and that's ok, just don't call me out on things that are false.

I will not.

Batum is better than Gay in  terms of all around game and efficiency.
George is not known for elite defense.
Gay is just a not-so-good Melo on a contract ten times worse than that of Green's. a great player but never an All-Star.

I take Gay over Batum every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  That's just something we cannot agree on.

What the hell is George known for?  Athleticism?  He's known for being a superb defender and can hit the three at a decent clip (just not in the three point contest).

I'll give you that Melo is better than Gay, and that his contract is bad, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player.  To put it in perspective, Batum is earning 11 million this year, and I'd argue he's overrated and is only the third best player on his team.  At least we know Gay is Toronto's best player.

OK, we will not agre on Batum, but he's been getting triple doubles and 5x5s like no other SF.
Gay is inefficient and in  Toronto, I don't see him or DeRozan or Ross ever becoming great. Too many SFs. In two years, I still see a high volume shooter who gets lots of points.

George, I admit I am not knowledgable on. But I think he is better than Green, as of today. In two years, it's up for grabs.

But for now, we can have reasonable hopes. Nothing shows Green can't improve, and this season is only helping him improve. He's cheaper tha Batum and Gay, and has good upside. I'm glad we locked him up.

2 more points

1. The reason you don't think JG will be a top 5 SF right now is because he's not even asked to be that right now. The diff is LBJ, PG, Melo are being asked to be #1 on their team. JG is asked to be...I'm not even sure anyone knows what number he's asked to be, but right now he's been #3 (#4 after Rondo) on this team. I'm hoping that will change as the season and next year progresses.

Does he have the skillset to be top 5? I absolutely think so. Why do we marvel at players like LBJ and PG and Gay and whomever? Because they make it look EASY. Did JG NOT make his 31 points look easy? on 14 shots? Wow. I've seen LBJ score 35 on 35 shots. Same for Melo. AND MELO BARELY PLAYS DEFENSE!!

Which one of the top 5 and rising play defense like JG?

2. I'm more than hopeful that guys like Nick and Vinnie hold Rondo to these amazingly high standards when he returns from knee surgery. We can all pretty much guarantee that Rondo is going to come back early/earlier than he should. And when he's not as explosive, has a bunch of TO's, I really hope there are no 'excuses' such as a brand spanking new (fake) ACL.

Hahaha, here we go:

You know why I don't think Green will be a top five SF?  Because the talent at that position is VERY good right now and for the future.  LeBron, Melo, George, Gay, etc.  these guys are better than Green right now, and will still be better in two years.

Green dropped 31 on the freaking Phoenix Suns.  That ain't special, bud.  Was it impressive?  Sure it was.  I'm glad Jeff is being aggressive, but you can't say that that game means he's gonna be a star.  That's ridiculous.

Who cares if Melo doesn't play defense?  He's still unstoppable on offense.  Jeff isn't, and he also isn't as good a defender as LeBron or George.  Jeff plays good defense, but it's nowhere near LeBron or George.

I'll hold Rondo to a high standard, and you wanna know why?  Because he should be healthy.  For all we know, Jeff came back too early.  Maybe he should've come back in January.

Look at Dwight Howard.  You can't tell me he came back ON TIME.  He looked really bad to start the season.  Now, he's playing better.

Derrick Rose probably isnt playing this season because he's not healthy.  That's a good decision by the Bulls.  It helps them long term.

I expect Rondo to come back healthy.  If he's not ready, keep him off the floor.  Next year is probably a wash, anyway.

Look, I like Jeff, but he is NEVER going to be a top five SF.

31 points against an NBA team. When JG has his games, who has stopped him? Who can stop him? What are you talking about...you think Jeff is stoppable? Mainly when he's double teamed, but I've not seen a ton of individual plays/players stop a determined Jeff.

Do I think he's ready now? no. and I said that...so we've got that. and I've also said that if Jeff was asked to be #1 on the team, I think we'd see an even HIGHER level of play from him.

I see little things that Jeff needs to work on. Go left. finish better. get a better handle. Things that have seemed to improve over the course of the season. But he's got a wonderful current skill set.

PG was shown confidence by his coach. and he just kinda came out of no where. and became the guy. I think the same can happen with JG.

I'm not a Melo fan. So you can take me out of that argument. He's a shooter. I don't see him being extremely efficient. I don't see him as a great defender. So when I'm talking great SFs, I see (now) KD and LBJ.

And don't we still talk about KD's aggressiveness? But JG will never be top because...?
right.

Jeff has the skills to be a star. No one thought PG could be a star either until he was ASKED TO DO IT!!!

The Suns suck.  Players drop 30 on teams all the time.  Wade dropped 33 on Philly last night.

Jeff is totally stoppable.  He has a predictable offensive game.  He's good at a lot of things, but the only thing he is elite at is inconsistency.  If you think Jeff is going to play very well EVERY game, then please tell me what you're smoking, because I really want it.

Jeff doesn't have the talent to be a #1 option.  He is best suited as a contender's fourth best player.

George wasn't shown confidence by his coach.  He HAD to step up, because nobody else on that Pacers team (except David West) has the capability to be THE man.  And everyone has thought George was going to be a star, so you don't know what you're talking about when you say he came out of nowhere.  I like to have arguments with people who know their stuff.

I'm not a Melo or Gay fan either.  That doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that they're good players.

He won't be a first option but second and third are possible too.
If anything, you guys blame him for being TOO consistent. He's playing at the same way he's been p,suing for seven years. He's had what twenty fifteen point games? He's been playing very well since January.

Yeah, he has been playing very well.  That doesn't mean he's going to be a top five SF in two years.

I'm not going to say that it's a given, but I agree with CelticConcourse that he has a very good shot at being a top five small forward in two years.  Kevin Durant, Lebron James, and Carmelo Anthony are superstars, and they presumably still will be two years from now, but after that guys like George, Gay, Batum, maybe Galinari, and a small sprinkling of other are very, very good players.  I don't think any of them are superstar material.  Jeff Green has the talent level to be considered among that group once he becomes a full time starter.  I don't think that's being overly unrealistic.

I can sort of agree with this.  I'm not saying Jeff will be not be good, I just don't think he will be considered in the same category as a LeBron, or a Durant, or a Carmelo.  I'm a firm believer Paul George will be better than Green in two years, possibly Gay, too.

Green will definitely be better than Batum and Gallinari in two years.

Consensus reached. Then. He's top 6 in your eyes, and my eyes too. Third is the crazy hope. Fourth is what we would really want. Fifth is what we can try to expect

TP for the uber-epic argument, CC.  Glad we could reach an agreement.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #291 on: February 24, 2013, 03:07:02 PM »

Offline vinnie

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8654
  • Tommy Points: 429
Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA.  Heck, the guy had to relearn how to walk roughly a year ago and he's been dunking on NBA players.

-Three point range
-Elite athleticism
-Great length
-Elite defense
-Moderate ball handling
-Moderate court vision
-Moderate passing
-Great finisher


I really don't see how people can think he WONT be a top 5 SF.  It's not like there are a ton of people you can put as locks.  Melo, Lebron, Durant and then a whole lot of middle tier guys like George, Gay, Deng.   Green certainly as the ability and is arguably already pretty close and just needs more minutes.

"Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA." Huh. Where did you get this alleged information?

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #292 on: February 24, 2013, 03:37:25 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA.  Heck, the guy had to relearn how to walk roughly a year ago and he's been dunking on NBA players.

-Three point range
-Elite athleticism
-Great length
-Elite defense
-Moderate ball handling
-Moderate court vision
-Moderate passing
-Great finisher


I really don't see how people can think he WONT be a top 5 SF.  It's not like there are a ton of people you can put as locks.  Melo, Lebron, Durant and then a whole lot of middle tier guys like George, Gay, Deng.   Green certainly as the ability and is arguably already pretty close and just needs more minutes.

"Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA." Huh. Where did you get this alleged information?

one of the many specials. I never watched the ESPN
it could also be on one of the articles Jackie wrote
but the doctors said it's a 2 year recovery time and they don't see him being completely unaffected by it until 2 years after the surgery.

the option was there to not play another year. but of course, he wanted to play.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #293 on: February 24, 2013, 03:39:52 PM »

Offline vinnie

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8654
  • Tommy Points: 429
Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA.  Heck, the guy had to relearn how to walk roughly a year ago and he's been dunking on NBA players.

-Three point range
-Elite athleticism
-Great length
-Elite defense
-Moderate ball handling
-Moderate court vision
-Moderate passing
-Great finisher


I really don't see how people can think he WONT be a top 5 SF.  It's not like there are a ton of people you can put as locks.  Melo, Lebron, Durant and then a whole lot of middle tier guys like George, Gay, Deng.   Green certainly as the ability and is arguably already pretty close and just needs more minutes.

"Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA." Huh. Where did you get this alleged information?

one of the many specials. I never watched the ESPN
it could also be on one of the articles Jackie wrote
but the doctors said it's a 2 year recovery time and they don't see him being completely unaffected by it until 2 years after the surgery.

the option was there to not play another year. but of course, he wanted to play.

Interesting. I would think that if there was any danger in him playing he would not be allowed to play. I have never seen or head this anywhere.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #294 on: February 24, 2013, 03:46:22 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1182
  • Tommy Points: 80
Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA.  Heck, the guy had to relearn how to walk roughly a year ago and he's been dunking on NBA players.

-Three point range
-Elite athleticism
-Great length
-Elite defense
-Moderate ball handling
-Moderate court vision
-Moderate passing
-Great finisher


I really don't see how people can think he WONT be a top 5 SF.  It's not like there are a ton of people you can put as locks.  Melo, Lebron, Durant and then a whole lot of middle tier guys like George, Gay, Deng.   Green certainly as the ability and is arguably already pretty close and just needs more minutes.

"Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA." Huh. Where did you get this alleged information?

one of the many specials. I never watched the ESPN
it could also be on one of the articles Jackie wrote
but the doctors said it's a 2 year recovery time and they don't see him being completely unaffected by it until 2 years after the surgery.

the option was there to not play another year. but of course, he wanted to play.

Interesting. I would think that if there was any danger in him playing he would not be allowed to play. I have never seen or head this anywhere.

Quote
The Boston Celtics announced Saturday that forward Jeff Green will undergo heart surgery next month and will miss the entire 2011-12 season.

A routine physical administered after Green agreed to a one-year, $9 million contract with the Celtics last week detected an aortic aneurysm.

After consulting with leading cardiac specialists, the decision was made to completely repair Green's condition, and doctors indicated to him that he should be able to resume his basketball career during the 2012-13 season.

This is from ESPN's article after it was announced that Jeff Green was having heart surgery.

The NBA and the Boston Celtics wouldn't have Jeff Green on the floor if he were under some serious risk this season.  I don't mean to undersell the seriousness of heart surgery, but doctors expected Jeff Green to play this season.  That report you saw must have been about someone else.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #295 on: February 24, 2013, 03:48:02 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA.  Heck, the guy had to relearn how to walk roughly a year ago and he's been dunking on NBA players.

-Three point range
-Elite athleticism
-Great length
-Elite defense
-Moderate ball handling
-Moderate court vision
-Moderate passing
-Great finisher


I really don't see how people can think he WONT be a top 5 SF.  It's not like there are a ton of people you can put as locks.  Melo, Lebron, Durant and then a whole lot of middle tier guys like George, Gay, Deng.   Green certainly as the ability and is arguably already pretty close and just needs more minutes.

"Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA." Huh. Where did you get this alleged information?

one of the many specials. I never watched the ESPN
it could also be on one of the articles Jackie wrote
but the doctors said it's a 2 year recovery time and they don't see him being completely unaffected by it until 2 years after the surgery.

the option was there to not play another year. but of course, he wanted to play.

Interesting. I would think that if there was any danger in him playing he would not be allowed to play. I have never seen or head this anywhere.

yes. Jackies article

Quote
"It just didn't seem realistic that he'd be back," Falk said.

That was in January 2012. Two months later, Green was walking gingerly on a treadmill. By spring, he was working with a trainer Falk arranged for him. And when he was cleared in July for contact, he showed up at Georgetown's McDonough Gym to play pickup.

"He's a gym rat," Big John Thompson said. "Always has been. The thing that scared me the most once he started coming around again was how hard he was working.

"I pulled him aside and said, 'Are you all right? Should you be doing this?'"

Green's medical team told him it will be a full two years before he will completely recover. There will be tightness in his chest. There will be strange pains that will go unexplained. He will have days when he will be completely exhausted.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/8949730/jeff-green-flourishing-boston-celtics-harness-energy

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #296 on: February 24, 2013, 03:54:14 PM »

Offline kgainez

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1126
  • Tommy Points: 54
Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA.  Heck, the guy had to relearn how to walk roughly a year ago and he's been dunking on NBA players.

-Three point range
-Elite athleticism
-Great length
-Elite defense
-Moderate ball handling
-Moderate court vision
-Moderate passing
-Great finisher


I really don't see how people can think he WONT be a top 5 SF.  It's not like there are a ton of people you can put as locks.  Melo, Lebron, Durant and then a whole lot of middle tier guys like George, Gay, Deng.   Green certainly as the ability and is arguably already pretty close and just needs more minutes.

"Green's doctors told him he wouldn't even be able to play this year and it'd be another year before he could play in the NBA." Huh. Where did you get this alleged information?

one of the many specials. I never watched the ESPN
it could also be on one of the articles Jackie wrote
but the doctors said it's a 2 year recovery time and they don't see him being completely unaffected by it until 2 years after the surgery.

the option was there to not play another year. but of course, he wanted to play.

Interesting. I would think that if there was any danger in him playing he would not be allowed to play. I have never seen or head this anywhere.

Quote
The Boston Celtics announced Saturday that forward Jeff Green will undergo heart surgery next month and will miss the entire 2011-12 season.

A routine physical administered after Green agreed to a one-year, $9 million contract with the Celtics last week detected an aortic aneurysm.

After consulting with leading cardiac specialists, the decision was made to completely repair Green's condition, and doctors indicated to him that he should be able to resume his basketball career during the 2012-13 season.

This is from ESPN's article after it was announced that Jeff Green was having heart surgery.

The NBA and the Boston Celtics wouldn't have Jeff Green on the floor if he were under some serious risk this season.  I don't mean to undersell the seriousness of heart surgery, but doctors expected Jeff Green to play this season.  That report you saw must have been about someone else.

it wasn't.
because what you copy and pasted said he SHOULD be able to resume.
just like D Rose and Bynum SHOULD come back this year (those it's looking slimmer and slimmer).

please read the article I just posted
http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/8949730/jeff-green-flourishing-boston-celtics-harness-energy

they said it'd take a full 2 years before he was FULLY recovered.
he can play, but he'll still feel some things.

everyone just would like to continue to take away the serious of having a blockage in your arteries.
yall ever knew anyone who had a stroke or heart attack? cuz we could say that's not serious then. THAT'S what Jeff was in risk of.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #297 on: February 24, 2013, 04:06:08 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30859
  • Tommy Points: 1327
I thought Green's doctor's said it'd be two years for him to fully come back physically, not get back to playing. Said he'd still have sporadic weakness and sudden pains even after he was fully cleared. That sort of thing.

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #298 on: February 24, 2013, 04:07:57 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1182
  • Tommy Points: 80
I thought Green's doctor's said it'd be two years for him to fully come back physically, not get back to playing. Said he'd still have sporadic weakness and sudden pains even after he was fully cleared. That sort of thing.

That's what I've seen and read too (including in that Jackie MacMullan article).

Re: Jeff Green - top 5 SF in 2 years
« Reply #299 on: February 24, 2013, 04:11:41 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
There was a recent game during which Green spent much of 3rd or 4th quarter on the bench grabbing his chest as if in pain.