Author Topic: Kyrie > Rondo  (Read 15477 times)

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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #210 on: January 24, 2013, 10:11:56 AM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

This.

Paul and KG led our title run.

Paul, Ray, and Rondo in '09.

Paul and Rondo in '10.

The Big 4 were all ok in '11.

KG and Rondo last year.

As you can see, Rondo has never been the focal point of a playoff run.  He's always needed one or more of the vets to take on a load.

This year, I have concerns that we are relying too much on Pierce and KG.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #211 on: January 24, 2013, 10:13:14 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

Are you trying to say that Rondo was no more than our fourth most important player in either 2010 or last year, or are you trying to say that neither of those seasons count as deep playoff runs? 
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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #212 on: January 24, 2013, 10:32:40 AM »

Offline BballTim

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

This.

Paul and KG led our title run.

Paul, Ray, and Rondo in '09.

Paul and Rondo in '10.

The Big 4 were all ok in '11.

KG and Rondo last year.

As you can see, Rondo has never been the focal point of a playoff run.  He's always needed one or more of the vets to take on a load.

This year, I have concerns that we are relying too much on Pierce and KG.

  First of all he's claiming that the big three and not Rondo led the playoff runs, so you're disagreeing with the post you're agreeing with when you claim it was, for instance, Rondo and KG and not the big 3 in 2012. Secondly, how many players lead teams to deep playoff runs when nobody else on the team takes on a load? Certainly not players like PP, KG, RA, KD, Shaq, Kobe, Wade or Dirk. LeBron maybe?


Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #213 on: January 24, 2013, 10:32:59 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

Are you trying to say that Rondo was no more than our fourth most important player in either 2010 or last year, or are you trying to say that neither of those seasons count as deep playoff runs?
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I've bolded it for you.
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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #214 on: January 24, 2013, 10:36:48 AM »

Offline BballTim

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

Are you trying to say that Rondo was no more than our fourth most important player in either 2010 or last year, or are you trying to say that neither of those seasons count as deep playoff runs?
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I've bolded it for you.

  I don't think that what you bolded is any clearer than "Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs". Did you leave Rondo's name out of the sentence by accident?

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #215 on: January 24, 2013, 10:39:59 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

Are you trying to say that Rondo was no more than our fourth most important player in either 2010 or last year, or are you trying to say that neither of those seasons count as deep playoff runs?
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I've bolded it for you.

Fine.  Thanks anyway for your contributions.  If you just want to be obstinate, vague, contradictory, and snappy, without feeling the need to explain or expand on your somewhat inconsistent posts, that's cool.

By the way, you misspelled contending.
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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #216 on: January 24, 2013, 10:44:09 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

Are you trying to say that Rondo was no more than our fourth most important player in either 2010 or last year, or are you trying to say that neither of those seasons count as deep playoff runs?
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I've bolded it for you.

  I don't think that what you bolded is any clearer than "Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs". Did you leave Rondo's name out of the sentence by accident?
Is that an attempt to be sarcastic?

The post I am trying to reply to claim that people who think Rondo cannot be the best player ignore how he "led our last four deep playoff runs".

It's pretty simple: nobody is ignoring it, because Rondo was never the best or the most important player on those playoff runs. Kevin Garnett was. At different points of those four years, Pierce, Allen and Rondo have alternated in the second banana spot, but even for that I'd give the nod to Pierce before anyone else.

Now that Garnett and Pierce have clearly lost a step and can no longer do what they did a couple of years ago, Rondo is the undisputed best player on the team. You see this team contending for anything any time soon?
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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #217 on: January 24, 2013, 10:44:38 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

Are you trying to say that Rondo was no more than our fourth most important player in either 2010 or last year, or are you trying to say that neither of those seasons count as deep playoff runs?
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I've bolded it for you.

Fine.  Thanks anyway for your contributions.  If you just want to be obstinate, vague, contradictory, and snappy, without feeling the need to explain or expand on your somewhat inconsistent posts, that's cool.

By the way, you misspelled contending.

Like button. TP.
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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #218 on: January 24, 2013, 10:51:37 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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By the way, you misspelled contending.
I'm sure I did. Glad to be talking to smart people who are able to understand what I mean regardless.
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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #219 on: January 24, 2013, 10:57:59 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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Amazing how quickly the mob turns....Makes me wonder if they play in Boston or Springfield

I'm not sure it takes a mob mentality to consider an opposing player better than one of ours.

I wasn't directing that at you Roy, but I see a lot of "Rondo needs to go" or "We're better without him" talk on the site lately. Maybe this wasn't the best thread to say that in.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #220 on: January 24, 2013, 10:58:13 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

Are you trying to say that Rondo was no more than our fourth most important player in either 2010 or last year, or are you trying to say that neither of those seasons count as deep playoff runs?
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I've bolded it for you.

  I don't think that what you bolded is any clearer than "Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs". Did you leave Rondo's name out of the sentence by accident?
Is that an attempt to be sarcastic?

The post I am trying to reply to claim that people who think Rondo cannot be the best player ignore how he "led our last four deep playoff runs".

It's pretty simple: nobody is ignoring it, because Rondo was never the best or the most important player on those playoff runs. Kevin Garnett was. At different points of those four years, Pierce, Allen and Rondo have alternated in the second banana spot, but even for that I'd give the nod to Pierce before anyone else.

Now that Garnett and Pierce have clearly lost a step and can no longer do what they did a couple of years ago, Rondo is the undisputed best player on the team. You see this team contending for anything any time soon?

I do actually think this team can contend for something some time soon.  If Rajon Rondo can put up one of the transcendent performances that we've seen from him on a number occasions in recent playoffs and Pierce and Garnett can find their legs and their games with some consistency against the Miami Heat in this years playoffs, then I still think we have a good chance to pull the upset.  If we can pull that upset--be it in the first round, the second, or the conference finals--then I think we have a nice shot to be in the NBA finals. 

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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #221 on: January 24, 2013, 10:58:36 AM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

This.

Paul and KG led our title run.

Paul, Ray, and Rondo in '09.

Paul and Rondo in '10.

The Big 4 were all ok in '11.

KG and Rondo last year.

As you can see, Rondo has never been the focal point of a playoff run.  He's always needed one or more of the vets to take on a load.

This year, I have concerns that we are relying too much on Pierce and KG.

  First of all he's claiming that the big three and not Rondo led the playoff runs, so you're disagreeing with the post you're agreeing with when you claim it was, for instance, Rondo and KG and not the big 3 in 2012. Secondly, how many players lead teams to deep playoff runs when nobody else on the team takes on a load? Certainly not players like PP, KG, RA, KD, Shaq, Kobe, Wade or Dirk. LeBron maybe?

All me to clarify:

Of all our playoff runs, we haven't had a single player be the main reason we got to where we were.  When I hear posters say, "Rondo led us deep into the playoffs," I find that to be absurd.  It takes more than one guy for this team to succeed.  By that I mean, it takes more than one player to perform well consistently in the playoffs.  The list I made above is pretty accurate, to me.

Look, I get that Rondo plays a key part, but I'd be lying if I said, "Rondo's the main reason we made those runs."  That's selling the Big 3 VERY short.

So when I say I agree with kozlodev I mean I agree that Rondo wasn't the focal point of our recent playoff success.  Rather, it was a mixture of Rondo and the vets.  And like I said, we are relying on Pierce and KG WAY too much this year.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #222 on: January 24, 2013, 11:00:46 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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By the way, you misspelled contending.
I'm sure I did. Glad to be talking to smart people who are able to understand what I mean regardless.

Thanks for the complement. 
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Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #223 on: January 24, 2013, 11:03:34 AM »

Offline BballTim

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This has been an interesting debate.  I'm still not sure why none of the posters who claim that Irving is a superior player to Rondo, or think that Rondo can't be the best player on a contending team, refuse to take into consideration the way that Rondo has led this team deep into the playoffs over the course of the past four seasons.
Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs, and now that they're not able to anymore, Rondo can't even lead the team to a .500 record.

Rondo wasn't the best player on any of those contenting teams. He's the best player on the team now, and we're observing the results first-hand.

Are you trying to say that Rondo was no more than our fourth most important player in either 2010 or last year, or are you trying to say that neither of those seasons count as deep playoff runs?
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying. I've bolded it for you.

  I don't think that what you bolded is any clearer than "Because it's quite obvious that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen lead this team deep into the playoffs". Did you leave Rondo's name out of the sentence by accident?
Is that an attempt to be sarcastic?

The post I am trying to reply to claim that people who think Rondo cannot be the best player ignore how he "led our last four deep playoff runs".

It's pretty simple: nobody is ignoring it, because Rondo was never the best or the most important player on those playoff runs. Kevin Garnett was. At different points of those four years, Pierce, Allen and Rondo have alternated in the second banana spot, but even for that I'd give the nod to Pierce before anyone else.

Now that Garnett and Pierce have clearly lost a step and can no longer do what they did a couple of years ago, Rondo is the undisputed best player on the team. You see this team contending for anything any time soon?

  Rondo wasn't second banana last year and he wasn't in 2010. KG and PP didn't just lose a step right now, this year, for KG it happened when he blew out his knee, for Pierce it's been gradual over the last few years.

Re: Kyrie > Rondo
« Reply #224 on: January 24, 2013, 11:07:12 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Quote from: CelticsFan9

All me to clarify:

Of all our playoff runs, we haven't had a single player be the main reason we got to where we were.  When I hear posters say, "Rondo led us deep into the playoffs," I find that to be absurd.  It takes more than one guy for this team to succeed.  By that I mean, it takes more than one player to perform well consistently in the playoffs.  The list I made above is pretty accurate, to me.

Look, I get that Rondo plays a key part, but I'd be lying if I said, "Rondo's the main reason we made those runs."  That's selling the Big 3 VERY short.

So when I say I agree with kozlodev I mean I agree that Rondo wasn't the focal point of our recent playoff success.  Rather, it was a mixture of Rondo and the vets.  And like I said, we are relying on Pierce and KG WAY too much this year.
I tend to agree with this, although I'd claim that Garnett was more instrumental to these runs than any other player on our roster.

I think Rondo is a great player. I think he'll be an amazing second best player, who can absolutely kill you while you're busy stopping the team's best player. But he's patently unfit to be a top dog pretty much for the same reason for which Dwight Howard is: isn't a great scorer, isn't a great shooter, and can't make his free throws.

You can harp all you want about his overall contribution to the game (which is undeniable), but the pattern that has emerged from the decline of Pierce and Garnett as primary offensive options is hard to argue with.
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