Author Topic: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....  (Read 3881 times)

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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2013, 11:01:13 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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I love what the Cavs are doing in cases like this. If only they could draft well.
you seem to imply they haven't been, which hasn't been the case at all (at least since Ferry was booted).  Irving was a no brainer, Thompson has been very good (esp. post-Varejao), Waiters is looking like a real player, and Zeller has been a monster since Varejao went out.  4 first round picks in the last two years and all 4 seem like real players and great value for the spot taken.
Irving is the only one I am really sold on at this stage.

Jury is still out on the other three.

Thompson is very raw and is already a double double machine. He has the potential to be a very good player. Too early to tell on the other two but they are doing a nice job of going the OKC route.

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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2013, 11:06:27 AM »

Offline RJ87

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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2013, 11:08:02 AM »

Online Moranis

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I love what the Cavs are doing in cases like this. If only they could draft well.
you seem to imply they haven't been, which hasn't been the case at all (at least since Ferry was booted).  Irving was a no brainer, Thompson has been very good (esp. post-Varejao), Waiters is looking like a real player, and Zeller has been a monster since Varejao went out.  4 first round picks in the last two years and all 4 seem like real players and great value for the spot taken.
Irving is the only one I am really sold on at this stage.

Jury is still out on the other three.
Thompson on the year is averaging 10.3 and 9.3.  In his last 10 (just about coinciding with Andy going down) he is up to 14.1 and 11.9.  Not bad for a 21 year old second year man.  Zeller has picked it up a lot since Andy went down as well pulling his last 10 averages to 9.1 and 7.8, not bad for a rookie center.  And Waiters seems like a monster scorer, upping his scoring in his last 10 to 16.3 (and jumping his FG% more than 5% above his season average, though it is still bad).  Not bad for a 21 year old rookie. 

Obviously they are young guys, but if you re-did the drafts, I think all of those guys would be picked where they were or higher, at least based on their careers thus far.  That doesn't say miss to me.
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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2013, 11:22:24 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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I love what the Cavs are doing in cases like this. If only they could draft well.
you seem to imply they haven't been, which hasn't been the case at all (at least since Ferry was booted).  Irving was a no brainer, Thompson has been very good (esp. post-Varejao), Waiters is looking like a real player, and Zeller has been a monster since Varejao went out.  4 first round picks in the last two years and all 4 seem like real players and great value for the spot taken.
Irving is the only one I am really sold on at this stage.

Jury is still out on the other three.
Thompson on the year is averaging 10.3 and 9.3.  In his last 10 (just about coinciding with Andy going down) he is up to 14.1 and 11.9.  Not bad for a 21 year old second year man.  Zeller has picked it up a lot since Andy went down as well pulling his last 10 averages to 9.1 and 7.8, not bad for a rookie center.  And Waiters seems like a monster scorer, upping his scoring in his last 10 to 16.3 (and jumping his FG% more than 5% above his season average, though it is still bad).  Not bad for a 21 year old rookie. 

Obviously they are young guys, but if you re-did the drafts, I think all of those guys would be picked where they were or higher, at least based on their careers thus far.  That doesn't say miss to me.

I don't buy it. I think you're looking at inflated numbers on a bad team. These guys just don't pass the eye test. Granted, I'm not watching Cavs basketball year round, but the 4 or 5 times I've seen them play the teams looked like a complete disaster (outside of Irving).

EDIT: oof, forgot how bad last years draft was. There's still a bunch of guys behind Thompson I'd rather have but not as many as I had expected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_Draft

This year, however, there's a lot of guys I'd pick before Waiters. Who seems like a really poor fit for Irving
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 11:33:47 AM by StartOrien »
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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2013, 11:39:06 AM »

Online Moranis

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I love what the Cavs are doing in cases like this. If only they could draft well.
you seem to imply they haven't been, which hasn't been the case at all (at least since Ferry was booted).  Irving was a no brainer, Thompson has been very good (esp. post-Varejao), Waiters is looking like a real player, and Zeller has been a monster since Varejao went out.  4 first round picks in the last two years and all 4 seem like real players and great value for the spot taken.
Irving is the only one I am really sold on at this stage.

Jury is still out on the other three.
Thompson on the year is averaging 10.3 and 9.3.  In his last 10 (just about coinciding with Andy going down) he is up to 14.1 and 11.9.  Not bad for a 21 year old second year man.  Zeller has picked it up a lot since Andy went down as well pulling his last 10 averages to 9.1 and 7.8, not bad for a rookie center.  And Waiters seems like a monster scorer, upping his scoring in his last 10 to 16.3 (and jumping his FG% more than 5% above his season average, though it is still bad).  Not bad for a 21 year old rookie. 

Obviously they are young guys, but if you re-did the drafts, I think all of those guys would be picked where they were or higher, at least based on their careers thus far.  That doesn't say miss to me.

I don't buy it. I think you're looking at inflated numbers on a bad team. These guys just don't pass the eye test. Granted, I'm not watching Cavs basketball year round, but the 4 or 5 times I've seen them play the teams looked like a complete disaster (outside of Irving).

EDIT: oof, forgot how bad last years draft was. There's still a bunch of guys behind Thompson I'd rather have but not as many as I had expected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NBA_Draft

This year, however, there's a lot of guys I'd pick before Waiters.
The thing is most of those guys aren't on bad teams, yet they are producing like the Cavs guys are.  Waiters for example, has clearly out performed MKG and Beal to this point.  You still might draft MKG and Beal ahead of him for potential reasons, but not if you look at actually production, which would have this past draft as 1. Davis, 2. Lillard, 3. Drummond, and 4. Waiters.  Zeller would probably come in around 7 or 8.   

Last Years draft based on production thus far
1. Irving
2. Faried
3. Vucevic
4. T. Thompson

Now sure a guy like Valanciunas has more potential and guys like Walker are better scorers, but I think Thompson goes 4th again based on actual production, and again all of those guys are essentially on bad teams (except Faried).
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 02:00:41 PM by Moranis »
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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2013, 11:47:15 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Quote
Last Years draft based on production thus far
1. Irving
2. Faried
3. Vucevic
4. T. Thompson

Off the top of my head Kawhi Leonard and Klay Thompson are pretty big omissions on that list. From a prospect standpoint Valancunias seems to be a much better option.

Add Iman Shumpert to the list for sure too.

To me, Thompson has Hakim Warrick written all over him. A guy that can put up numbers without making any kind of real impact on the game.
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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2013, 12:05:31 PM »

Online Lucky17

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Nice job by the Cavs. I saw something on the ESPN crawl this morning, but could have sworn it said the pick was going from Cleveland to Memphis (which I thought strange at the time).

I like the Speights pickup for Cleveland. They needed more size, with AV now out for the season. Ellington becomes, what, the 17th wing on the Cavs roster?
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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2013, 12:19:06 PM »

Offline Who

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My views on Thompson + Zeller ...

I think Tristan Thompson is already an above average defender and rebounder for the power forward position with excellent defensive potential. However, he has shown little to no skill-level offensively yet. He has no jump shot. He has no shot-creation skills. He is not a passer. He is strictly a finisher around the basket.

On a decent team, Thompson wouldn't get more than 15-20 minutes a night due to his offensive limitations. The only reason he is playing so much and putting up such numbers is because the Cavs suck.

Until he shows more offensive talent, I think Thompson is very much a question as far as star-talent goes ... but I do think he will be at least a solid rotation player for a long time. He is already a serviceable backup PF due to his solid defense and rebounding. By adding a passable jump-shot and fulfilling that high end defensive potential, Thompson can become a Taj Gibson like player (high end role player, glue guy). So I believe Thompson has good pedigree as a long term contributor but still has a lot of uncertainty as far as star talent.

I think Tyler Zeller is a deficient defender and rebounder at the center position. Too much of a lightweight in each department to ever be a quality starter. His potential maxes out as high end backup center but I think he is more likely to end up a middle of the pack to slightly above average backup center than a high end one. Good jump-shot and mobility.

I don't know what to make of Waiters yet. Too early.

Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2013, 01:47:41 PM »

Online pearljammer10

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Interesting.

I didnt like it for the Grizz at first but if those signings are actually true then its not bad. They are still soooo thing up front however.  They save about 6 mil in cap and wont have to trade Gay or Randolph. Keepign that lineup intact was the smartest move to make. Thin bench, especially up front.

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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2013, 01:48:44 PM »

Online pearljammer10

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Also, Gibson has to be on the verge of a trade for the Cavs Im guessing.
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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2013, 01:49:33 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Clearly Memphis needs to go sign Kenyon Martin  :D.

West, TA, K Mart, Z Bo. LOL that locker room is reality TV.

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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2013, 01:51:21 PM »

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Other updates.

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Ronald Tillery: Source confirms Speights, Ellington, Selby and protected first in 2015 to Cavs. Griz receive Jon Leuer and $6.4 million trade exception Twitter @CAGrizBlog


Quote
Chris Vernon: More News: If Grizzlies don't sign Walker/West - are considering Micah Downs, Eddie House, or Joe Ingles (currently in Barcelona) Twitter @ChrisVernonShow


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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2013, 01:57:52 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Good deal for Cleveland. It's a good deal for Memphis when you consider this the alternative to moving Gay or Randolph.

On a personal not I'm unhappy with this trade, because most of the trades I made up on the trade machine involve us giving Memphis Bass and Terry Us getting a big and the third team getting Gay.
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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2013, 02:04:57 PM »

Online Moranis

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Quote
Last Years draft based on production thus far
1. Irving
2. Faried
3. Vucevic
4. T. Thompson

Off the top of my head Kawhi Leonard and Klay Thompson are pretty big omissions on that list. From a prospect standpoint Valancunias seems to be a much better option.

Add Iman Shumpert to the list for sure too.

To me, Thompson has Hakim Warrick written all over him. A guy that can put up numbers without making any kind of real impact on the game.
Based on production thus far Shumpert and Leonard belong no where near that list.  Klay certainly could be there and he is a pretty nice scorer/shooter thus far.  He doesn't do much else aside from shoot though.
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Re: Memphis makes trade to get under the tax.....
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2013, 02:07:14 PM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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Quote
Last Years draft based on production thus far
1. Irving
2. Faried
3. Vucevic
4. T. Thompson

Off the top of my head Kawhi Leonard and Klay Thompson are pretty big omissions on that list. From a prospect standpoint Valancunias seems to be a much better option.

Add Iman Shumpert to the list for sure too.

To me, Thompson has Hakim Warrick written all over him. A guy that can put up numbers without making any kind of real impact on the game.
Based on production thus far Shumpert and Leonard belong no where near that list.  Klay certainly could be there and he is a pretty nice scorer/shooter thus far.  He doesn't do much else aside from shoot though.

Leonard's stats aren't flashy, but he looks like a great piece down the road for SA.

 

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