Author Topic: Start Green, Pierce sixth man  (Read 8396 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #120 on: January 22, 2013, 08:17:09 PM »

Offline albas89

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 873
  • Tommy Points: 73
At least Green is tearing it up tonight.  Zero shots and two points in 11 minutes so far.
To be fair, I don't think they set anything for him... actually I think I didn't see any sets at all this whole half, just pick&pop play after pick&pop play after pick&pop play...
"Life has so many hurdles. Some of them I've hopped over, some of them I've tripped over. The key is to get back up and finish the race."- Paul Pierce

And he did finish...

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #121 on: January 22, 2013, 08:21:03 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23785
  • Tommy Points: -29121
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
At least Green is tearing it up tonight.  Zero shots and two points in 11 minutes so far.
To be fair, I don't think they set anything for him... actually I think I didn't see any sets at all this whole half, just pick&pop play after pick&pop play after pick&pop play...

Good players don't need plays run for them to have an offensive impact.  The vast majority of the time, our offense isn't going to be running set plays with one specific player.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #122 on: January 22, 2013, 09:24:14 PM »

Online mr. dee

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 608
  • Tommy Points: 38
Seriously, Pierce is killing the team right now. It's either reduce his minutes or he should come from the bench. Forcing ill-advised jumpers, sloppy turnover, can't even buy a bucket at the line.

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #123 on: January 22, 2013, 09:35:13 PM »

Offline Mazingerz

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1190
  • Tommy Points: 93
^ I seriously also think that PP is cooked.
Peavey Bass Player - relearning to play after 10 years sucks;

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #124 on: January 22, 2013, 09:37:12 PM »

Offline Interceptor

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1969
  • Tommy Points: 224
I don't think we can take many more of those All-Star performances by Pierce. 3 for 15. At least he got rebounds and assists.

Please can we start Green?

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #125 on: January 22, 2013, 09:42:09 PM »

Offline blink

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2020
  • Tommy Points: 130
At least Green is tearing it up tonight.  Zero shots and two points in 11 minutes so far.

I don't see PP as having a much better game than JG.  He played a lot more minutes, was 3-15 for 12 points and shot really poorly down the stretch. 

Clear to me PP needs a few days off.  He is gassed, legs are shot, something.  Just is moving really poorly in general.  He needs a few DNP - Old.  Start JG while PP gets a break, figures out if he is injured or what the heck is going on with him.


Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #126 on: January 22, 2013, 09:44:43 PM »

Offline pp34isthe1

  • Jared Sullinger
  • Posts: 346
  • Tommy Points: 38
Pierce will work through this slump, everyone is over-reacting. hes probably tired of losing and playing so many minutes because of Jeffs inconsistentcy. No one anticipated the C's to be this bad and honestly I think DA and Docs plan was to let JG play more than Pierce some games or start and rest Pierce.

Things didnt work out that way as we all know
Ray Allen 2004 on Kobe Bryant: "in about a year or two he will be calling out to Jerry Buss that we need some help in here, or trade me."

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #127 on: January 22, 2013, 09:51:06 PM »

Offline blink

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2020
  • Tommy Points: 130
Pierce will work through this slump, everyone is over-reacting. hes probably tired of losing and playing so many minutes because of Jeffs inconsistentcy. No one anticipated the C's to be this bad and honestly I think DA and Docs plan was to let JG play more than Pierce some games or start and rest Pierce.

Things didnt work out that way as we all know

So PP's poor play is coming from being emotionally down over losing and having to play more minutes because of JG's bad play??  what???  That makes no sense to me.

Cmon, PP is mentally tougher than that.  I agree he will probably pop back out of his slump.  It is just that these slump(s) are happening a lot more often this year and it is really impacting the team.

The problem is I can't remember PP having such a long string of poor performances on offense.  His own inconsistency is just as big (or more) of a problem for the team than JG's.

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #128 on: January 22, 2013, 09:55:28 PM »

Offline jbaerg

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 209
  • Tommy Points: 16
I think it's just a matter of Paul playing too many minutes in too many games. Gotta cut one of the two out. The guy needs a break. Remember how hot he was coming into the season?

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #129 on: January 22, 2013, 09:56:28 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27186
  • Tommy Points: 2043
Last year, when Ray Allen got hurt and Bradley took his starting position, a definite change could be seen in the play of this team. Bradley relieved Rondo of having to guard the best offensive player in the opponent's back court. His off the ball cuts and ability to run the floor and create turnovers with Rondo, helped make the offense less stagnant. His effect with the starters on the defensive end was staggering. They became one of the best defensive fives for the C's since 2008.

So when Doc sent Ray to the bench and started Bradley for good there was good reason for it. Ray was hurt and struggling, simultaneously. Bradley was playing well and he had obvious defensive advantages over Ray Allen and provided something different for the starting five. Namely, quickness, defense and a running game.

Thing is, as frustrated as some are with the play of this team, the removal of Pierce and inclusion of Green in the starting five isn't going to make this team better. Unlike the Allen-Bradley differences and dynamic that changed the team, the Green-Pierce difference isn't a positive one for the starters. Green brings nothing that Pierce doesn't already supply on a quantitative and qualitative basis. Simply put, you are taking out a great player to put in a mediocre role player.

Pierce is not having a Pierce at his best type of year. But he is still having an All-Star caliber year and benching him gains you nothing for a quality of basketball standpoint. And, it could lose Doc the locker room. Everyone in that locker room knows Pierce is not the problem with this team. Benching him, a stalwart of this era and the captain and locker room leader, for a guy who has a history of passivity and half heartedly giving an effort on many occasions, will not go over well with almost half the team, I am sure.

There is just nothing that shows that adding Green to the starting five will make him play better or the starting five play better. Pierce often plays with 3 or 4 bench players and none of those lineups show stats that make one believes Pierce or the bench will play better with Pierce coming off the bench.

So why risk it?

If you want to shake up a team, you don't bench its captain and one of the players giving a top effort for an overpaid mediocre role player that has a history of not showing up half the time. What you do is play guys giving you great effort the most minutes and have the GM trade one or two of the worst "effort" guys the heck out of town.

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #130 on: January 22, 2013, 09:57:22 PM »

Offline blink

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2020
  • Tommy Points: 130
I think it's just a matter of Paul playing too many minutes in too many games. Gotta cut one of the two out. The guy needs a break. Remember how hot he was coming into the season?

I agree with this as well.  Gotta get PP some rest or something to help him get out of this slump.

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #131 on: January 22, 2013, 10:04:08 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23785
  • Tommy Points: -29121
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Last year, when Ray Allen got hurt and Bradley took his starting position, a definite change could be seen in the play of this team. Bradley relieved Rondo of having to guard the best offensive player in the opponent's back court. His off the ball cuts and ability to run the floor and create turnovers with Rondo, helped make the offense less stagnant. His effect with the starters on the defensive end was staggering. They became one of the best defensive fives for the C's since 2008.

So when Doc sent Ray to the bench and started Bradley for good there was good reason for it. Ray was hurt and struggling, simultaneously. Bradley was playing well and he had obvious defensive advantages over Ray Allen and provided something different for the starting five. Namely, quickness, defense and a running game.

Thing is, as frustrated as some are with the play of this team, the removal of Pierce and inclusion of Green in the starting five isn't going to make this team better. Unlike the Allen-Bradley differences and dynamic that changed the team, the Green-Pierce difference isn't a positive one for the starters. Green brings nothing that Pierce doesn't already supply on a quantitative and qualitative basis. Simply put, you are taking out a great player to put in a mediocre role player.

Pierce is not having a Pierce at his best type of year. But he is still having an All-Star caliber year and benching him gains you nothing for a quality of basketball standpoint. And, it could lose Doc the locker room. Everyone in that locker room knows Pierce is not the problem with this team. Benching him, a stalwart of this era and the captain and locker room leader, for a guy who has a history of passivity and half heartedly giving an effort on many occasions, will not go over well with almost half the team, I am sure.

There is just nothing that shows that adding Green to the starting five will make him play better or the starting five play better. Pierce often plays with 3 or 4 bench players and none of those lineups show stats that make one believes Pierce or the bench will play better with Pierce coming off the bench.

So why risk it?

If you want to shake up a team, you don't bench its captain and one of the players giving a top effort for an overpaid mediocre role player that has a history of not showing up half the time. What you do is play guys giving you great effort the most minutes and have the GM trade one or two of the worst "effort" guys the heck out of town.

This guy gets it. Perfectly stated and reasoned.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #132 on: January 22, 2013, 10:29:13 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3622
  • Tommy Points: 105
I think the thing that frustrates me the most is that he continues to shoot us out of games when he plays like this. You can't take 15 shots when you are that off. It's selfish. Especially when you know you have dead legs. If he isn't willing to realize that he is on the decline and can't do what he could 4-5 years ago then a change needs to be made. When you're off, pass the dang ball. When you are on, then fill it up. Otherwise we will continue to lose like this.

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #133 on: January 22, 2013, 10:41:33 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23785
  • Tommy Points: -29121
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
I think the thing that frustrates me the most is that he continues to shoot us out of games when he plays like this. You can't take 15 shots when you are that off. It's selfish. Especially when you know you have dead legs. If he isn't willing to realize that he is on the decline and can't do what he could 4-5 years ago then a change needs to be made. When you're off, pass the dang ball. When you are on, then fill it up. Otherwise we will continue to lose like this.

Pierce made mostly good decisions tonight.  He was smart in moving the ball, and most of his shots were open.  He just didn't hit them.

Should Pierce pass up open jumpers?  I don't think that would be helpful, even if he is in a bad slump.

I do think it's time to give him a game or two off, though.


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Start Green, Pierce sixth man
« Reply #134 on: January 22, 2013, 10:43:02 PM »

Offline jbaerg

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 209
  • Tommy Points: 16
I'm not saying bench PP by any means. Just give him meaningful rest. It's clearly worked for Duncan/Manu.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog