Author Topic: the thing about rondo  (Read 4302 times)

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Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2013, 01:57:32 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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The "lack of effort" tag that Rondo has been given boggles my mind.  He's not perfect, but, man, does that little dude play hard. 

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 02:01:35 PM »

Online LarBrd33

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From what I understand, Rondo doesn't have the kind of value around this league as we hope.  There must be a perception of him as an inconsistent, poor shooting player who simply gets a lot of assists due to the system.

Rumors are rumors, but there's been a lot of smoke to suggest this.

We tried hard to move him in a Chris Paul trade, but we couldn't make it work.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Pau Gasol and got turned down.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Westbrook and got turned down.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Steph Curry last year and got turned down by Golden State.

Not to mention a perception of him as a bit of a hot head...  I just have a hard time believing a team like the Sonics would decide to build around him.

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 02:12:20 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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From what I understand, Rondo doesn't have the kind of value around this league as we hope.  There must be a perception of him as an inconsistent, poor shooting player who simply gets a lot of assists due to the system.

Rumors are rumors, but there's been a lot of smoke to suggest this.

We tried hard to move him in a Chris Paul trade, but we couldn't make it work.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Pau Gasol and got turned down.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Westbrook and got turned down.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Steph Curry last year and got turned down by Golden State.

Not to mention a perception of him as a bit of a hot head...  I just have a hard time believing a team like the Sonics would decide to build around him.

Each one of the rumors that you reference has nothing but very flimsy evidence and reporting behind it. 

Anyone can start a rumor, and people love to start them about Rondo, but that doesn't mean that there's one shred of truth to any of them.

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 02:13:48 PM »

Offline Galeto

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I don't know about trading Rondo even though I'm not one of his biggest fans.  I just wished the guy would adjust his play a bit, that's all.  While Rondo's been a Celtics, they've been their most efficiently offensively in the the two years Rondo Ball wasn't as prevalent.  In 2008, he only averaged 30 minutes a game and he [dang] didn't spend that time pounding the ball like he does now.  The following year his minutes increased to 33 and Rondo Ball still hadn't fully developed.  More than that, having ball movement, passing the ball up the court, creating with multiple ball handlers and playmakers is just more fun to watch for me. 

Even though Rondo's shooting has improved dramatically, teams still don't respect it.  As such, his defender closes down driving lanes repeatedly.  There's no room in the middle of the court because Rondo's man doesn't respect his jumpshot.  That can really hamper an offense.

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2013, 02:21:00 PM »

Online LarBrd33

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From what I understand, Rondo doesn't have the kind of value around this league as we hope.  There must be a perception of him as an inconsistent, poor shooting player who simply gets a lot of assists due to the system.

Rumors are rumors, but there's been a lot of smoke to suggest this.

We tried hard to move him in a Chris Paul trade, but we couldn't make it work.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Pau Gasol and got turned down.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Westbrook and got turned down.

Rumors suggest we tried trading him for Steph Curry last year and got turned down by Golden State.

Not to mention a perception of him as a bit of a hot head...  I just have a hard time believing a team like the Sonics would decide to build around him.

Each one of the rumors that you reference has nothing but very flimsy evidence and reporting behind it. 

Anyone can start a rumor, and people love to start them about Rondo, but that doesn't mean that there's one shred of truth to any of them.
True.  They were all rumors.  Going back further there were rumors that Sacramento turned down trading Tyreke Evans for Rondo.  And Rondo's star is glowing brighter now thanks to a sensational playoff performance and making the all star team multiple times.

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2013, 03:16:45 PM »

Offline RJ87

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If we are going to keep Rondo, which I certainly don't think is a bad move.  His jump shot has improved drastically this season and if that keeps up he could be unstoppable.

We have to get finishers around the basket.  When KG got here he would finish those inside passes, now he turns them into fade away jumpers.  And we have to get at least two players on the floor with Rondo who can stretch the D.  The team we have now doesn't really fit with what Rondo does best.

What team would fit him better? It felt like some of the off season moves we made.this past year had a lot to do with fitting to Rondos strength and it hasn't really done much

Off the top of my head: Indiana, LAC, Houston, Philly. Each of those teams has a mix of guys who can post up, finish at the rim, and hit jumpers. 

The pieces that we added this offseason were a step towards a more a Rondo centric offense, but we still rely way too heavily on jumpshots.
Quote
Ainge had mentioned he expects Rondo to get paid 'star money.' On that subject, Rondo said, 'I'm making star money now, really. Its a pretty good living. I'll let my agent handle those terms.'

You have to be good before you can be great. Build a team instead of tearing it down.

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2013, 03:21:11 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I think it's a simple formula on hwo to make it work with Rondo if we want to move forward with him after KG and Pierce.

1. We need to muscle in the paint to clear the boards and start the break. Sully is a good start at PF. If Melo pans out his lateral speed and shot blocking could be a very good compliment to Sully's muscle and hopefully one of them can be an 18-20 point scorer > Sully?

2. Get a middle of the road back up point guard who is a "decent" play maker and defender but whose strongest skill is being an at least "solid" jump shooter from the top of the key area and three land.
 
3. Put speed, athleticism and scoring at the 2/3 spots, with hopefully one of those guys being a true stud scorer, like a young Pierce.

Basically, you build a younger version of what we were the first 1-2 years KG arrived.

That team dominated and Rondo picked teams apart and was not relied on to be a 20 point + a night scorer - that is not who he is - it's a nice benny when he goes off bit he shouldn't be counted on for it.

   

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2013, 03:36:48 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Another, alternate, swing for the fences move would be to put yourself in the Dwight Howard Sweepstakes this summer if at all possible.

Put yourself in the position to get him, by doing the following. Blow it up and trade for Josh Smith and Rudy Gay.

Pierce to the grizzlies for Rudy Gay Rondo wants him here. A front line of Gasol, Zach Randolph and Pierce would be an absolute load in the playoffs. Grizz want a salary dump. Trading for Pierce would increase their chances of a ring this year and get them the salary dump at the same time.

Trade Bradley, Courtney Lee and two first round picks to Atlanta for Josh Smith.

KG / Collins / melo
Josh Smith / Sully / Wilcox
Rudy Gay / Jeff Green
Bass - lateral trade for half decent off guard
Rondo / Barbosa

Hope that Rondo, Rudy Gay and Josh Smith interest Howard. Go over the cap to sign Howard if you have to           

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2013, 03:38:35 PM »

Offline nostar

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I think it's a simple formula on hwo to make it work with Rondo if we want to move forward with him after KG and Pierce.

1. We need to muscle in the paint to clear the boards and start the break. Sully is a good start at PF. If Melo pans out his lateral speed and shot blocking could be a very good compliment to Sully's muscle and hopefully one of them can be an 18-20 point scorer > Sully?

2. Get a middle of the road back up point guard who is a "decent" play maker and defender but whose strongest skill is being an at least "solid" jump shooter from the top of the key area and three land.
 
3. Put speed, athleticism and scoring at the 2/3 spots, with hopefully one of those guys being a true stud scorer, like a young Pierce.

Basically, you build a younger version of what we were the first 1-2 years KG arrived.

That team dominated and Rondo picked teams apart and was not relied on to be a 20 point + a night scorer - that is not who he is - it's a nice benny when he goes off bit he shouldn't be counted on for it.

Step 1: We got Sully, we got Melo, we tried to get Darko and we'll probably take a swing at a big at the deadline. I'd check this one off.

Step 2: That almost perfectly describes the Jet. He's a decent backup PG who has limited play making ability with a very good shot. I know the shot has been off but it's probably not going to stay off forever. The defense could use some work but Jet has never been famous for that and we have 2 other 2-guards that excel there.

Step 3: Bradley, Lee and Green...check!

I think Danny did exactly what you said he should do except he did it 5-7 months ago. I'm not sure this team gets much better than it is right now from a talent perspective. I think we should take a swing at landing Gortat or Varejao (for playoffs I would hope). There aren't many players I blow up for.

The thing about Rondo is that he's a competitor who can't carry a team every night by scoring. That is probably the most frustrating thing to him. Carmello and Lebron and Chris Paul and Kobe can all just drag their teams to victory on any given night by draining baskets. Rondo's skill set isn't scoring and while there are nights he can put up 20+ it's not really his game. He has to play in the system and when his team isn't making shots it's frustrating. He can't just be the franchise band-aid like a lot of scoring guards can but he can be the franchise keystone. Put Rondo on a team with a top 10 post presence and 4-5 shooting threats and he's a happy guy. I'm of the opinion we have the shooting threats. Need a post master general!


Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2013, 03:50:22 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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The real question going forward is Rondo the type of player that will attract that top line scorer. 



Rondo will need that guy who can score. 



If the Celtics can not add that in the future, then it would probably make sense to move Rondo in the future. 





Right now, unless there are some socks being blown off Ainge's feet, Rondo should not be traded.


Running the Clippers with Redz.

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2013, 04:03:12 PM »

Offline eugen

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I saw last games. I see Rondo keeping ball too much, and the offensive plays are always slow. There is no dynamism. I thing that Cs play better offensivly without Rondo.

Second thing: We need better players to score and a big guy under the rim

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2013, 04:24:44 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Nostar - good reply.

1. True, but Melo isn't given the chance "yet". Sully's coming along well but is maybe 1-2 years away, hopefully.
* I think these two kids have a shot at being our 4-5 spots long term but 1-2 years away.

2. Agreed terry is serviceable at the back up point. But isn't Doc playing him mostly at the two with Lee at the point? I'd like to see Terry at the point and in a lot more pick and roll situations.

3. Agree that Bradley, Lee and Green have speed and athleticism at the wings but while I see Bradley as an elite defender I do not see Green or Lee as elite scorers.

I see Lee as an ideal back up two guard and at $4-5 million  he's a good deal to me.

I don't know if Green will ever be an elite scorer.

My point on item #3 was to try and find young Ray Allen / Paul Pierce level scoring talents at the 2/3 spots.

I don't know who those two guys are...but maybe a Rudy Gay / OJ Mayo type combo is somewhat close as far as more legit offensive weapons at the 2-3 spots than Green and Lee.

I think Green was signed and projected to be that guy at the 3 but Lee was signed and projected as a long term back up two.     

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2013, 04:27:34 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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wdleehi, exactly the point.

We need at least one legit stud scorer and another good one at the 2/3 spots and we'll see music again.

Rondo can never be counted on as that 20 point+ scorer every night. And that is OK - as long as we find that guy(s) for him.

Also agreed if we can't you can also build with a front court dominant team and a "decent" point guard. 

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2013, 04:30:26 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Trading Rondo would be pretty moronic unless we are bringing back a top level player - ie: Cousins. If he is undervalued around the league, but [deservingly] starting the all-star game, you adjust your team to what Rondo can do, not trade him for decent players.

On the other hand, if we are looking at the future, a trade of Pierce for Gay is probably the smartest thing we could do. I can't imagine Memphis wouldn't be all over this given Pierce's [kind-of] expiring contract and it gives them the ability to compete for a championship this year. Obviously it stinks to trade the captain, but you either trade him for our next go-to guy or you let him retire and get absolutely nothing.

Re: the thing about rondo
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2013, 04:40:05 PM »

Online ScottHow

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I've slowly come around to this thinking. I use to think Rondo could handle years Pierce went through, but I'm not sure anymore. If Ainge decided to blow it up, I would be okay trading Rondo for future pieces.

 

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