Author Topic: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?  (Read 3737 times)

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Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2013, 09:42:12 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I have absolutely no idea whether Josh Smith is a SF or PF.

I always thought more of a PF, but then saw he's listed as SF on trade machine.  And I thought: "Well, yeah that makes sense, because he's a bit small to match up against the bigger PFs of the league"  Then I thought:  "Well, but he can't really shoot that well for a SF and I think a SF needs to be able to shoot"

So what is he?  The idea of "bigger PFs" is kind of disappearing around the league.  Former all-star PFs with height like Bosh, KG, Duncan, Brand, and Jermaine Oneal have all become centers over the past couple years.  Pau, Dirk, Aldridge, and Randolph are the only 4 PFs left in the league who use their height/size to trouble smaller defenders.  Amare could but I'm not sure if he's really a PF and he doesn't really trouble anyone anymore anyways.

I'm gonna say Smith is a PF in today's NBA.  Thoughts?

He's a PF without question.  He can play SF in bigger lineups a la Millsap or Odom, but his skillset makes him much more valuable at PF.
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Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2013, 10:03:39 AM »

Offline ssspence

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agree Houston makes some sense. They can send back young players without matching Smith's salary, which presumably Ferry would want. And Morey is open to gambling on a guy in the final year of his deal.

Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 10:12:59 AM »

Online Who

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I'm gonna say Smith is a PF in today's NBA.  Thoughts?
Josh Smith is a combo forward who is generally at his best as a power forward when used as an undersized quick four but can also play small forward as a power based three.

Quite similar to Andrei Kirilenko or to a lesser degree Shawn Marion. 

Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 10:19:03 AM »

Offline jbaerg

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I hope houston finds a way to get him. I really want Houston to be good again.

Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 11:15:26 AM »

Online pearljammer10

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The Jeremy Lin + Omer Asik contracts aren't backloaded.

They would have been if New York and Chicago matched their offer sheet but neither did.

Both contracts are proportional over three year duration. A little under $8.5 million each.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or at least further explain. I am under the impression based on articles and conversations I have had with others that they are indeed backloaded...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

http://basketball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=basketball&cdn=sports&tm=51&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/bulls-free-agent-center-omer-asik-accepts-rockets-three-year-offer/

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Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 11:32:47 AM »

Online slamtheking

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Houston, on the other hand could be a very interesting fit.

The spacing with Asik and Smith is somewhat concerning - particularly with two guards who prefer to drive - but I like the idea of Smith being added to a team who likes to run, and he'd be a great defensive front court partner with Asik.

I think Houston's primary target is, and should be, Paul Milisap. But Josh Smith wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
I agree -- Houston would seem to be a better trading partner.  plenty of young players to ship to Atlanta that could help them build for the future.  Houston with Harden, Asik, Lin and Smith as the core would make some noise in the west.  if they could hold on to Parsons too, that's a dangerous team for anyone out there to face.

I don't think they would have to give up that much -

They know Josh Smith is going to free agency this summer and they know Atlanta won't resign him. If this goes to the summer they're probably in a two man race for him with Dallas.

And I don't see that many great fits for Smith right now. So I think Houston has leverage. I say Patterson and a first is plenty to get it done if Houston wants to.
I think they'll have to cough up much more than Patterson and a 1st.  At least 3 prospects and a pick.  Jones, White (if ATL thinks they can get him on the court), Patterson and a pick would probably be the minimum.

Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 11:39:43 AM »

Online Who

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The Jeremy Lin + Omer Asik contracts aren't backloaded.

They would have been if New York and Chicago matched their offer sheet but neither did.

Both contracts are proportional (edit: average salary) over three year duration. A little under $8.5 million each.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or at least further explain. I am under the impression based on articles and conversations I have had with others that they are indeed backloaded...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

http://basketball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=basketball&cdn=sports&tm=51&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/bulls-free-agent-center-omer-asik-accepts-rockets-three-year-offer/

Shamsports and Storytellers both have Lin and Asik at $8.375 million per season for each of the three years.

Here is a link to Larry Coon's summary of the Gilbert Arenas provision.

Here as an example from that website:

Quote
Season    Salary    Notes
1    $5,000,000    Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level amount for 2011-12
2    $5,225,000    4.5% raise over season 1
3    $12,628,613    This is the amount that yields $25.775 million over the final two seasons with a 4.1% raise3
4    $13,146,387    Raise is 4.1% of season 3 salary
Total    $36,000,000    Average is $9 million, which equals the team's cap room

For the team making this offer, this contract would count for $9.0 million (i.e., the average salary in the contract) of team salary in each of the four seasons if they sign the player. If the player's prior team matches the offer and keeps the player, then the actual salary in each season counts as team salary.

So they would've been backloaded for Chicago or New York if either team matched. But since neither did, Houston is charged with the average figure of contract (the quoted part in brown font). That is my understanding.

Note: It's the average. Not proportional as I said earlier. I was wrong. No increases. Same figure each year. The average of the contract.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 11:45:27 AM by Who »

Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 12:06:35 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Houston, on the other hand could be a very interesting fit.

The spacing with Asik and Smith is somewhat concerning - particularly with two guards who prefer to drive - but I like the idea of Smith being added to a team who likes to run, and he'd be a great defensive front court partner with Asik.

I think Houston's primary target is, and should be, Paul Milisap. But Josh Smith wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
I agree -- Houston would seem to be a better trading partner.  plenty of young players to ship to Atlanta that could help them build for the future.  Houston with Harden, Asik, Lin and Smith as the core would make some noise in the west.  if they could hold on to Parsons too, that's a dangerous team for anyone out there to face.

I don't think they would have to give up that much -

They know Josh Smith is going to free agency this summer and they know Atlanta won't resign him. If this goes to the summer they're probably in a two man race for him with Dallas.

And I don't see that many great fits for Smith right now. So I think Houston has leverage. I say Patterson and a first is plenty to get it done if Houston wants to.
I think they'll have to cough up much more than Patterson and a 1st.  At least 3 prospects and a pick.  Jones, White (if ATL thinks they can get him on the court), Patterson and a pick would probably be the minimum.

Why? Who are they bidding against? Dallas can't give Atlanta squat. Same with Memphis. What other team out there both wants to acquire Josh Smith and can do better?

All signs are that Atlanta doesn't want anything to do with him past this year. They're going to want some return, but they've got no leverage. He's not that in demand anymore.

Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 12:46:09 PM »

Online pearljammer10

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The Jeremy Lin + Omer Asik contracts aren't backloaded.

They would have been if New York and Chicago matched their offer sheet but neither did.

Both contracts are proportional (edit: average salary) over three year duration. A little under $8.5 million each.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or at least further explain. I am under the impression based on articles and conversations I have had with others that they are indeed backloaded...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

http://basketball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=basketball&cdn=sports&tm=51&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/bulls-free-agent-center-omer-asik-accepts-rockets-three-year-offer/

Shamsports and Storytellers both have Lin and Asik at $8.375 million per season for each of the three years.

Here is a link to Larry Coon's summary of the Gilbert Arenas provision.

Here as an example from that website:

Quote
Season    Salary    Notes
1    $5,000,000    Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level amount for 2011-12
2    $5,225,000    4.5% raise over season 1
3    $12,628,613    This is the amount that yields $25.775 million over the final two seasons with a 4.1% raise3
4    $13,146,387    Raise is 4.1% of season 3 salary
Total    $36,000,000    Average is $9 million, which equals the team's cap room

For the team making this offer, this contract would count for $9.0 million (i.e., the average salary in the contract) of team salary in each of the four seasons if they sign the player. If the player's prior team matches the offer and keeps the player, then the actual salary in each season counts as team salary.

So they would've been backloaded for Chicago or New York if either team matched. But since neither did, Houston is charged with the average figure of contract (the quoted part in brown font). That is my understanding.

Note: It's the average. Not proportional as I said earlier. I was wrong. No increases. Same figure each year. The average of the contract.

Interesting. I had no idea. Thanks. TP for the explanation.
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Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 01:18:26 PM »

Online Moranis

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The Jeremy Lin + Omer Asik contracts aren't backloaded.

They would have been if New York and Chicago matched their offer sheet but neither did.

Both contracts are proportional (edit: average salary) over three year duration. A little under $8.5 million each.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or at least further explain. I am under the impression based on articles and conversations I have had with others that they are indeed backloaded...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

http://basketball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=basketball&cdn=sports&tm=51&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/bulls-free-agent-center-omer-asik-accepts-rockets-three-year-offer/

Shamsports and Storytellers both have Lin and Asik at $8.375 million per season for each of the three years.

Here is a link to Larry Coon's summary of the Gilbert Arenas provision.

Here as an example from that website:

Quote
Season    Salary    Notes
1    $5,000,000    Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level amount for 2011-12
2    $5,225,000    4.5% raise over season 1
3    $12,628,613    This is the amount that yields $25.775 million over the final two seasons with a 4.1% raise3
4    $13,146,387    Raise is 4.1% of season 3 salary
Total    $36,000,000    Average is $9 million, which equals the team's cap room

For the team making this offer, this contract would count for $9.0 million (i.e., the average salary in the contract) of team salary in each of the four seasons if they sign the player. If the player's prior team matches the offer and keeps the player, then the actual salary in each season counts as team salary.

So they would've been backloaded for Chicago or New York if either team matched. But since neither did, Houston is charged with the average figure of contract (the quoted part in brown font). That is my understanding.

Note: It's the average. Not proportional as I said earlier. I was wrong. No increases. Same figure each year. The average of the contract.
not that it really matters, but I think Houston actually pays Lin and Asik as was presented in the contract, it just counts against the cap evenly.  It is essentially the reverse of the NFL with those signing bonuses, pay now, but evenly distribute throughout life of contract.
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Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 01:50:38 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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My hope is that Smith wants to play here enough to demand a trade.  Also, he should put the word out he will not re-sign with Atlanta or any team other than Boston that trades for him.
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Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 07:59:55 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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My hope is that Smith wants to play here enough to demand a trade.  Also, he should put the word out he will not re-sign with Atlanta or any team other than Boston that trades for him.

 :)

Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 08:43:19 AM »

Online slamtheking

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Houston, on the other hand could be a very interesting fit.

The spacing with Asik and Smith is somewhat concerning - particularly with two guards who prefer to drive - but I like the idea of Smith being added to a team who likes to run, and he'd be a great defensive front court partner with Asik.

I think Houston's primary target is, and should be, Paul Milisap. But Josh Smith wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
I agree -- Houston would seem to be a better trading partner.  plenty of young players to ship to Atlanta that could help them build for the future.  Houston with Harden, Asik, Lin and Smith as the core would make some noise in the west.  if they could hold on to Parsons too, that's a dangerous team for anyone out there to face.

I don't think they would have to give up that much -

They know Josh Smith is going to free agency this summer and they know Atlanta won't resign him. If this goes to the summer they're probably in a two man race for him with Dallas.

And I don't see that many great fits for Smith right now. So I think Houston has leverage. I say Patterson and a first is plenty to get it done if Houston wants to.
I think they'll have to cough up much more than Patterson and a 1st.  At least 3 prospects and a pick.  Jones, White (if ATL thinks they can get him on the court), Patterson and a pick would probably be the minimum.

Why? Who are they bidding against? Dallas can't give Atlanta squat. Same with Memphis. What other team out there both wants to acquire Josh Smith and can do better?

All signs are that Atlanta doesn't want anything to do with him past this year. They're going to want some return, but they've got no leverage. He's not that in demand anymore.
I can't see Houston as the only suitor for Smith.  Boston can do better than that by offering Bass, Lee, Melo and a pick which would be worth a lot more than Patterson and a pick.  Other teams would want Smith so 1 unproven prospect and a middle-of-the-round pick in a crappy draft won't net them an all-star like Smith

Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 08:55:30 AM »

Online Evantime34

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My hope is that Smith wants to play here enough to demand a trade.  Also, he should put the word out he will not re-sign with Atlanta or any team other than Boston that trades for him.

 :)
I think teams would call his bluff, since we can only offer the MLE and he will want significantly more than that.
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Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2013, 09:06:35 AM »

Online pearljammer10

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Houston, on the other hand could be a very interesting fit.

The spacing with Asik and Smith is somewhat concerning - particularly with two guards who prefer to drive - but I like the idea of Smith being added to a team who likes to run, and he'd be a great defensive front court partner with Asik.

I think Houston's primary target is, and should be, Paul Milisap. But Josh Smith wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
I agree -- Houston would seem to be a better trading partner.  plenty of young players to ship to Atlanta that could help them build for the future.  Houston with Harden, Asik, Lin and Smith as the core would make some noise in the west.  if they could hold on to Parsons too, that's a dangerous team for anyone out there to face.

I don't think they would have to give up that much -

They know Josh Smith is going to free agency this summer and they know Atlanta won't resign him. If this goes to the summer they're probably in a two man race for him with Dallas.

And I don't see that many great fits for Smith right now. So I think Houston has leverage. I say Patterson and a first is plenty to get it done if Houston wants to.
I think they'll have to cough up much more than Patterson and a 1st.  At least 3 prospects and a pick.  Jones, White (if ATL thinks they can get him on the court), Patterson and a pick would probably be the minimum.

Why? Who are they bidding against? Dallas can't give Atlanta squat. Same with Memphis. What other team out there both wants to acquire Josh Smith and can do better?

All signs are that Atlanta doesn't want anything to do with him past this year. They're going to want some return, but they've got no leverage. He's not that in demand anymore.
I can't see Houston as the only suitor for Smith.  Boston can do better than that by offering Bass, Lee, Melo and a pick which would be worth a lot more than Patterson and a pick.  Other teams would want Smith so 1 unproven prospect and a middle-of-the-round pick in a crappy draft won't net them an all-star like Smith

Yeah if Houston offer Patterson and a pick then 28 other teams will be calling to Hawks to bid against that proposal.
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