Author Topic: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?  (Read 3626 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online PhoSita

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4637
  • Tommy Points: 295
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2013, 09:42:12 AM »
I have absolutely no idea whether Josh Smith is a SF or PF.

I always thought more of a PF, but then saw he's listed as SF on trade machine.  And I thought: "Well, yeah that makes sense, because he's a bit small to match up against the bigger PFs of the league"  Then I thought:  "Well, but he can't really shoot that well for a SF and I think a SF needs to be able to shoot"

So what is he?  The idea of "bigger PFs" is kind of disappearing around the league.  Former all-star PFs with height like Bosh, KG, Duncan, Brand, and Jermaine Oneal have all become centers over the past couple years.  Pau, Dirk, Aldridge, and Randolph are the only 4 PFs left in the league who use their height/size to trouble smaller defenders.  Amare could but I'm not sure if he's really a PF and he doesn't really trouble anyone anymore anyways.

I'm gonna say Smith is a PF in today's NBA.  Thoughts?

He's a PF without question.  He can play SF in bigger lineups a la Millsap or Odom, but his skillset makes him much more valuable at PF.
"You're never as good as you think you are, you're never as bad as you think you are, and you're never far from either."

- Brad Stevens, the Philosopher Coach.

Offline ssspence

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4533
  • Tommy Points: 261
  • James Naismith to Dickey Betts for the jam.....
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2013, 10:03:39 AM »
agree Houston makes some sense. They can send back young players without matching Smith's salary, which presumably Ferry would want. And Morey is open to gambling on a guy in the final year of his deal.

Offline Who

  • Larry Bird
  • *****************************
  • Posts: 29102
  • Tommy Points: 1210
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 10:12:59 AM »
I'm gonna say Smith is a PF in today's NBA.  Thoughts?
Josh Smith is a combo forward who is generally at his best as a power forward when used as an undersized quick four but can also play small forward as a power based three.

Quite similar to Andrei Kirilenko or to a lesser degree Shawn Marion. 

Offline jbaerg

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 209
  • Tommy Points: 16
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 10:19:03 AM »
I hope houston finds a way to get him. I really want Houston to be good again.

Offline pearljammer10

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9431
  • Tommy Points: 556
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 11:15:26 AM »
The Jeremy Lin + Omer Asik contracts aren't backloaded.

They would have been if New York and Chicago matched their offer sheet but neither did.

Both contracts are proportional over three year duration. A little under $8.5 million each.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or at least further explain. I am under the impression based on articles and conversations I have had with others that they are indeed backloaded...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

http://basketball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=basketball&cdn=sports&tm=51&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/bulls-free-agent-center-omer-asik-accepts-rockets-three-year-offer/

DKC: GM Boston Celtics
PICK 2: Trail Blazers
PG: Lillard/ReggieJackson
SG: D. Green/Miller/Wroten
SF: Leonard/Prince
PF: Aldridge/Diaw
C:  Noah/Birdman/Perkins

Offline slamtheking

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9838
  • Tommy Points: 2176
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 11:32:47 AM »
Houston, on the other hand could be a very interesting fit.

The spacing with Asik and Smith is somewhat concerning - particularly with two guards who prefer to drive - but I like the idea of Smith being added to a team who likes to run, and he'd be a great defensive front court partner with Asik.

I think Houston's primary target is, and should be, Paul Milisap. But Josh Smith wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
I agree -- Houston would seem to be a better trading partner.  plenty of young players to ship to Atlanta that could help them build for the future.  Houston with Harden, Asik, Lin and Smith as the core would make some noise in the west.  if they could hold on to Parsons too, that's a dangerous team for anyone out there to face.

I don't think they would have to give up that much -

They know Josh Smith is going to free agency this summer and they know Atlanta won't resign him. If this goes to the summer they're probably in a two man race for him with Dallas.

And I don't see that many great fits for Smith right now. So I think Houston has leverage. I say Patterson and a first is plenty to get it done if Houston wants to.
I think they'll have to cough up much more than Patterson and a 1st.  At least 3 prospects and a pick.  Jones, White (if ATL thinks they can get him on the court), Patterson and a pick would probably be the minimum.
Pick 2 Draft 2014: Cleveland Cavs:
Starters:
Kyrie Irving, Kevin Martin, Luol Deng, Serge Ibaka, Nikola Vucevic.
Bench: Andray Blatche, Tyreke Evans, Corey Brewer, Kosta Koufos, Rodney Stuckey, Anthony Morrow, Reggie Evans

Offline Who

  • Larry Bird
  • *****************************
  • Posts: 29102
  • Tommy Points: 1210
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2013, 11:39:43 AM »
The Jeremy Lin + Omer Asik contracts aren't backloaded.

They would have been if New York and Chicago matched their offer sheet but neither did.

Both contracts are proportional (edit: average salary) over three year duration. A little under $8.5 million each.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or at least further explain. I am under the impression based on articles and conversations I have had with others that they are indeed backloaded...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

http://basketball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=basketball&cdn=sports&tm=51&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/bulls-free-agent-center-omer-asik-accepts-rockets-three-year-offer/

Shamsports and Storytellers both have Lin and Asik at $8.375 million per season for each of the three years.

Here is a link to Larry Coon's summary of the Gilbert Arenas provision.

Here as an example from that website:

Quote
Season    Salary    Notes
1    $5,000,000    Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level amount for 2011-12
2    $5,225,000    4.5% raise over season 1
3    $12,628,613    This is the amount that yields $25.775 million over the final two seasons with a 4.1% raise3
4    $13,146,387    Raise is 4.1% of season 3 salary
Total    $36,000,000    Average is $9 million, which equals the team's cap room

For the team making this offer, this contract would count for $9.0 million (i.e., the average salary in the contract) of team salary in each of the four seasons if they sign the player. If the player's prior team matches the offer and keeps the player, then the actual salary in each season counts as team salary.

So they would've been backloaded for Chicago or New York if either team matched. But since neither did, Houston is charged with the average figure of contract (the quoted part in brown font). That is my understanding.

Note: It's the average. Not proportional as I said earlier. I was wrong. No increases. Same figure each year. The average of the contract.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 11:45:27 AM by Who »

Offline StartOrien

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12197
  • Tommy Points: 1151
  • DKC Commish / Big Dido Fan
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2013, 12:06:35 PM »
Houston, on the other hand could be a very interesting fit.

The spacing with Asik and Smith is somewhat concerning - particularly with two guards who prefer to drive - but I like the idea of Smith being added to a team who likes to run, and he'd be a great defensive front court partner with Asik.

I think Houston's primary target is, and should be, Paul Milisap. But Josh Smith wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
I agree -- Houston would seem to be a better trading partner.  plenty of young players to ship to Atlanta that could help them build for the future.  Houston with Harden, Asik, Lin and Smith as the core would make some noise in the west.  if they could hold on to Parsons too, that's a dangerous team for anyone out there to face.

I don't think they would have to give up that much -

They know Josh Smith is going to free agency this summer and they know Atlanta won't resign him. If this goes to the summer they're probably in a two man race for him with Dallas.

And I don't see that many great fits for Smith right now. So I think Houston has leverage. I say Patterson and a first is plenty to get it done if Houston wants to.
I think they'll have to cough up much more than Patterson and a 1st.  At least 3 prospects and a pick.  Jones, White (if ATL thinks they can get him on the court), Patterson and a pick would probably be the minimum.

Why? Who are they bidding against? Dallas can't give Atlanta squat. Same with Memphis. What other team out there both wants to acquire Josh Smith and can do better?

All signs are that Atlanta doesn't want anything to do with him past this year. They're going to want some return, but they've got no leverage. He's not that in demand anymore.

Offline pearljammer10

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9431
  • Tommy Points: 556
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 12:46:09 PM »
The Jeremy Lin + Omer Asik contracts aren't backloaded.

They would have been if New York and Chicago matched their offer sheet but neither did.

Both contracts are proportional (edit: average salary) over three year duration. A little under $8.5 million each.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or at least further explain. I am under the impression based on articles and conversations I have had with others that they are indeed backloaded...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

http://basketball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=basketball&cdn=sports&tm=51&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/bulls-free-agent-center-omer-asik-accepts-rockets-three-year-offer/

Shamsports and Storytellers both have Lin and Asik at $8.375 million per season for each of the three years.

Here is a link to Larry Coon's summary of the Gilbert Arenas provision.

Here as an example from that website:

Quote
Season    Salary    Notes
1    $5,000,000    Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level amount for 2011-12
2    $5,225,000    4.5% raise over season 1
3    $12,628,613    This is the amount that yields $25.775 million over the final two seasons with a 4.1% raise3
4    $13,146,387    Raise is 4.1% of season 3 salary
Total    $36,000,000    Average is $9 million, which equals the team's cap room

For the team making this offer, this contract would count for $9.0 million (i.e., the average salary in the contract) of team salary in each of the four seasons if they sign the player. If the player's prior team matches the offer and keeps the player, then the actual salary in each season counts as team salary.

So they would've been backloaded for Chicago or New York if either team matched. But since neither did, Houston is charged with the average figure of contract (the quoted part in brown font). That is my understanding.

Note: It's the average. Not proportional as I said earlier. I was wrong. No increases. Same figure each year. The average of the contract.

Interesting. I had no idea. Thanks. TP for the explanation.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics
PICK 2: Trail Blazers
PG: Lillard/ReggieJackson
SG: D. Green/Miller/Wroten
SF: Leonard/Prince
PF: Aldridge/Diaw
C:  Noah/Birdman/Perkins

Offline Moranis

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8907
  • Tommy Points: 398
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 01:18:26 PM »
The Jeremy Lin + Omer Asik contracts aren't backloaded.

They would have been if New York and Chicago matched their offer sheet but neither did.

Both contracts are proportional (edit: average salary) over three year duration. A little under $8.5 million each.

Can anyone else confirm this? Or at least further explain. I am under the impression based on articles and conversations I have had with others that they are indeed backloaded...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

http://basketball.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=basketball&cdn=sports&tm=51&f=10&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=8&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/bulls-free-agent-center-omer-asik-accepts-rockets-three-year-offer/

Shamsports and Storytellers both have Lin and Asik at $8.375 million per season for each of the three years.

Here is a link to Larry Coon's summary of the Gilbert Arenas provision.

Here as an example from that website:

Quote
Season    Salary    Notes
1    $5,000,000    Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level amount for 2011-12
2    $5,225,000    4.5% raise over season 1
3    $12,628,613    This is the amount that yields $25.775 million over the final two seasons with a 4.1% raise3
4    $13,146,387    Raise is 4.1% of season 3 salary
Total    $36,000,000    Average is $9 million, which equals the team's cap room

For the team making this offer, this contract would count for $9.0 million (i.e., the average salary in the contract) of team salary in each of the four seasons if they sign the player. If the player's prior team matches the offer and keeps the player, then the actual salary in each season counts as team salary.

So they would've been backloaded for Chicago or New York if either team matched. But since neither did, Houston is charged with the average figure of contract (the quoted part in brown font). That is my understanding.

Note: It's the average. Not proportional as I said earlier. I was wrong. No increases. Same figure each year. The average of the contract.
not that it really matters, but I think Houston actually pays Lin and Asik as was presented in the contract, it just counts against the cap evenly.  It is essentially the reverse of the NFL with those signing bonuses, pay now, but evenly distribute throughout life of contract.
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

Offline KGs Knee

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6059
  • Tommy Points: 581
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 01:50:38 AM »
My hope is that Smith wants to play here enough to demand a trade.  Also, he should put the word out he will not re-sign with Atlanta or any team other than Boston that trades for him.
DKC Los Angeles Lakers
GM: Micheal Corleone
Head Coach: Mike Krzyzewski
Roster

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3213
  • Tommy Points: 185
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 07:59:55 AM »
My hope is that Smith wants to play here enough to demand a trade.  Also, he should put the word out he will not re-sign with Atlanta or any team other than Boston that trades for him.

 :)

Offline slamtheking

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9838
  • Tommy Points: 2176
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 08:43:19 AM »
Houston, on the other hand could be a very interesting fit.

The spacing with Asik and Smith is somewhat concerning - particularly with two guards who prefer to drive - but I like the idea of Smith being added to a team who likes to run, and he'd be a great defensive front court partner with Asik.

I think Houston's primary target is, and should be, Paul Milisap. But Josh Smith wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
I agree -- Houston would seem to be a better trading partner.  plenty of young players to ship to Atlanta that could help them build for the future.  Houston with Harden, Asik, Lin and Smith as the core would make some noise in the west.  if they could hold on to Parsons too, that's a dangerous team for anyone out there to face.

I don't think they would have to give up that much -

They know Josh Smith is going to free agency this summer and they know Atlanta won't resign him. If this goes to the summer they're probably in a two man race for him with Dallas.

And I don't see that many great fits for Smith right now. So I think Houston has leverage. I say Patterson and a first is plenty to get it done if Houston wants to.
I think they'll have to cough up much more than Patterson and a 1st.  At least 3 prospects and a pick.  Jones, White (if ATL thinks they can get him on the court), Patterson and a pick would probably be the minimum.

Why? Who are they bidding against? Dallas can't give Atlanta squat. Same with Memphis. What other team out there both wants to acquire Josh Smith and can do better?

All signs are that Atlanta doesn't want anything to do with him past this year. They're going to want some return, but they've got no leverage. He's not that in demand anymore.
I can't see Houston as the only suitor for Smith.  Boston can do better than that by offering Bass, Lee, Melo and a pick which would be worth a lot more than Patterson and a pick.  Other teams would want Smith so 1 unproven prospect and a middle-of-the-round pick in a crappy draft won't net them an all-star like Smith
Pick 2 Draft 2014: Cleveland Cavs:
Starters:
Kyrie Irving, Kevin Martin, Luol Deng, Serge Ibaka, Nikola Vucevic.
Bench: Andray Blatche, Tyreke Evans, Corey Brewer, Kosta Koufos, Rodney Stuckey, Anthony Morrow, Reggie Evans

Offline Evantime34

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6568
  • Tommy Points: 247
  • Eagerly Awaiting the Next Fantasy Draft
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2013, 08:55:30 AM »
My hope is that Smith wants to play here enough to demand a trade.  Also, he should put the word out he will not re-sign with Atlanta or any team other than Boston that trades for him.

 :)
I think teams would call his bluff, since we can only offer the MLE and he will want significantly more than that.
Visit our NBA blog at www.thepickandpop.com and follow us on twitter at @picknpopdiaries or follow my personal account @Evantime
Pick II Detroit Pistons
DKC Houston Rockets

Offline pearljammer10

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9431
  • Tommy Points: 556
Re: Smith in trade conversations; Dallas, Memphis, and Houston on list?
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2013, 09:06:35 AM »
Houston, on the other hand could be a very interesting fit.

The spacing with Asik and Smith is somewhat concerning - particularly with two guards who prefer to drive - but I like the idea of Smith being added to a team who likes to run, and he'd be a great defensive front court partner with Asik.

I think Houston's primary target is, and should be, Paul Milisap. But Josh Smith wouldn't be a terrible consolation prize.
I agree -- Houston would seem to be a better trading partner.  plenty of young players to ship to Atlanta that could help them build for the future.  Houston with Harden, Asik, Lin and Smith as the core would make some noise in the west.  if they could hold on to Parsons too, that's a dangerous team for anyone out there to face.

I don't think they would have to give up that much -

They know Josh Smith is going to free agency this summer and they know Atlanta won't resign him. If this goes to the summer they're probably in a two man race for him with Dallas.

And I don't see that many great fits for Smith right now. So I think Houston has leverage. I say Patterson and a first is plenty to get it done if Houston wants to.
I think they'll have to cough up much more than Patterson and a 1st.  At least 3 prospects and a pick.  Jones, White (if ATL thinks they can get him on the court), Patterson and a pick would probably be the minimum.

Why? Who are they bidding against? Dallas can't give Atlanta squat. Same with Memphis. What other team out there both wants to acquire Josh Smith and can do better?

All signs are that Atlanta doesn't want anything to do with him past this year. They're going to want some return, but they've got no leverage. He's not that in demand anymore.
I can't see Houston as the only suitor for Smith.  Boston can do better than that by offering Bass, Lee, Melo and a pick which would be worth a lot more than Patterson and a pick.  Other teams would want Smith so 1 unproven prospect and a middle-of-the-round pick in a crappy draft won't net them an all-star like Smith

Yeah if Houston offer Patterson and a pick then 28 other teams will be calling to Hawks to bid against that proposal.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics
PICK 2: Trail Blazers
PG: Lillard/ReggieJackson
SG: D. Green/Miller/Wroten
SF: Leonard/Prince
PF: Aldridge/Diaw
C:  Noah/Birdman/Perkins

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog