Author Topic: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert  (Read 1945 times)

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Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 06:13:46 PM »

Offline ssspence

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This deal only makes sense if the C's are blowing it up, and trying to open up cap space going forward.  Dalembert is terrible, and would be hated by Doc, and likely never play...not to mention at this point in his career is a worse player than Bass, Terry and Wilcox, and Drew Gooden is a shadow of his former (mediocre) self.  Dalembert puts up some stats, and he can be disruptive, but he is generally as disruptive to his own team than the opponents, and that is magnified when playing in a complex system like the C's, where execution by all 5 players is key.  He would be an upgrade over Collins, but would really hurt the team overall.

So you like the deal...

LOVE it.

I'm not immune to the concern around Delambert's ability to pick up the Cs system.

But assuming a little ramp time for him, I'd rather take Delambert into a 2013 Celtics playoff series than Terry. I'm sure that will be seen as extreme -- just how I feel.

I don't like Dalembert at all, and think that he needs more than a little ramp up time.  I think there would be a really good chance he would never get out of Docs doghouse.

With that said, Dalembert for Terry straight up makes a lot more sense for the C's.  Because you aren't replacing Bass with Dalembert, you are replacing Collins with Dalembert, and basically trading out Terry for Barbosa as your 4th guard, while opening up space under the tax next year.

THAT makes sense.

Sure -- but I don't see the Bucks doing that deal. A big motivator would be moving Gooden.

I see Delambert playing more than Collins, and playing along side KG in numerous instances. I also see Sully playing more minutes with Bass gone, and Lee / Barbosa playing more with Terry gone.

So the Cs are swapping:

Collins for Delambert (increased minutes)
Terry for Barbosa (reduced minutes with the balance going to Lee)
Bass for Gooden (reduced minutes with the balance going to KG, Green)





« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 06:25:02 PM by ssspence »

Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 06:46:25 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Milwaukee doesn't need Jason Terry, and needs Dalembert more than Bass. Only way this could happen is if they're into charity.

charity is paying a guy $20mil over 3 years to play zero minutes when you're a small market, low revenue NBA team.
And to fix that ... yes, you guessed it, they'll take on ever more money for players that they don't need while giving away players that they do need. Smart move... NOT!

Who do they need?
Dalembert, one of their two healthy centers.
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Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 06:51:52 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Milwaukee is trading bigs, and they have a bunch, why are they going to bring in another big?

They have

Larry Sanders
John Henson
Ekpe Udoh
Ersan Ilyasova
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Samuel Dalembert
Drew Gooden
Joel Pryzbilla

What the Bucks need are a high quality SF that can start and a third guard that can produce. Terry or Lee going there makes some sense but not Bass. They don't need him with a raft of PFs and Cs on board already.

Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2013, 07:00:28 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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If Milwaukee is trading bigs, and they have a bunch, why are they going to bring in another big?

They have

Larry Sanders
John Henson
Ekpe Udoh
Ersan Ilyasova
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Samuel Dalembert
Drew Gooden
Joel Pryzbilla

What the Bucks need are a high quality SF that can start and a third guard that can produce. Terry or Lee going there makes some sense but not Bass. They don't need him with a raft of PFs and Cs on board already.
How is Terry making any sense when they already have Jennings, Ellis, Udrih, Dunleavy, and Daniels?
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Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 07:37:53 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Milwaukee is trading bigs, and they have a bunch, why are they going to bring in another big?

They have

Larry Sanders
John Henson
Ekpe Udoh
Ersan Ilyasova
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Samuel Dalembert
Drew Gooden
Joel Pryzbilla

What the Bucks need are a high quality SF that can start and a third guard that can produce. Terry or Lee going there makes some sense but not Bass. They don't need him with a raft of PFs and Cs on board already.
How is Terry making any sense when they already have Jennings, Ellis, Udrih, Dunleavy, and Daniels?
Because I see Dunleavy and Daniels as backup SFs not guards and I don't see Udrih as all that good. Terry's ability to play either guard position and produce almost as well as Ellis or Jennings but from the bench while giving those  guys time to rest would be huge for Milwaukee as almost 40% or more of their total offense comes from those two players and both are guards. When they sit that team struggles to score and if one of them sits it makes it easier to double the other than if another very good scoring option isn't on the floor.

Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2013, 07:38:36 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2013, 08:11:25 PM »

Offline ssspence

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If Milwaukee is trading bigs, and they have a bunch, why are they going to bring in another big?

They have

Larry Sanders
John Henson
Ekpe Udoh
Ersan Ilyasova
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Samuel Dalembert
Drew Gooden
Joel Pryzbilla

What the Bucks need are a high quality SF that can start and a third guard that can produce. Terry or Lee going there makes some sense but not Bass. They don't need him with a raft of PFs and Cs on board already.

So that they can trade Gooden -- a highly paid player who literally never plays, and is untradable outside a larger deal.

Hammond: 'Danny, I like Brandon fine, but why do I need him? I have a million 4s'

Ainge: 'Because I'm willing to swap him for Gooden, who might be the least tradable player in the league outside Bargnani and Ty Thomas. I'll take him if we can wrap this up.'

While one is expiring, also worth noting they're trading two bigs for one and a guard.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 08:19:41 PM by ssspence »

Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2013, 08:14:43 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Milwaukee doesn't need Jason Terry, and needs Dalembert more than Bass. Only way this could happen is if they're into charity.

charity is paying a guy $20mil over 3 years to play zero minutes when you're a small market, low revenue NBA team.
And to fix that ... yes, you guessed it, they'll take on ever more money for players that they don't need while giving away players that they do need. Smart move... NOT!

Who do they need?
Dalembert, one of their two healthy centers.

He's played 300 minutes this year -- total -- and only 24 minutes since 12/14.

Meanwhile, every single guard you mentioned them 'having' -- Jennings, Ellis, Dunleavy (who isn't a guard), Daniels, and Udrih -- is on an expiring contract. Every one.

Suggestion: abandon this thread.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 08:31:00 PM by ssspence »

Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 09:02:48 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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If Milwaukee is trading bigs, and they have a bunch, why are they going to bring in another big?

They have

Larry Sanders
John Henson
Ekpe Udoh
Ersan Ilyasova
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Samuel Dalembert
Drew Gooden
Joel Pryzbilla

What the Bucks need are a high quality SF that can start and a third guard that can produce. Terry or Lee going there makes some sense but not Bass. They don't need him with a raft of PFs and Cs on board already.

So that they can trade Gooden -- a highly paid player who literally never plays, and is untradable outside a larger deal.

Hammond: 'Danny, I like Brandon fine, but why do I need him? I have a million 4s'

Ainge: 'Because I'm willing to swap him for Gooden, who might be the least tradable player in the league outside Bargnani and Ty Thomas. I'll take him if we can wrap this up.'

While one is expiring, also worth noting they're trading two bigs for one and a guard.
Wait...

So their whole motivation for taking on Bass' remaining 2 years and $13.3 million and then sitting him and not playing him because of the amount of bigs they have that they are already playing is to get rid Gooden's remaining 2 years and $13.3 million.

I think I will take your advice and abandon the thread. That makes zero sense.

Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 09:17:46 AM »

Offline ssspence

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If Milwaukee is trading bigs, and they have a bunch, why are they going to bring in another big?

They have

Larry Sanders
John Henson
Ekpe Udoh
Ersan Ilyasova
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Samuel Dalembert
Drew Gooden
Joel Pryzbilla

What the Bucks need are a high quality SF that can start and a third guard that can produce. Terry or Lee going there makes some sense but not Bass. They don't need him with a raft of PFs and Cs on board already.

So that they can trade Gooden -- a highly paid player who literally never plays, and is untradable outside a larger deal.

Hammond: 'Danny, I like Brandon fine, but why do I need him? I have a million 4s'

Ainge: 'Because I'm willing to swap him for Gooden, who might be the least tradable player in the league outside Bargnani and Ty Thomas. I'll take him if we can wrap this up.'

While one is expiring, also worth noting they're trading two bigs for one and a guard.
Wait...

So their whole motivation for taking on Bass' remaining 2 years and $13.3 million and then sitting him and not playing him because of the amount of bigs they have that they are already playing is to get rid Gooden's remaining 2 years and $13.3 million.

I think I will take your advice and abandon the thread. That makes zero sense.

Good grief. Who said anything about Bass never playing? Bass is a better, younger player than Gooden. He's an upgrade... not a huge upgrade, but an upgrade nonetheless.

Sure -- if Milwaukee intended to literally never play Bass for the remainder of his contract -- like it appears they're going to do with Gooden -- then they wouldn't do the deal. I'd take it on faith that you might assume I wouldn't propose a trade where the opposing team intends to never play an acquired player a single minute -- though it seems that's asking to much.

Back to the point: The Bucks have little hope of being choosey in trading Gooden. Bass, whether he plays the remainder of his deal in MIL or is eventually traded, is a stronger asset than Gooden. 

As I point out in an adjacent thread, I do think the Bucks lack of guard assets could mean this element is unnecessary. But I'd take Gooden in exchange for Bass if need be.

Re: Bass, Terry and Wilcox for Gooden and Delambert
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2013, 09:34:15 AM »

Offline CelticsFan9

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The trade makes us worse.  Golden sucks and Dalembert is overrated on this board.

Plus Milwaukee doesn't need Bass or Wilcox.  They've got plenty of bigs.

They'd really like Terry, though.

 

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