Author Topic: Chad Ford on C's  (Read 6278 times)

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Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2013, 01:13:04 PM »

Offline ssspence

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What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.

Right. Confirmation would be pretty tough to come by, as I point out. So semantics -- maybe I should have used a different term than 'confirm', like 'suggests' or 'implies' or 'leaves the door open'. So why don't I do that for you so this might return to a discussion about Chad Ford's post:

While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It implies what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  It still looks like you're making non-existent distinctions to support your claim. Houston isn't trying to trade Harden but would if the offer was good enough, therefore he's a fairly untouchable franchise player. Boston isn't trying to trade Rondo but would if another team offered enough, therefore Danny is eager to move Rondo.

Show me where I say the Cs aren't trying to trade Rondo? That was your comment.

In the thread, I've claimed that Ford's report is indicative of my perception that Ainge has an ONGOING interest -- an eagerness, if you will -- in finding a deal for Rondo. I also claim that I feel Ainge discusses trading him with other GMs more frequently than a pretty large number of other teams do regarding the individual they'd describe as their best player, as Ainge did very pointedly about Rondo yesterday on CSNNE, and has numerous times this year.

To clarify this, why don't I use a few examples.

I don't believe that HOU has discussed trading Harden this year. I don't believe that MIA has discussed trading James this year. I don't believe that OKC has discussed trading Durant this year. I don't believe that NOP has discussed trading Davis this year. I don't believe that CLE has discussed trading Irving this year. I don't believe that NYK has discussed trading Carmelo this year. I don't believe that LAL has discussed trading Howard this year. I don't believe that LAC has discussed trading Paul this year. I don't believe that POR has discussed trading Aldridge this year. I don't believe that DET has discussed trading Monroe this year. I don't believe that CHI has discussed trading Rose this year. I don't believe that IND has discussed trading George this year. I don't believe that SAN has discussed trading Duncan this year. I don't believe that GSW has discussed trading Curry this year. I do believe that BOS has discussed trading Rondo this year.

Whether you agree with me about any of the above really doesn't matter to me. I just want to be sure I'm being 100% clear so that misrepresentation of my posts in this thread and / or misunderstanding of my POV on Chad Ford's report, might cease to occur and exist, respectively. 

We clear, Tim? I'm going to assume the answer is yes, that we disagree about the teams desire to trade Rondo, and move on to greener fields...

« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 02:24:31 PM by ssspence »

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2013, 01:14:35 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot

And, you wouldn't put Rondo on any of those lists?

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2013, 01:23:33 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.

Right. Confirmation would be pretty tough to come by, as I point out. So semantics -- maybe I should have used a different term than 'confirm', like 'suggests' or 'implies' or 'leaves the door open'. So why don't I do that for you so this might return to a discussion about Chad Ford's post:

While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It implies what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  It still looks like you're making non-existent distinctions to support your claim. Houston isn't trying to trade Harden but would if the offer was good enough, therefore he's a fairly untouchable franchise player. Boston isn't trying to trade Rondo but would if another team offered enough, therefore Danny is eager to move Rondo.

Show me where I say the Cs aren't trying to trade Rondo? That was your comment.

In the thread, I've claimed that Ford's report is indicative of my perception that Ainge has an ONGOING interest -- an eagerness, if you will -- in finding a deal for Rondo. I also claim that I feel Ainge discusses trading him with other GMs more frequently than a pretty large number of other teams do regarding the individual they'd describe as their best player, as Ainge did very pointedly about Rondo yesterday on CSNNE, and has numerous times this year.

To clarify this, why don't I use a few examples.

I don't believe that HOU has discussed trading Harden this year. I don't believe that MIA has discussed trading James this year. I don't believe that OKC has discussed trading Durant this year. I don't believe that NOP has discussed trading Davis this year. I don't believe that CLE has discussed trading Irving this year. I don't believe that NYK has discussed trading Carmelo this year. I don't believe that LAL has discussed trading Howard this year. I don't believe that LAC has discussed trading Paul this year. I don't believe that POR has discussed trading Aldridge this year. I don't believe that DET has discussed trading Monroe this year. I don't believe that CHI has discussed trading Rose this year. I don't believe that IND has discussed trading George this year. I don't believe that SAN has discussed trading Duncan this year. I don't believe that GSW has discussed trading Curry this year. I do believe that BOS has discussed trading Rondo this year.

Whether you agree with me about any of the above really doesn't matter to me. I just want to be sure I'm being 100% clear so that misrepresentation of my posts in this thread and / or misunderstanding of my POV on Chad Ford's report, might cease to occur and exist, respectively. 

We clear, Tim?

I checked out the Ainge interview.  I heard absolutely nothing in it that gave me the impression that he was "eager" to trade Rondo. 

Could you clarify what part of that interview gave you that impression?

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2013, 02:24:06 PM »

Offline BballTim

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What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  Your point is fairly incorrect as well. Danny isn't actively shopping Rondo around the league and he isn't saying that he's untouchable. That doesn't confirm what you and some others believe, it just doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

Semantics. You, me, and everyone else here have no idea how aggressively Ainge is shopping any player. And the only confirmation of such a belief about Rondo would come from Ainge announcing his intentions to trade the guy (not likely?) or Rondo actually being traded, at which point discussions Ainge's perceived desire to trade him would obviously be moot. 

  You say semantics but then go on to agree with me that Ainge's stance doesn't at all confirm your claim that Danny is eagerly trying to trade Rondo for a "more traditional" franchise player.

Right. Confirmation would be pretty tough to come by, as I point out. So semantics -- maybe I should have used a different term than 'confirm', like 'suggests' or 'implies' or 'leaves the door open'. So why don't I do that for you so this might return to a discussion about Chad Ford's post:

While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It implies what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

  It still looks like you're making non-existent distinctions to support your claim. Houston isn't trying to trade Harden but would if the offer was good enough, therefore he's a fairly untouchable franchise player. Boston isn't trying to trade Rondo but would if another team offered enough, therefore Danny is eager to move Rondo.

Show me where I say the Cs aren't trying to trade Rondo? That was your comment.

In the thread, I've claimed that Ford's report is indicative of my perception that Ainge has an ONGOING interest -- an eagerness, if you will -- in finding a deal for Rondo. I also claim that I feel Ainge discusses trading him with other GMs more frequently than a pretty large number of other teams do regarding the individual they'd describe as their best player, as Ainge did very pointedly about Rondo yesterday on CSNNE, and has numerous times this year.

To clarify this, why don't I use a few examples.

I don't believe that HOU has discussed trading Harden this year. I don't believe that MIA has discussed trading James this year. I don't believe that OKC has discussed trading Durant this year. I don't believe that NOP has discussed trading Davis this year. I don't believe that CLE has discussed trading Irving this year. I don't believe that NYK has discussed trading Carmelo this year. I don't believe that LAL has discussed trading Howard this year. I don't believe that LAC has discussed trading Paul this year. I don't believe that POR has discussed trading Aldridge this year. I don't believe that DET has discussed trading Monroe this year. I don't believe that CHI has discussed trading Rose this year. I don't believe that IND has discussed trading George this year. I don't believe that SAN has discussed trading Duncan this year. I don't believe that GSW has discussed trading Curry this year. I do believe that BOS has discussed trading Rondo this year.

Whether you agree with me about any of the above really doesn't matter to me. I just want to be sure I'm being 100% clear so that misrepresentation of my posts in this thread and / or misunderstanding of my POV on Chad Ford's report, might cease to occur and exist, respectively. 

We clear, Tim?

  I didn't misrepresent your post at all. The Chad Ford report said that trading Rondo wasn't seen as off the table. Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered? If that's your belief, I'd say you don't have a very realistic view of the nba at all.

  If you realize that most of the teams you listed refusing to entertain *any* trade proposals involving the players listed above is nonsensical, then you should realize that they *aren't* off the table in trade talks. In other words, in the same situation as Rondo, and any claim that Danny's more eager to trade Rondo than those teams are to trade those players is based on your interpreting the same situation different ways for different players to suit your opinion of Rondo.

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2013, 03:23:23 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered?

I'm not trying to say anything. I've not touched nor am I remotely interested in the theoretical untouchablility of any player in the league.

I get this fantasy point you're making -- even if I think its worthless (no offense). Everything is always on the table at every NBA stop because there's always a player or combo of players who is better than your best. Yes yes.... got it. What does that have to do with the actual NBA?
 
Do i think exploring the corners of this theory on csblog means its even remotely feasible that Riley calls Presti every couple of days and says: "Will you trade me Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka for James, Wade and Bosh? Just checking again"? Of course not. Do you?

Do I think the average NBA GM frequently discusses trading his best player... weekly, monthly, even yearly? "Hey Neil, I'd be open to sending you Irving if you'll send me back Paul. Just checking again." Of course not. Do you?
 
There are no reports about the players I listed being 'on the table'. There are no reports about these teams looking to trade these listed players because they don't want to trade these players, and aren't shameless enough to call an opposing team and ask for James, Durant, etc, and risk damaging their credibility with opposing GMs and player agents when they need to make a real blockbuster trade that involve circumstances beyond pure basketball (eg, Paul from New Orleans, Howard from Orlando, etc).

Do I think Ainge kicks alot more tires on trading Rondo than the GMs of the teams I listed do on said players? Yep. And that's why reports on Rondo like Ford's are far more frequent than you hear about those other teams and players.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's no smoke on any of these other situations, though there is with Rudy Gay (because they want to trade him), and Josh Smith (because they want to trade him), and so on...
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 03:50:55 PM by ssspence »

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2013, 03:52:29 PM »

Online Moranis

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What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot

And, you wouldn't put Rondo on any of those lists?
No. I think Ainge would love to move Rondo if he could get a couple of young players at least one of which has proven to at least be good (like the rumored trade for Steph Curry last year).  I don't believe Ainge thinks Rondo is the type of player to build around, but also recognizes he is very good and has a nice contract so he isn't just going to dump him.  For example, I think Ainge would move Rondo for Cousins and wouldn't give it a second thought.
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Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2013, 04:07:00 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered?

I'm not trying to say anything. I've not touched nor am I remotely interested in the theoretical untouchablility of any player in the league.

  I agree, you're trying to imply that many players are untouchable but you don't want to make the claim because it's so silly. You're claiming (for example) that Detroit hasn't had any discussions involving trading Monroe all year. There are two possible explanations for this. Either there's no team in the nba that has an interest in acquiring Monroe or that Detroit has made it known throughout the league that he's not available for trade no matter what the offer.

  Which is it? No interest in the players you listed, or are they untouchable? Again, you aren't "trying" to say they're untouchable, you're just trying to imply it.


There are no reports about the players I listed being 'on the table'. There are no reports about these teams looking to trade these listed players because they don't want to trade these players, and aren't shameless enough to call an opposing team and ask for James, Durant, etc, and risk their credibility when they need to make a real blockbuster trade that involve circumstances beyond pure basketball (eg, Paul from New Orleans, Howard from Orlando, etc)

  Again, it may or may not be true that none of these teams are looking to trade these players, but there's no report of Ainge trying to trade Rondo. In fact every time you hear a rumor that the Celts are shopping Rondo you hear Ainge (who's basically confirmed other rumors in the past) deny that the Celts are trying to trade Rondo.


Do I think Ainge kicks alot more tires on trading Rondo than the GMs of the teams I listed do on said players? Yep. And that's why reports on Rondo like Ford's are far more frequent than you hear about those other teams and players.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's no smoke on any of these other situations, though there is with Rudy Gay (because they want to trade him), and Josh Smith (because they want to trade him), blah blah blah...

  You're fairly certain that Danny's eager to trade Rondo for a "more traditional franchise player". Who did you have in mind as a trading partner? It's true that Danny kicks the tires more than a lot of gms (which obviously isn't a reflection on Rondo, it's the way Danny operates). But which tires do you imagine that he'd kick?

  You're claiming that most of the players who would fit into that category haven't been discussed in trades all year. How would Danny look into trading Rondo for (for example) Monroe or Aldridge without the other teams discussing those players with Danny?
 

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2013, 04:13:24 PM »

Offline BballTim

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What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot

And, you wouldn't put Rondo on any of those lists?
No. I think Ainge would love to move Rondo if he could get a couple of young players at least one of which has proven to at least be good (like the rumored trade for Steph Curry last year).  I don't believe Ainge thinks Rondo is the type of player to build around, but also recognizes he is very good and has a nice contract so he isn't just going to dump him.  For example, I think Ainge would move Rondo for Cousins and wouldn't give it a second thought.

  So you're under the impression that Danny wouldn't trade KG for players like Bosh, Griffin, Love, Horford or Aldridge but he'd trade Rondo for a couple of young player, one of which needs to be "good"? Yikes.

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2013, 04:34:33 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered?

I'm not trying to say anything. I've not touched nor am I remotely interested in the theoretical untouchablility of any player in the league.

  I agree, you're trying to imply that many players are untouchable but you don't want to make the claim because it's so silly. You're claiming (for example) that Detroit hasn't had any discussions involving trading Monroe all year. There are two possible explanations for this. Either there's no team in the nba that has an interest in acquiring Monroe or that Detroit has made it known throughout the league that he's not available for trade no matter what the offer.

  Which is it? No interest in the players you listed, or are they untouchable? Again, you aren't "trying" to say they're untouchable, you're just trying to imply it.


There are no reports about the players I listed being 'on the table'. There are no reports about these teams looking to trade these listed players because they don't want to trade these players, and aren't shameless enough to call an opposing team and ask for James, Durant, etc, and risk their credibility when they need to make a real blockbuster trade that involve circumstances beyond pure basketball (eg, Paul from New Orleans, Howard from Orlando, etc)

  Again, it may or may not be true that none of these teams are looking to trade these players, but there's no report of Ainge trying to trade Rondo. In fact every time you hear a rumor that the Celts are shopping Rondo you hear Ainge (who's basically confirmed other rumors in the past) deny that the Celts are trying to trade Rondo.


Do I think Ainge kicks alot more tires on trading Rondo than the GMs of the teams I listed do on said players? Yep. And that's why reports on Rondo like Ford's are far more frequent than you hear about those other teams and players.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's no smoke on any of these other situations, though there is with Rudy Gay (because they want to trade him), and Josh Smith (because they want to trade him), blah blah blah...

  You're fairly certain that Danny's eager to trade Rondo for a "more traditional franchise player". Who did you have in mind as a trading partner? It's true that Danny kicks the tires more than a lot of gms (which obviously isn't a reflection on Rondo, it's the way Danny operates). But which tires do you imagine that he'd kick?

  You're claiming that most of the players who would fit into that category haven't been discussed in trades all year. How would Danny look into trading Rondo for (for example) Monroe or Aldridge without the other teams discussing those players with Danny?
 

I don't think even you know what point you're trying to make here anymore, I don't know what Ainge denials you're referring to, and I'm not interested at all in your POV on Rondo's trade value.

I'll remember to avoid direct conversations with you in the future. Best of luck, and be well.


Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2013, 05:42:47 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Look, I still think it's completely bogus.  I have never seen any legitimate evidence that Danny Ainge is actively trying to shop Rajon Rondo.  Unfortunately, for Rajon, the writers, bloggers, and twitterers out there know that Rondo is a polarizing force among Celtics fans and they also know that Danny's policy is to not deny or confirm specific rumors.  This adds up to a field day for false Rondo rumors. 

When fans write that they think that Ainge is "eager" to deal Rondo, I believe that what they mean is that they are "eager" for Ainge to move Rondo.  These fans and bloggers only lead credence to rumors that were false to begin with.  It's a vicious cycle.

Anyway, I'll just keep my fingers crossed and wait for the deadline to pass. 

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2013, 05:57:41 PM »

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Rondo isnt going anywhere

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2013, 06:02:45 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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What a joke.

"I'm not trying to have it both ways, but I stick with my story; either Rondo is getting traded or he isn't." 

Lame.

Why do you have quotes around that? Not what he said...

I'm paraphrasing what he said.


You missed his point. What he's saying is that according to a number of teams the Celtics haven't ruled out trading Rondo before the deadline.

There's no news there.  I already knew that pretty much all NBA GMs are in constant conversations with their colleagues about any and all players. 

Despite Ford's piece, I'd be completely shocked if Rajon Rondo is moved this season.

Incorrect on the first point. There are a number of players in the league who are certainly not in trade discussions. It seems unnecessary to make a comprehensive list, but: James. Durant. Anthony Davis. All the way down to a guy like Harden, who presumably Morey is not even bothering to talk about. So let's say 1/3 to 1/2 half the teams in the league have a player they don't entertain discussion on in any ongoing way.

Many Cs fans choose to call Rondo the best PG in the league, a Top 10 player, etc. While it may not be 'news', I'd say it's insightful to know that Ainge still doesn't feel that way about Rondo. Therefore, doubtful he ever will. It confirms what I and some others around here believe -- that Ainge is eager to trade Rondo in his prime for a more traditional 'franchise player'. I think his interview with Dickerson last night also made this pretty clear.

I agree with you on the second point, though I think 'completely shocked' is putting it strongly. I don't see him being moved either.

Regardless, I have a hard time understanding why it's lame for Ford to report that opposing teams have told him the Cs remain open to dealing anyone including Rondo.

If you are going to make the claim that there are at least 10 to 15 players that are "untouchable", then I do think it's necessary to make a comprehensive list. 

I'd like to know which players you consider to be on that list.  I tend to doubt that James Harden is on it.  You might be right about the other three.
I believe these players would only get moved if a trade involving one of these other players was on the table (and then not in all instances) or if they specifically ask to be traded

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Garnett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
James Harden
Derrick Rose

These guys are only getting moved (unless asked to be moved) with a total blown away offer (which is almost never going to happen because the value given up would be too much - unless it involves another such player)
Dirk Nowtizki
Blake Griffin
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Deron Williams
Russ Westbrook
Stephen Curry
Ricky Rubio

These types of players aren't out in the market, but could likely be acquired if you blew the team away
Paul Pierce
Al Horford
Lamarcus Aldridge
Kevin Love
Marc Gasol

That doesn't account for players like Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Demarcus Cousins, etc. which are expiring contracts but which their current team would probably like to keep long term so a trade would require a lot

And, you wouldn't put Rondo on any of those lists?
No. I think Ainge would love to move Rondo if he could get a couple of young players at least one of which has proven to at least be good (like the rumored trade for Steph Curry last year).  I don't believe Ainge thinks Rondo is the type of player to build around, but also recognizes he is very good and has a nice contract so he isn't just going to dump him.  For example, I think Ainge would move Rondo for Cousins and wouldn't give it a second thought.

  So you're under the impression that Danny wouldn't trade KG for players like Bosh, Griffin, Love, Horford or Aldridge but he'd trade Rondo for a couple of young player, one of which needs to be "good"? Yikes.

yikes indeed. apparently Ricky Rubio is more of a franchise player then rondo. I agree with the majority of the players on that list but not adding rondo somewhere when pierce makes the list is laughable and a waste of the time it took to type including the fact that some players on the list have already been traded..deron Williams really? wouldn't trade rondo for him if my life depended on it
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 06:10:58 PM by scaryjerry »

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2013, 06:47:27 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Are you trying to say that all of the players you listed are off the table? That Portland and GS have told the rest of the league that they won't consider trading Aldridge or Curry in any deal at all, no matter who's offered?

I'm not trying to say anything. I've not touched nor am I remotely interested in the theoretical untouchablility of any player in the league.

  I agree, you're trying to imply that many players are untouchable but you don't want to make the claim because it's so silly. You're claiming (for example) that Detroit hasn't had any discussions involving trading Monroe all year. There are two possible explanations for this. Either there's no team in the nba that has an interest in acquiring Monroe or that Detroit has made it known throughout the league that he's not available for trade no matter what the offer.

  Which is it? No interest in the players you listed, or are they untouchable? Again, you aren't "trying" to say they're untouchable, you're just trying to imply it.


There are no reports about the players I listed being 'on the table'. There are no reports about these teams looking to trade these listed players because they don't want to trade these players, and aren't shameless enough to call an opposing team and ask for James, Durant, etc, and risk their credibility when they need to make a real blockbuster trade that involve circumstances beyond pure basketball (eg, Paul from New Orleans, Howard from Orlando, etc)

  Again, it may or may not be true that none of these teams are looking to trade these players, but there's no report of Ainge trying to trade Rondo. In fact every time you hear a rumor that the Celts are shopping Rondo you hear Ainge (who's basically confirmed other rumors in the past) deny that the Celts are trying to trade Rondo.


Do I think Ainge kicks alot more tires on trading Rondo than the GMs of the teams I listed do on said players? Yep. And that's why reports on Rondo like Ford's are far more frequent than you hear about those other teams and players.

Where there's smoke, there's fire. And there's no smoke on any of these other situations, though there is with Rudy Gay (because they want to trade him), and Josh Smith (because they want to trade him), blah blah blah...

  You're fairly certain that Danny's eager to trade Rondo for a "more traditional franchise player". Who did you have in mind as a trading partner? It's true that Danny kicks the tires more than a lot of gms (which obviously isn't a reflection on Rondo, it's the way Danny operates). But which tires do you imagine that he'd kick?

  You're claiming that most of the players who would fit into that category haven't been discussed in trades all year. How would Danny look into trading Rondo for (for example) Monroe or Aldridge without the other teams discussing those players with Danny?
 

I don't think even you know what point you're trying to make here anymore, I don't know what Ainge denials you're referring to, and I'm not interested at all in your POV on Rondo's trade value.

  In the time since Ainge explored a Rondo/Paul trade he's had multiple interviews where he denied that the current Rondo trade rumors were true and said that the Celts had no interest in trading Rondo. I'd say that your lack of knowledge of any of those interviews figures significantly into your assuredness that Danny's eager to trade Rondo. And I didn't discuss my POV on Rondo's trade value, Ijust questioned how you think Danny's able to kick the tires on Rondo for traditional franchise players when you think that the teams those players are on haven't discussed any trades involving those players. Apparently Danny's been kicking non-existent tires.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 08:39:57 PM by BballTim »

Re: Chad Ford on C's
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2013, 10:02:22 PM »

Online D.o.s.

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Danny has always kicked every tire, no news here at all.

Just that Danny is active and then Chad Ford's opinion on things.

Pretty much.

Also Chad Ford typically down on the Celtics, as he usually seems to be.  Giving us no chance to contend.  He is letting his opinion on that color the possibilities of what he things Ainge will do.

Again, no doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  But that doesn't mean he really has considered that much.  I believe Ainge knows this year could be very similar to last year and our team could very well be better equipped to beat Miami.

Chad Ford is pretty consistently misrepresented on this board. The fact is, he's one of the few 'insiders' who actually talks to real sources.

More importantly, it's very hard to blame him or any other objective observer for looking at the Cs and seeing a less-than-championship caliber team. If you were a Bobcats fan or a Blazers fan or a Kings fan, would you bet on Miami or Boston? OKC or Boston? LAC or Boston?

I think Ford's point is clear, and has some value. That is, more than simple tire kicking. Ainge gets that the time is now to either go one way or the other. So he's listening to all of it. If he can't improve their 'win now' chances -- something he likely feels they need to do to have a serious shot -- then he's going to consider, at the very least, more wholesale adjustments.

What Ford doesn't say, but I believe strongly is the case for the Cs and therefore a major factor, is that Pierce is not going to kept on his current contract this summer under almost any circumstances (other than a banner). He'll be offered a much lower 2 year deal -- say, $7-9mil a year. And who knows if he'll take it.

That likely increases the chances of a more lateral team-changing trade a little bit...

I don't excuse it that much.

This is the same exact thing that happened last year.  Our defense has been great and we have played legitimate teams. And experts count us out every year for the last 3-4 years.

As for his sources, again, I don't doubt Ainge has called about everyone.  I do doubt he wants to pay the prices that are being asked and I do believe he also knows this team seems prepped to be an exact repeat of last year, perhaps with an even better chance of beating Miami.

My issue is it's just the press acts like we weren't the closest team to beating Miami last year.  I know I'm a Celtics fan so yeah, but I still don't get it.

For what it's worth, that was probably the Pacers (before they totally wigged out and stopped hitting hibbert and west with the ball for the last couple games.)
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