Author Topic: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak  (Read 3869 times)

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Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2013, 08:24:02 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2013, 08:30:25 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.

There's actually quite a bit of flexibility on this roster.  If by "not flexible" you mean; we don't want to get rid of the players that are playing well, and nobody's going to give us much for the ones that aren't, then I guess we aren't very flexible. 

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2013, 09:00:01 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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I think its really shortsighted to trade anyone based on a six game sample.
Yes, and furthermore the correct answer is don't trade anyone. They are WINNING.  Why make a trade?

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2013, 10:47:53 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.

There's actually quite a bit of flexibility on this roster.  If by "not flexible" you mean; we don't want to get rid of the players that are playing well, and nobody's going to give us much for the ones that aren't, then I guess we aren't very flexible.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

We'd have to make pretty enormous changes to the roster to make a move with real impact.  The players that it would make sense to move in a minor deal aren't likely to give us enough return to make it worthwhile.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2013, 11:02:00 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Brandon Bass, but i'm beginning to think that he's still valuable because of this crap between the officials and Sully. Sullinger is already the better player IMO but he still needs a bit of seasoning. The team could use another real center to play behind KG... but they seem to be making out decent the way it is now. I just hate that Sullinger/Bass frontcourt duo, it's just too [dang] small.

Let's break it down according to position as it compares to 2007/08

'08-

PG- Rondo, Sam Cassell
SG- Ray Allen, Tony Allen, Eddie House
SF- Paul Pierce, James Posey
PF- Kevin Garnett, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, Brian Scalabrine
 C-  Kendrick Perkins, P.J. Brown

'13-

PG- Rondo
SG- Avery Bradley, Jason Terry, Courtney Lee, Leandro Barbosa
SF- Paul Pierce, Jeff Green
PF- Brandon Bass, Jared Sullinger, Chris Wilcox
 C- Kevin Garnett, Jason Collins

Obviously the SG situation is switched up because the defense first guy is now starting with the scoring SG coming off the bench. Another thing that stands out is the lack of a real backup PG... but with Paul Pierce & KG on the team i think it's okay to have that backup guy be primarily a scorer. The last major note would be the lack of another 7 footer, I hate to say it but Darko really would be perfect for this team right now. I think Danny Ainge nailed this offseason but Darko's health issues with his mother really threw a wrench in that.

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2013, 11:18:15 PM »

Offline mgent

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I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
That's not true, Terry has had 10 games with 15 or more points.  He shot 52% from the field and 43% from 3 in November, 37%/35% in December, and 35%/24% in January.  He has always been an up and down streaky shooter, and up until this month he was shooting his career averages.

He's 35 years old, and we knew the type of player we were signing.  Doc knew he wasn't going to get anything other than shooting out of him, and that's not an uncommon thing to turn around.  He's not just going to give up on him and give his minutes to Bradley and a much more streaky Lee.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2013, 11:31:11 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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I'd say Sully has made Bass expendable, I still would like to keep Terry for some big shots in the playoffs.

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2013, 04:05:06 AM »

Online j804

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I don't agree that Terry is expendable.  He is not playing well right now, but he is a proven clutch playoff performer.  He'll be there for us in the playoffs.

This.

Bass and a pick is my package that I am kicking the tires on to see what center it can get us. Any center. and when all the gm's say I dont want that package I sit tight with what we have.
I agree that's the only thing id do but still would be kinna hesitant because the starting unit with Bass has chemistry, even though they haven't played that well as of late they'll all get going soon.

I don't understand people wanting to trade Terry he's a guy you want to battle with on your side during the playoffs


Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2013, 08:06:02 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
That's not true, Terry has had 10 games with 15 or more points.  He shot 52% from the field and 43% from 3 in November, 37%/35% in December, and 35%/24% in January.  He has always been an up and down streaky shooter, and up until this month he was shooting his career averages.

He's 35 years old, and we knew the type of player we were signing.  Doc knew he wasn't going to get anything other than shooting out of him, and that's not an uncommon thing to turn around.  He's not just going to give up on him and give his minutes to Bradley and a much more streaky Lee.


Terry has had some "on" games for sure.  But he's had many more "off" games, and some of those games where she scored 15+ he took a TON of shots.

The problem with Terry is the same as it was with Ray: if he isn't nailing those shots at a high percentage, he doesn't bring much else to the table.  The thing with Terry was supposed to be a trade-off for the great shooting percentages for some ability to create his own shot off the dribble and help the team bust out of slumps. 

Yet that hasn't really materialized, whether because Terry is struggling this season or that he hasn't been utilized to maximize his abilities.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2013, 04:27:34 PM »

Offline mgent

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I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
That's not true, Terry has had 10 games with 15 or more points.  He shot 52% from the field and 43% from 3 in November, 37%/35% in December, and 35%/24% in January.  He has always been an up and down streaky shooter, and up until this month he was shooting his career averages.

He's 35 years old, and we knew the type of player we were signing.  Doc knew he wasn't going to get anything other than shooting out of him, and that's not an uncommon thing to turn around.  He's not just going to give up on him and give his minutes to Bradley and a much more streaky Lee.


Terry has had some "on" games for sure.  But he's had many more "off" games, and some of those games where she scored 15+ he took a TON of shots.

The problem with Terry is the same as it was with Ray: if he isn't nailing those shots at a high percentage, he doesn't bring much else to the table.  The thing with Terry was supposed to be a trade-off for the great shooting percentages for some ability to create his own shot off the dribble and help the team bust out of slumps. 

Yet that hasn't really materialized, whether because Terry is struggling this season or that he hasn't been utilized to maximize his abilities.
Again, that's completely false.

You know the definition of a streaky shooter right?  He has games where he can't hit and then others where he doesn't miss.  That's how he averages out.  Much different from a volume scorer.

In those games he shot an extremely efficient 56% from the field and 48% from 3.  In half the games he took 10 shots or less.

Erase 1 game in Milwaukee with no Rondo where the entire team struggled (aside from Green) and we're talking about a blistering 58-95 from the field (61%) and 26-49 from 3 (53%).

As for not doing anything else when his shot isn't falling, he had 11 assists and 3 steals in that Milwaukee game.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 04:33:12 PM by mgent »
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2013, 06:02:16 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't agree with the OP's statement.

These are team wins.  As well, Bass has been quite solid.  He's actually been playing defense for the first time all year and blocking some shots.

You'd also change your tune real quick if someone went down with an injury.

If we could just trade Bass and a pick for a big that'd be fine.  But I don't see it happening.

In this win streak Terry is contributing very little, so I think we could stand to lose him without changing much of what we're doing well right now.

And any trade of Bass assumes we'd be getting a more capable big in return.  Bass has been nice in this stretch, but he has been far from indispensible.  He makes some solid defensive plays and hits some mid-range shots.  We'd still be better off with a guy who has legitimate size and who can bother shots near the rim.  We're still expecting KG and Jason Collins to do all of the work of protecting the rim.

1) Terry not doing too much doesn't mean he won't ever do anything.  Or Lee, Rondo, or Bradley won't get hurt.  6 games is a season now?  He has had his moments even on this streak.

2) You aren't going to get that for Bass.  If you can, by all means do.  But I don't see it happening.


1) It's not just this streak.  Terry has been pretty useless all season.  It's just becoming more noticeable now because Lee is actually playing well, so Terry is taking minutes away from Bradley / Lee.

2) That's kind of the point I'm trying to make here, though.  We don't have very many tradeable assets.  The ones that we're likely to be willing to part with (except in a blockbuster deal), are not likely to get us much in return.

Not a lot of flexibility with the current roster.
That's not true, Terry has had 10 games with 15 or more points.  He shot 52% from the field and 43% from 3 in November, 37%/35% in December, and 35%/24% in January.  He has always been an up and down streaky shooter, and up until this month he was shooting his career averages.

He's 35 years old, and we knew the type of player we were signing.  Doc knew he wasn't going to get anything other than shooting out of him, and that's not an uncommon thing to turn around.  He's not just going to give up on him and give his minutes to Bradley and a much more streaky Lee.


Terry has had some "on" games for sure.  But he's had many more "off" games, and some of those games where she scored 15+ he took a TON of shots.

The problem with Terry is the same as it was with Ray: if he isn't nailing those shots at a high percentage, he doesn't bring much else to the table.  The thing with Terry was supposed to be a trade-off for the great shooting percentages for some ability to create his own shot off the dribble and help the team bust out of slumps. 

Yet that hasn't really materialized, whether because Terry is struggling this season or that he hasn't been utilized to maximize his abilities.
Again, that's completely false.

You know the definition of a streaky shooter right?  He has games where he can't hit and then others where he doesn't miss.  That's how he averages out.  Much different from a volume scorer.

In those games he shot an extremely efficient 56% from the field and 48% from 3.  In half the games he took 10 shots or less.

Erase 1 game in Milwaukee with no Rondo where the entire team struggled (aside from Green) and we're talking about a blistering 58-95 from the field (61%) and 26-49 from 3 (53%).

As for not doing anything else when his shot isn't falling, he had 11 assists and 3 steals in that Milwaukee game.

The bottom line for me is I just haven't seen anything this season to make me think Terry at this best brings more to the table than Lee at his best. 

There really aren't rotation minutes to play both Terry and Lee the kind of minutes each is best suited to playing (20-25).  So if there's a way to improve the team by giving up Terry, I'd be willing to do it.
Quote from: BBallTim
Parker isn't going to score 30 ppg and rebuilds generally take longer than 1 year. Relax.

Re: Expendable Pieces Based on the Win Streak
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2013, 07:53:48 AM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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I think its really shortsighted to trade anyone based on a six game sample.
Yes, and furthermore the correct answer is don't trade anyone. They are WINNING.  Why make a trade?

ummmmmmm we poo pooed the bed against NOLA for heaven's sake. The real underlier here is we did not attack. That lies solely on doc rivers yet we have 4 dribble drivers and a couple cutters. KG and sully can post up. We need a big who will live in the paint. MAke it happen Danny. This team as currently constructed is not winning jack if we continue to resort to terrible styles of play relying on low % shots from outside all night. insanity.

 

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