Author Topic: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant  (Read 8984 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2013, 08:24:40 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23830
  • Tommy Points: -29118
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Great player, hard worker, killer instinct (although not necessarily clutch), dirtbag human being, terrible teammate


D. Cousins / F. Ezeli / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / V. Carter / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / M. Ginobil / B. Gordon
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2013, 08:47:49 AM »

Offline moiso

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • ****
  • Posts: 4357
  • Tommy Points: 126
Kobe's having a great season so far.  He's been scoring at a very efficient rate.

Bryant has even said that he might start chasing Kareem's scoring record than the sixth chip, so if that's what he's trying ti accomplish, then he's doing what he has to do to get it.

I think that's where people have a problem...maybe?

Rondo would sacrifice his assist totals for sure. Garnett and Pierce would both sacrifice individual glory in the same position.

Hell, as much as I hate using LeBron James as an example, he sacrificed to get a championship.

But I think the loyalty our guys and a few other guys in the league have makes their desire that much sweeter. It's like they're doing it for the franchise whereas the aforementioned 2 were doing things for personal glory.
sacrifice what?  Without Kobe scoring that team would get destroyed.  I mean have you actually looked at the Lakers lineup.  I mean the Lakers starting lineup against the Thunder (2 games ago) was: Earl Clark, Metta World Peace, Robert Sacre, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash.  The bench consists of Antawn Jamison, Chris Duhon, Jodie Meeks, Darius Morris, and Devan Ebanks.  Who exactly is Kobe supposed to sacrifice for?  I mean seriously.  If Kobe wasn't scoring the Lakers would be far far worse than they actually are. 

Dwight came back for their last game, but they are still starting Earl Clark.  The reality is the Lakers have absolutely no bench, any injury cripples them, and they have had a lot of injuries, which isn't surprising given the players and their ages and injury issues.  Everyone has always said, that the Lakers just need to get to the playoffs healthy to be a threat.  It looks like they might not be able to do it.  They need depth and a lot of it.
He seems to take the same number of shots whether everyone is in the lineup or not.  A few too many times I saw box scores where Kobe takes 30 shots and Howard and Gasol had 8 to 10. 

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2013, 08:56:47 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3342
  • Tommy Points: 367
Kobe's having a great season so far.  He's been scoring at a very efficient rate.

Bryant has even said that he might start chasing Kareem's scoring record than the sixth chip, so if that's what he's trying ti accomplish, then he's doing what he has to do to get it.

I think that's where people have a problem...maybe?

Rondo would sacrifice his assist totals for sure. Garnett and Pierce would both sacrifice individual glory in the same position.

Hell, as much as I hate using LeBron James as an example, he sacrificed to get a championship.

But I think the loyalty our guys and a few other guys in the league have makes their desire that much sweeter. It's like they're doing it for the franchise whereas the aforementioned 2 were doing things for personal glory.
sacrifice what?  Without Kobe scoring that team would get destroyed.  I mean have you actually looked at the Lakers lineup.  I mean the Lakers starting lineup against the Thunder (2 games ago) was: Earl Clark, Metta World Peace, Robert Sacre, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash.  The bench consists of Antawn Jamison, Chris Duhon, Jodie Meeks, Darius Morris, and Devan Ebanks.  Who exactly is Kobe supposed to sacrifice for?  I mean seriously.  If Kobe wasn't scoring the Lakers would be far far worse than they actually are. 

Dwight came back for their last game, but they are still starting Earl Clark.  The reality is the Lakers have absolutely no bench, any injury cripples them, and they have had a lot of injuries, which isn't surprising given the players and their ages and injury issues.  Everyone has always said, that the Lakers just need to get to the playoffs healthy to be a threat.  It looks like they might not be able to do it.  They need depth and a lot of it.

I'm under the impression Pau Gasol didn't get the looks he should have. Instead apparently he's in the high post catching and shooting. Getting berated daily by Kobe Bryant certainly doesn't help his state of mind and resulting "softness".

Does Nash get the ball? I suspect there's a lot of isolating Kobe Bryant right now. The only Lakers game I watched this season was the first half of the Lakers-Clippers and Nash wasn't getting the ball a lot that game.

They call this (his high volume scoring) "killer instinct", "scorer's mentality"...but with one of the best passers and top big men, he just keeps jacking. I just feel like it's a bunch of Hollywood fluff.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just that I have the luxury of watching Garnett, Rondo and even Pierce who share the ball so darn well (the Rondo part might not be a luxury for some of you but I sure love it).

I can't stand watching the Lakers.

Either way, loving the demise. Only downside is Nash latched on to the wrong team.

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2013, 09:16:32 AM »

Online pearljammer10

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10693
  • Tommy Points: 669
Kobe's having a great season so far.  He's been scoring at a very efficient rate.

Bryant has even said that he might start chasing Kareem's scoring record than the sixth chip, so if that's what he's trying ti accomplish, then he's doing what he has to do to get it.

I think that's where people have a problem...maybe?

Rondo would sacrifice his assist totals for sure. Garnett and Pierce would both sacrifice individual glory in the same position.

Hell, as much as I hate using LeBron James as an example, he sacrificed to get a championship.

But I think the loyalty our guys and a few other guys in the league have makes their desire that much sweeter. It's like they're doing it for the franchise whereas the aforementioned 2 were doing things for personal glory.
sacrifice what?  Without Kobe scoring that team would get destroyed.  I mean have you actually looked at the Lakers lineup.  I mean the Lakers starting lineup against the Thunder (2 games ago) was: Earl Clark, Metta World Peace, Robert Sacre, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash.  The bench consists of Antawn Jamison, Chris Duhon, Jodie Meeks, Darius Morris, and Devan Ebanks.  Who exactly is Kobe supposed to sacrifice for?  I mean seriously.  If Kobe wasn't scoring the Lakers would be far far worse than they actually are. 

Dwight came back for their last game, but they are still starting Earl Clark.  The reality is the Lakers have absolutely no bench, any injury cripples them, and they have had a lot of injuries, which isn't surprising given the players and their ages and injury issues.  Everyone has always said, that the Lakers just need to get to the playoffs healthy to be a threat.  It looks like they might not be able to do it.  They need depth and a lot of it.

I'm under the impression Pau Gasol didn't get the looks he should have. Instead apparently he's in the high post catching and shooting. Getting berated daily by Kobe Bryant certainly doesn't help his state of mind and resulting "softness".

Does Nash get the ball? I suspect there's a lot of isolating Kobe Bryant right now. The only Lakers game I watched this season was the first half of the Lakers-Clippers and Nash wasn't getting the ball a lot that game.

They call this (his high volume scoring) "killer instinct", "scorer's mentality"...but with one of the best passers and top big men, he just keeps jacking. I just feel like it's a bunch of Hollywood fluff.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just that I have the luxury of watching Garnett, Rondo and even Pierce who share the ball so darn well (the Rondo part might not be a luxury for some of you but I sure love it).

I can't stand watching the Lakers.

Either way, loving the demise. Only downside is Nash latched on to the wrong team.

Im still myself surprised that Nash chose the Lakers. He coulda been better off some place else. A reuniting with Dallas or running the Knicks offense alongside Kidd immediately come to mind.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PG:Rondo/Udrih/Dinwiddle
SG:Williams/Miller/Delladova
SF:Afflalo/Young
PF:Green/Hill/Powell
C:Hibbert/Nurcik/Bynum

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2013, 10:49:09 AM »

Offline Chelm

  • Jared Sullinger
  • Posts: 394
  • Tommy Points: 28
No guard has averaged 15ppg in his 17th season in the history of the NBA.  Kobe is averaging 30ppg.  47/35/84 are his percentages.  He's playing 40 min a game at his age and averaging 5 rebounds and 5 assists.  He's pretty awful at defending the young athletic guys, but he's also getting 1.5 steals a game.
I did not know this.  Amazing.

how many guards were as young as Kobe is in his 17th season?  People often forget Kobe had a 4 year head start on the other players in NBA history his stats are compared to.

Instead of saying Kobes in his 17th season, lets just look at his age.  At 34 hes averaging 30 points a game, when Jordan was 34 he was also averaging 30 points a game.

Still impressive, and Kobe is a great players, but im sick of these stats that are thrown out there that inflate the truth

So I looked it up on basketball-reference.com -- looking for age instead of seasons played -- and apparently 5 players have scored more than 25ppg at 34+ years of age.

Two players did so twice, Karl Malone (34, 36 years old) and Alex English (34, 35). Everybody else on the list was 34 years of age. K.Malone was therefore the oldest player to do so at 36 years of age in 1999-2000. The other players were Michael Jordan (1998), Bernard King (1991) and Dominique Wilkins (1994).

If Kobe can maintain his current scoring rate (29.8ppg), he would be the most prolific scorer of the group. Michael Jordan is the current high scorer at 28.7ppg. Bernard King had 28.4. The rest are between 25.0ppg and 27.0ppg. So Kobe only has two peers in terms how prolific he has been and is currently ahead of both of them.

If Kobe can maintain his current true shooting percentage (58.5%), he would rank 2nd best sandwiched in between Karl Malone's two seasons (59.7% and 58.2%). Nobody else managed to get higher than 53.5%. So it is pretty special what Karl Malone did and what Kobe Bryant is doing now efficiency wise.
Malone wasn't a guard.

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2013, 11:26:06 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9756
  • Tommy Points: 417
Kobe's having a great season so far.  He's been scoring at a very efficient rate.

Bryant has even said that he might start chasing Kareem's scoring record than the sixth chip, so if that's what he's trying ti accomplish, then he's doing what he has to do to get it.

I think that's where people have a problem...maybe?

Rondo would sacrifice his assist totals for sure. Garnett and Pierce would both sacrifice individual glory in the same position.

Hell, as much as I hate using LeBron James as an example, he sacrificed to get a championship.

But I think the loyalty our guys and a few other guys in the league have makes their desire that much sweeter. It's like they're doing it for the franchise whereas the aforementioned 2 were doing things for personal glory.
sacrifice what?  Without Kobe scoring that team would get destroyed.  I mean have you actually looked at the Lakers lineup.  I mean the Lakers starting lineup against the Thunder (2 games ago) was: Earl Clark, Metta World Peace, Robert Sacre, Kobe Bryant, and Steve Nash.  The bench consists of Antawn Jamison, Chris Duhon, Jodie Meeks, Darius Morris, and Devan Ebanks.  Who exactly is Kobe supposed to sacrifice for?  I mean seriously.  If Kobe wasn't scoring the Lakers would be far far worse than they actually are. 

Dwight came back for their last game, but they are still starting Earl Clark.  The reality is the Lakers have absolutely no bench, any injury cripples them, and they have had a lot of injuries, which isn't surprising given the players and their ages and injury issues.  Everyone has always said, that the Lakers just need to get to the playoffs healthy to be a threat.  It looks like they might not be able to do it.  They need depth and a lot of it.

I'm under the impression Pau Gasol didn't get the looks he should have. Instead apparently he's in the high post catching and shooting. Getting berated daily by Kobe Bryant certainly doesn't help his state of mind and resulting "softness".

Does Nash get the ball? I suspect there's a lot of isolating Kobe Bryant right now. The only Lakers game I watched this season was the first half of the Lakers-Clippers and Nash wasn't getting the ball a lot that game.

They call this (his high volume scoring) "killer instinct", "scorer's mentality"...but with one of the best passers and top big men, he just keeps jacking. I just feel like it's a bunch of Hollywood fluff.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just that I have the luxury of watching Garnett, Rondo and even Pierce who share the ball so darn well (the Rondo part might not be a luxury for some of you but I sure love it).

I can't stand watching the Lakers.

Either way, loving the demise. Only downside is Nash latched on to the wrong team.
You do realize Kobe Bryant is 4th in the league among shooting guards for FG% right?  Wade, Brooks, and Dudley are the only 3 SG's ahead of him and Wade is the only one within 10 points of him per game.  When you look at just 2 point percentage, Kobe leads all SG's.  He is 4th in PPS among SG's with only Harden, Martin, and Allen ahead of him.  You are acting like Kobe is just chucking and not hitting.

Kobe is also far more efficient than every other Laker except Dwight and Nash, and they are both getting plenty of looks, you know when they actually play.  I mean should Kobe pass up a shot to pass to Pau and his 41.6% or should Kobe shoot it and take the chances on his just under 48%. 

This thread is nothing more than Celtics fans taking the chance to bash the Lakers.
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2013, 02:50:04 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2813
  • Tommy Points: 275
Says more about Lakers management than Bryant.

Los Nash is a horrible fit for this team.  Howard, while functionally a better fit on a defensive-oriented team, gives them one more diva for management to deal with along with Gasol, Artest, and los Nash.

This was predictably a train wreck.

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2013, 03:58:15 PM »

Online Kane3387

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6699
  • Tommy Points: 640
  • Intensity!!!
He's overrated as an all-time great or legend. Amazing scorer and individual talent, but was never someone consistently great at making his teammates better.

DKC Sacramento Kings
'15 1st - SAC (LAC swap), BKN (ATL can swap), MEM(prot), CHR (prot)
'16 1st - best of SAC & LAC
'17 1st - SAC (DAL swap), MIA

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2013, 04:02:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9756
  • Tommy Points: 417
Amazing scorer and individual talent, but was never someone consistently great at making his teammates better.
Seems like you could be talking about Jordan there.
2014 Pick 2 Draft 18th pick of 20
Sacramento Kings
Starters - Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon, Jimmy Butler, Dirk Nowitzki, Demarcus Cousins
Bench - Kendall Marshall, Michael Carter-Williams, Vince Carter, Wesley Johnson, Marcus Morris, Miles Plumlee, Nerlens Noel

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2013, 04:04:04 PM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Bailey Howell
  • ***
  • Posts: 3875
  • Tommy Points: 215
Great player, hard worker, killer instinct (although not necessarily clutch), dirtbag human being, terrible teammate

This about sums it up.  Also: refers to himself in the third person with a nickname THAT HE MADE UP.  Gross.


He's overrated as an all-time great or legend. Amazing scorer and individual talent, but was never someone consistently great at making his teammates better.


I agree with this.  Not that he isn't still one of the better players to play but there players from the era I think are better, Shaq being one of them for sure.  Also KG and Duncan.  But that's not the popular narrative.

When LeBron was catching all hell for going to Miami, Kobe must have been loving that he has never gotten any sort of label as a bandwagoner or guy who "has to team up with other talents to win" because he doesn't have to do it in free agency, the Lakers just do it for him.  That's probably what annoys me most, that Kobe gets all the credit for winning any title he has as if he didn't play with the players he has played with.

I'm not a big fan of the label anyways because I think you always need multiple great players but regardless, the narrative was one sided.


Amazing scorer and individual talent, but was never someone consistently great at making his teammates better.
Seems like you could be talking about Jordan there.

So Jordan was a terrible teammate?  I don't think so.

He learned to play as a team.  Started out playing somewhat selfish (though you can debate if he had a real option not to) but he was not selfish in the way Kobe later on when he was winning titles.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 04:12:24 PM by Snakehead »


"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2013, 04:10:57 PM »

Offline D Dub

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1661
  • Tommy Points: 75
it says Kobe has a really low bball IQ. 

Kobe FGA < 20:
10 wins, 3 losses

Kobe FGA > 20:
6 wins, 20 losses

don't care how efficient he's shooting, when the end result is everyone else standing around watching Kobe going 1v5, it's bad basketball. 

watching most of their games, I see a guy whose bent on catching Kareem & doesn't care much for playing defense or making his teammates better.






Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2013, 04:13:59 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Global Moderator
  • Bob Cousy
  • **************************
  • Posts: 26432
  • Tommy Points: 1006
While I'm open to the criticism that Kobe's shooting so much can freeze the overall flow of his team, I don't think this holds up:

it says Kobe has a really low bball IQ. 

Kobe FGA < 20:
10 wins, 3 losses

Kobe FGA > 20:
6 wins, 20 losses
Reminds me of the joking statement:

"Teams that kneel down 3 or more times in a game win XX% of the time, coaches should call for 3 kneel downs on their first posession"

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2013, 04:16:36 PM »

Offline D Dub

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1661
  • Tommy Points: 75
While I'm open to the criticism that Kobe's shooting so much can freeze the overall flow of his team, I don't think this holds up:

it says Kobe has a really low bball IQ. 

Kobe FGA < 20:
10 wins, 3 losses

Kobe FGA > 20:
6 wins, 20 losses
Reminds me of the joking statement:

"Teams that kneel down 3 or more times in a game win XX% of the time, coaches should call for 3 kneel downs on their first posession"

with all due respect, that's a pretty weak comparison. 

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2013, 04:16:43 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

  • DKC Commish
  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2964
  • Tommy Points: 398
While I'm open to the criticism that Kobe's shooting so much can freeze the overall flow of his team, I don't think this holds up:

it says Kobe has a really low bball IQ. 

Kobe FGA < 20:
10 wins, 3 losses

Kobe FGA > 20:
6 wins, 20 losses
Reminds me of the joking statement:

"Teams that kneel down 3 or more times in a game win XX% of the time, coaches should call for 3 kneel downs on their first posession"

If what you're trying to say here is that the reason they're 6-20 in those games is because Kobe HAS to take those shots (because everyone else is stinking) then I agree.

Very similar to Rondo on the C's. His most dominant games are in losses, when he has to make up the slack for struggling players. When his teammates are clicking, however, he just runs the offense and focuses a little more on defense, neither of which shows up on the stat sheet.


Starters: D.Rose - W.Matthews - J.Butler - T.Gibson - J.Noah
Reserves: J.Nelson - A.Bradley - N.Batum - B.Diaw - J.Freeland | T.Wroten

DKC Rosters

Re: What this Laker season says about Kobe Bryant
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2013, 04:17:10 PM »

Offline ScottHow

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1712
  • Tommy Points: 354
  • It's what I do! It's who I am!
    • Sports Paintings
Great player, hard worker, killer instinct (although not necessarily clutch), dirtbag human being, terrible teammate

This