Author Topic: Doc "not playing rookies"  (Read 3335 times)

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Offline CelticG1

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Doc "not playing rookies"
« on: January 10, 2013, 01:10:37 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?

I mean look at AB and Sully right now, could he of brought AB and is bringing Sully along any better?

Rookies he didn't play:

Jjj
Etuan Moore
Semih Erden
Luke Harangody
Gabe pruit
Bill Walker

I can't even think of many others right now but I think Doc knows whatvhes doing. Whether he sees it in practice or sees it in garbage time, I think he's honest when he says he will play guys who are ready (and worthy)

Offline esel1000

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 01:14:44 PM »
its not that Doc doesn't play rookies. its that he doesn't play rookies that aren't ready (i.e don't understand defensive rotations, etc). He develops them, and he's absolutely right.

That shows how amazing Sully is. he came in right away, and in Doc's eyes was ready. That shows his immense bball iq.

Bradley was developed. I bet if doc had thrown Avery right in the fire, he wouldn't be as good as he is now. He worked on that defense in the d-league, gave him a base to work with before the bright lights of the NBA.

Props to Doc

Offline Celtics18

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 01:15:24 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?

I mean look at AB and Sully right now, could he of brought AB and is bringing Sully along any better?

Rookies he didn't play:

Jjj
Etuan Moore
Semih Erden
Luke Harangody
Gabe pruit
Bill Walker

I can't even think of many others right now but I think Doc knows whatvhes doing. Whether he sees it in practice or sees it in garbage time, I think he's honest when he says he will play guys who are ready (and worthy)

Semih played 14.4 minutes per game in 37 games in his rookie season as a Celtic. 
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Online foulweatherfan

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 01:19:32 PM »
Rookies he didn't play:

Jjj
Etuan Moore
Semih Erden
Luke Harangody
Gabe pruit
Bill Walker

I can't even think of many others right now but I think Doc knows whatvhes doing. Whether he sees it in practice or sees it in garbage time, I think he's honest when he says he will play guys who are ready (and worthy)

JR Giddens even gets benched from the benched list  ;)

I agree though, it's always been overblown.  A lot of people here tend to overrate rookies, sometimes based on some good summer league or preseason games, and so they assume Doc must just be biased against them instead of actually having a good handle on what they can and can't do.

Oddly, the only benched rookie who didn't seem to have a bunch of posters angry at Doc for not playing him was Avery Bradley.  Shows what we all know I suppose.

Offline pearljammer10

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 01:22:13 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?

I mean look at AB and Sully right now, could he of brought AB and is bringing Sully along any better?

Rookies he didn't play:

Jjj
Etuan Moore
Semih Erden
Luke Harangody
Gabe pruit
Bill Walker

I can't even think of many others right now but I think Doc knows whatvhes doing. Whether he sees it in practice or sees it in garbage time, I think he's honest when he says he will play guys who are ready (and worthy)

Semih played 14.4 minutes per game in 37 games in his rookie season as a Celtic.

There is a reason Bradley and Sully are in heavy rotation on a contending team. They are good and ready for NBA action...

There is also a reason why none of the players on that list are making any type of positive impact on any NBA team. They aren't very good or NBA worthy.
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Offline CelticG1

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 01:29:28 PM »
Rookies he didn't play:

Jjj
Etuan Moore
Semih Erden
Luke Harangody
Gabe pruit
Bill Walker

I can't even think of many others right now but I think Doc knows whatvhes doing. Whether he sees it in practice or sees it in garbage time, I think he's honest when he says he will play guys who are ready (and worthy)

JR Giddens even gets benched from the benched list  ;)

I agree though, it's always been overblown.  A lot of people here tend to overrate rookies, sometimes based on some good summer league or preseason games, and so they assume Doc must just be biased against them instead of actually having a good handle on what they can and can't do.

Oddly, the only benched rookie who didn't seem to have a bunch of posters angry at Doc for not playing him was Avery Bradley.  Shows what we all know I suppose.

You know, I was trying to think of his name but kept thinking J.R. Bremer haha

Offline CelticG1

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 01:33:59 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?

I mean look at AB and Sully right now, could he of brought AB and is bringing Sully along any better?

Rookies he didn't play:

Jjj
Etuan Moore
Semih Erden
Luke Harangody
Gabe pruit
Bill Walker

I can't even think of many others right now but I think Doc knows whatvhes doing. Whether he sees it in practice or sees it in garbage time, I think he's honest when he says he will play guys who are ready (and worthy)

Semih played 14.4 minutes per game in 37 games in his rookie season as a Celtic.

Ha yeah exactly.

And that was with Zero healthy centers on the team

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 01:42:43 PM »
I always liked Erden .  He was always game, in there playing with basically one good arm .


Online MBunge

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 01:44:27 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?


The complaint really started when Rondo was a rookie and there was about a two month stretch when everyone else in the universe could see Rondo was the best player, yet Doc continued to start Sebastian Telfair, even though Boston was terrible and not making the playoffs no matter what.

I do think the evidence is that Doc doesn't particularly hate rookies more than any other NBA coach, but that Doc is one of those coaches who has "his guys".  Avery and Sully are a great example of that.  There were plenty of times early this season when Sully did not play very well and for much if not most of Avery's rookie season and the start of his second year, he played like hot garbage.  Yet Doc continued to give them opportunities that a guy like E'Twuan Moore never got.

Mike

Offline slamtheking

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 01:49:40 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?

I mean look at AB and Sully right now, could he of brought AB and is bringing Sully along any better?

Nope, don't feel stupid at all.  in fact, I still feel pretty righteous about it.  the thing is, it's not that "Doc doesn't play rookies".  Rondo, BBD, Semih and others in the pre-KG era saw the court in their rookie season.  The TRUE statement is "Doc doesn't play rookies when there's a vet alternative available".  That's a key difference.  have any doubts about that?  take the case of Sully this year.  Ask yourself, what vet can Doc be use behind Bass?   The answer is no one thus Sully has gotten court time.

Same situation applied to Rondo, BBD, Powe, Ryan Gomes, Big Al, Perk, TA, Semih.  All talented young players (not as good as they are now) that didn't see court time as rookies until the vet(s) on the roster were knocked out due to injuries. 

I present this argument every time a similar thread gets started and no one has presented a single example of a vet that Doc sat in favor of a younger player.  The closest was Rondo's rookie season when he started out behind 2nd year player telfair and Telfair played himself onto the bench.
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Offline ScottHow

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 01:52:31 PM »
It's the back up quarter back issue.

Fans always are ready to find the next best young thing and the grass is always greener.

Offline ejk3489

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 02:10:52 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?

I mean look at AB and Sully right now, could he of brought AB and is bringing Sully along any better?

Nope, don't feel stupid at all.  in fact, I still feel pretty righteous about it.  the thing is, it's not that "Doc doesn't play rookies".  Rondo, BBD, Semih and others in the pre-KG era saw the court in their rookie season.  The TRUE statement is "Doc doesn't play rookies when there's a vet alternative available".  That's a key difference.  have any doubts about that?  take the case of Sully this year.  Ask yourself, what vet can Doc be use behind Bass?   The answer is no one thus Sully has gotten court time.

Same situation applied to Rondo, BBD, Powe, Ryan Gomes, Big Al, Perk, TA, Semih.  All talented young players (not as good as they are now) that didn't see court time as rookies until the vet(s) on the roster were knocked out due to injuries. 

I present this argument every time a similar thread gets started and no one has presented a single example of a vet that Doc sat in favor of a younger player.  The closest was Rondo's rookie season when he started out behind 2nd year player telfair and Telfair played himself onto the bench.

I'd say Doc benching Ray Allen in favor of Avery Bradley in the starting line-up last April counts for something. Pretty ballsy coaching move, especially doing it against a respected vet like Ray.

Offline Kane3387

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 02:17:52 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?

I mean look at AB and Sully right now, could he of brought AB and is bringing Sully along any better?

Rookies he didn't play:

Jjj
Etuan Moore
Semih Erden
Luke Harangody
Gabe pruit
Bill Walker

I can't even think of many others right now but I think Doc knows whatvhes doing. Whether he sees it in practice or sees it in garbage time, I think he's honest when he says he will play guys who are ready (and worthy)

Semih played 14.4 minutes per game in 37 games in his rookie season as a Celtic.

He was pretty seasoned from playing professionally in Europe.

It is overblown. Most of our picks in the kg era just haven't been that good or just weren't ready to contribute coming out.

Avery was hurt and missed all training camp. He wasn't ready his rookie year as a result. Giddens, walker, Moore, Hudson, Johnson, etc. just weren't that good.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 02:27:26 PM by Kane3387 »

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Offline CelticG1

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 02:30:20 PM »
Do people kind of feel stupid saying this?

I mean look at AB and Sully right now, could he of brought AB and is bringing Sully along any better?

Nope, don't feel stupid at all.  in fact, I still feel pretty righteous about it.  the thing is, it's not that "Doc doesn't play rookies".  Rondo, BBD, Semih and others in the pre-KG era saw the court in their rookie season.  The TRUE statement is "Doc doesn't play rookies when there's a vet alternative available".  That's a key difference.  have any doubts about that?  take the case of Sully this year.  Ask yourself, what vet can Doc be use behind Bass?   The answer is no one thus Sully has gotten court time.

Same situation applied to Rondo, BBD, Powe, Ryan Gomes, Big Al, Perk, TA, Semih.  All talented young players (not as good as they are now) that didn't see court time as rookies until the vet(s) on the roster were knocked out due to injuries. 

I present this argument every time a similar thread gets started and no one has presented a single example of a vet that Doc sat in favor of a younger player.  The closest was Rondo's rookie season when he started out behind 2nd year player telfair and Telfair played himself onto the bench.

Its kind of a joke how you rationalize this.

Who are these miracle coaches that subscribe to your amazing philosophy.

Maybe just name a few. And try and compare the difference without burying out something and not actually proving it.

Jjj did a pretty good job of not getting PT even though no one else played his position on the team
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 02:35:54 PM by CelticG1 »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Re: Doc "not playing rookies"
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 02:31:58 PM »
The context being missed though is the roster we had during that times. For example, when Walker was here, he needed to play, there was no one else, yet Doc refused to play him. The result? He ran Paul Pierce to the ground, who then ran out of gas during the playoffs... very unavoidable. To add insult to injury, Doc constantly played Scal as a SF too much for anyone's tastes, and he was pretty awful in that position.

Moore should've played a bit more last year too. Dooling wasn't any good for us as a PG. and when Moore got the opportunities, he at least was a bit decent.

You put a vet, who are worse than Walker and Moore, and I'd guarantee you that Doc would've given them playing time.

That's just the way he's wired. Now, if a rookie who's actually good, like Sully and to a lesser degree Baby, he'll play them some. But sometimes he's too stubborn when roster situation dictates he should've used some rookies to fill some roles regardless of their competence.

 

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