Author Topic: Interesting quote i came across...  (Read 2355 times)

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Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 12:12:45 PM »

Offline Chris

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The thing is, Doc is a guy who adjusts to the players.  The problem (and benefit) with Doc is that he is excessively patient.  He has very little sense of urgency when it comes to working players in.  He believes in letting things slowly evolve, and having the players and the system meet in the middle.

That is what we are seeing right now.

I still believe Doc prefers mediocre vets to rookies. It didn't take most of us long to realize Sully needed big minutes( as long as he could stay out of foul trouble). Took Doc about 3 months. Which goes back to your slowly evolving point.
Which reminds me, anyone know why AB only got 18 mins the other night?

I think they are taking it slow with him.  He looked tired later in the game, with his shot, which isn't surprising, and they are still trying not to put too much stress on his shoulders too quickly.  I think you will see a slow buildup of his minutes over the next month or so.

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 12:12:52 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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These threads criticizing Doc seem too much like people won't know what they have until it's gone. I mean he is universally considered a top coach with popovich.

The fact that his players would take a bullet for him is good enough for me. Phil Jackson is considered one of the greatest coaches ever and he got embarrassed by Doc in 2008.

Doc was masterful in 2010. If not for injuries he probably has three rings.

He was great for the most part in Orlando where they had no one outside of T-Mac because all their money was invested in Grant Hill.

He's a fantastic coach and a true leader of men, plain and simple.
I disagree

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 12:14:45 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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These threads criticizing Doc seem too much like people won't know what they have until it's gone. I mean he is universally considered a top coach with popovich.

The fact that his players would take a bullet for him is good enough for me. Phil Jackson is considered one of the greatest coaches ever and he got embarrassed by Doc in 2008.

Doc was masterful in 2010. If not for injuries he probably has three rings.

He was great for the most part in Orlando where they had no one outside of T-Mac because all their money was invested in Grant Hill.

He's a fantastic coach and a true leader of men, plain and simple.
I disagree
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Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 12:14:59 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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These threads criticizing Doc seem too much like people won't know what they have until it's gone. I mean he is universally considered a top coach with popovich.

The fact that his players would take a bullet for him is good enough for me. Phil Jackson is considered one of the greatest coaches ever and he got embarrassed by Doc in 2008.

Doc was masterful in 2010. If not for injuries he probably has three rings.

He was great for the most part in Orlando where they had no one outside of T-Mac because all their money was invested in Grant Hill.

He's a fantastic coach and a true leader of men, plain and simple.
I disagree

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Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 12:15:07 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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I think they are taking it slow with him.  He looked tired later in the game, with his shot, which isn't surprising, and they are still trying not to put too much stress on his shoulders too quickly.  I think you will see a slow buildup of his minutes over the next month or so.
This. AB was front-rimming everything yesterday.

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 12:17:06 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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I think they are taking it slow with him.  He looked tired later in the game, with his shot, which isn't surprising, and they are still trying not to put too much stress on his shoulders too quickly.  I think you will see a slow buildup of his minutes over the next month or so.
This. AB was front-rimming everything yesterday.
Fair enough, every time AB shoots i cringe. Still, that defense is filthy.

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 12:18:28 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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The thing is, Doc is a guy who adjusts to the players.  The problem (and benefit) with Doc is that he is excessively patient.  He has very little sense of urgency when it comes to working players in.  He believes in letting things slowly evolve, and having the players and the system meet in the middle.

That is what we are seeing right now.

I still believe Doc prefers mediocre vets to rookies. It didn't take most of us long to realize Sully needed big minutes( as long as he could stay out of foul trouble). Took Doc about 3 months. Which goes back to your slowly evolving point.
Which reminds me, anyone know why AB only got 18 mins the other night?

Because Jet and Lee were playing really well.  If he'd gotten twenty-five minutes, you'd be complaining about one of those guys' minutes.
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Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 12:18:43 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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The thing is, Doc is a guy who adjusts to the players.  The problem (and benefit) with Doc is that he is excessively patient.  He has very little sense of urgency when it comes to working players in.  He believes in letting things slowly evolve, and having the players and the system meet in the middle.

That is what we are seeing right now.

Nailed it here.

Doc is the ultimate player coach.  He is almost excessively patient with players.  It's why they love him but it can be frustrating at times.

I think they are taking it slow with him.  He looked tired later in the game, with his shot, which isn't surprising, and they are still trying not to put too much stress on his shoulders too quickly.  I think you will see a slow buildup of his minutes over the next month or so.
This. AB was front-rimming everything yesterday.
Fair enough, every time AB shoots i cringe. Still, that defense is filthy.

It'll get there.  Started slow last year too but his shooting numbers by the end of the season were good.


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Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 12:19:51 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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Fair enough, every time AB shoots i cringe. Still, that defense is filthy.
I think that if the game was closer, and we needed defensive stops, AB would go back out there. But playing tired is how injuries happen, and we didn't need the badger after recovering from that silly 17-2 run.

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 12:38:36 PM »

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As much as we don't like to admit it, Phil Jackson is probably the first person that comes to mind when most basketball fans think great coach.

Did he ever adjust his system?  He ran the triangle no matter what, with both the Lakers and Bulls, right?

Phil Jackson changed the Triangle offense to accommodate Shaquille O'Neal despite strong disagreement from Tex Winters.

In the Triangle, the center is often asked to come up to the elbow and act as a passer + screener / facilitator for the offense. As Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright did in Chicago and Pau Gasol did in LA years later. Phil Jackson removed many of those sequences from the Lakers offense and instead allowed Shaq to remain rooted to the low post to better take advantage of Shaq's specific strengths and weaknesses.

Tex Winters was very unhappy with this. Didn't want the integrity of the offense altered to suit a single player no matter who that player was. Phil Jackson did it anyway and it helped lead the Lakers to 3 Championships.

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 12:47:07 PM »

Offline Chris

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I think they are taking it slow with him.  He looked tired later in the game, with his shot, which isn't surprising, and they are still trying not to put too much stress on his shoulders too quickly.  I think you will see a slow buildup of his minutes over the next month or so.
This. AB was front-rimming everything yesterday.
Fair enough, every time AB shoots i cringe. Still, that defense is filthy.

Right, but it was more about preservation of a guy returning from injury and still getting in game shape, than punishing him for not being able to shoot.

The shooting was just a signal that he needed to rest a bit, as he has pushed pretty hard after being out for so long.  Its just taking the longview, and trying to avoid burning him out, or getting him hurt again.

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2013, 12:50:13 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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The thing is, Doc is a guy who adjusts to the players.  The problem (and benefit) with Doc is that he is excessively patient.  He has very little sense of urgency when it comes to working players in.  He believes in letting things slowly evolve, and having the players and the system meet in the middle.

That is what we are seeing right now.

This was my exact thought watching the Suns game last night. I was asking myself how can Doc be so patient? And how can he not change plays and the system to fit players and get more immediate results than what he is getting. But hey, if it works for us, then it is what it is.
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Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2013, 01:07:23 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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The only real complaint I've had with Doc over the years is I always thought our offense was too complicated. Just keep it simple and go to what works, instead of endless plays with screens and picks.

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2013, 01:13:07 PM »

Online KGs Knee

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As much as we don't like to admit it, Phil Jackson is probably the first person that comes to mind when most basketball fans think great coach.

Did he ever adjust his system?  He ran the triangle no matter what, with both the Lakers and Bulls, right?

Phil Jackson changed the Triangle offense to accommodate Shaquille O'Neal despite strong disagreement from Tex Winters.

In the Triangle, the center is often asked to come up to the elbow and act as a passer + screener / facilitator for the offense. As Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright did in Chicago and Pau Gasol did in LA years later. Phil Jackson removed many of those sequences from the Lakers offense and instead allowed Shaq to remain rooted to the low post to better take advantage of Shaq's specific strengths and weaknesses.

Tex Winters was very unhappy with this. Didn't want the integrity of the offense altered to suit a single player no matter who that player was. Phil Jackson did it anyway and it helped lead the Lakers to 3 Championships.

Deciding to take advantage of Shaq's strengths was no great feat.  Any amatuer could figure that out (except, apparently Tex Winter).

Blending player's personalities and egos was always Jacksons' biggest strength.  Doc is very similar in this regard.

I doubt Doc wouldn't have just as many titles as Phil if he had MJ, Pippen, Shaq & Kobe.

Re: Interesting quote i came across...
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2013, 04:40:20 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Fair enough, every time AB shoots i cringe. Still, that defense is filthy.
Not sure why you would cringe. His shooting form is pretty sweet. I watch Shawn Marion, Kevin Martin and Joakim Noah take shots and I cringe. I watch Shaq and DH12 and some others take free throws, and I cringe. But Bradley, never. I just wait for them to drop because the form looks extremely good.

He is definitely rusty and not in the type of NBA shape he would like to be at his peak, so his shot is off. But if anything, last year proved when he is comfortable and not injured, his shot and shot efficiency is way above average.

 

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