Author Topic: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue  (Read 9114 times)

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2013, 11:31:12 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Are people seriously arguing "Rondo's a little guy, so it's okay if he coasts"?

  He never coasts to the extent that people are claiming, but he gets to the rim more often and rebounds more in the playoffs. I don't mind him doing less of that during the season as (since he actually is a little guy) the wear and tear that comes with his playoff style of play will make him more injury prone. Playoffs are relatively short and he's been there for 5 years and this was the first year he made it through the playoffs without his play being hampered by injuries he picked up during the playoffs.


 Also note that in 2010 we went all the way to the finals and he spent much of the offseason with team USA and the next year was by far the least healthy of his career. I don't think it was a coincidence.

There are literally dozens of point guards who are about Rondo's size, many of whom get to the line much more than Rondo.  I just don't buy it as a valid reason whatsoever.


  How many of them get 7 rebounds a game? How many of them take the 7-8 shots a game at the rim that Rondo does? And what does "I just don't buy it as a valid reason whatsoever" signify? That it's coincidental that he gets more banged up when he plays with abandon? That he doesn't really pick up those knocks in the playoffs?

Lots of point guards get to the paint and absorb contact.  Rondo ranks 2nd among PGs in rebounds, but only 29th in free throw attempts.  (One of the fastest and most skilled PGs in the league ranks near the bottom of all starters in FTAs.  That just shouldn't happen, regardless of excuse.)

A guy like Russell Westbrook grabs more boards than Rondo, and has gotten to the line over three times more than he has.  He's got two inches and 15 pounds on Rondo. 

A guy like Brandon Jennings is actually smaller than Rondo, and has gotten to the line twice as much.  Isaiah Thomas is 5'9", and he gets to the line more than Rondo; Nate Robinson gets there almost as much.

The excuse "small guys can't attack the hoop or they will get injured" doesn't make any sense, because lots of small guys are driving the lane and are doing it just fine.

As an aside, where are you getting that Rondo takes 7 or 8 shot attempts at the rim per game?  He's got 121 FGAs at the rim this season, which is about 4 per game.  Add in his FTAs, and let's say he's attempting those shots about 5 times per game.  Westbrook is getting around 6 shots at the rim, and is averaging 6 FTAs.

  He gets 7-8 shot attempts a game (not counting free throws) in the playoffs (probably closer to 8 overall) over the last 4 years and he's probably averaged about 7 boards a game over that time.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 12:06:58 PM by BballTim »

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2013, 12:53:24 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Rondo ranks 27th among PGs who played 10 games and 15+ minutes per game in FTA/FGA ratio. Slightly below average for a PG overall at .230 (average is .237)

His And1 percentage is also pretty low. (actually tied with CP3 though, thought his would have been higher)

Rondo doesn't try to get to the line as much as other PGs, his poor free throw shooting is the reason in my opinion. (only two PGs who meet the criteria above shoot worse from the line than Rondo)

He's not terrible at drawing FTAs, but with his physical profile its something I feel he could do more.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2013, 12:58:23 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Rondo ranks 27th among PGs who played 10 games and 15+ minutes per game in FTA/FGA ratio. Slightly below average for a PG overall at .230 (average is .237)

His And1 percentage is also pretty low. (actually tied with CP3 though, thought his would have been higher)

Rondo doesn't try to get to the line as much as other PGs, his poor free throw shooting is the reason in my opinion. (only two PGs who meet the criteria above shoot worse from the line than Rondo)

He's not terrible at drawing FTAs, but with his physical profile its something I feel he could do more.

Goes back to my "avoiding potential injuries" theory.  The more contact Rondo takes, the more chance there is for him to sustain injury.  He isn't really built well for taking constant hits from bigs.

The FTs probably play a role as well, though.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2013, 01:09:55 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Oh and despite his poor free throw shooting everytime Rondo gets to the line he's helping our offense. Even at mid 60s a possession where he's on the line is a good one.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2013, 02:02:28 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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Oh and despite his poor free throw shooting everytime Rondo gets to the line he's helping our offense. Even at mid 60s a possession where he's on the line is a good one.

Oh what I'd give for Rondo to shoot in the low 70s from the line......the turrrrible things I would do, lol

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2013, 02:03:54 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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What player doesn't coast? Normally you could say Lebron but honestly the heat are coasting this year. Kobe Bryant? eh he coasts on defense...westbrook and Durant? Maybe. Paul pierce is the master of coasting, he's quite good at it actually..where are those threads?

A bigger argument could be made for Kgs "coasting" do people remember what he was like when he first showed up? Intense every night, extreme intensity. ya know when we were a dominant regular season team? He doesn't play like that every night anymore and it's no coincidence we aren't as dominant...he knows and has learned it's about the playoffs
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 02:09:25 PM by scaryjerry »

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2013, 02:05:45 PM »

Offline badshar

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[Edited.  Comments like this are against our posting rules. -RH]

You gonna say Rondo's inconsistent effort is our biggest issue?

What about Green's inconsistency?
What about Terry's inconsistency?
What about Bass' inconsistency?
What about Pierce's inconsistency?

Its easy to just put the blame on one player, the fact of the matter is that there are multiple people who are inconsistent, except Rondo ends up being the scapegoat all the time.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 02:14:03 PM by Roy H. »

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2013, 02:09:01 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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No offense, but this thread is pretty stupid.

You gonna say Rondo's inconsistent effort is our biggest issue?

What about Green's inconsistency?
What about Terry's inconsistency?
What about Bass' inconsistency?
What about Pierce's inconsistency?

Its easy to just put the blame on one player, the fact of the matter is that there are multiple people who are inconsistent, except Rondo ends up being the scapegoat all the time.

Bingo.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2013, 02:12:42 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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No offense, but this thread is pretty stupid.

You gonna say Rondo's inconsistent effort is our biggest issue?

What about Green's inconsistency?
What about Terry's inconsistency?
What about Bass' inconsistency?
What about Pierce's inconsistency?

Its easy to just put the blame on one player, the fact of the matter is that there are multiple people who are inconsistent, except Rondo ends up being the scapegoat all the time.

Rondo def takes the most crap. I've never seen a player bring out the two extremes in fans.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2013, 02:38:15 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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[Edited.  Comments like this are against our posting rules. -RH]

You gonna say Rondo's inconsistent effort is our biggest issue?

What about Green's inconsistency?
What about Terry's inconsistency?
What about Bass' inconsistency?
What about Pierce's inconsistency?

Its easy to just put the blame on one player, the fact of the matter is that there are multiple people who are inconsistent, except Rondo ends up being the scapegoat all the time.

Did you really not bother to read anything in this thread?

Bass, Green and Terry do not even approach Rondos ability level and importance on this team and Pierce is clearly also second to Rondo in that regard.  Rondo's up and downs effect this team far more than any of those players do.

Next time you try to be a contrarian, at least know what you're trying to contradict.


The defense has gotten better since Bradley got back because of two reasons.
1.  Effort has improved
2.  Bradleys perimeter d
3.  Bradleys full court pressure

Rondo is more than capable of playing hard.
Rondo is more than capable of keeping guys in front of him

People rave about Bradleys effect on the club and try to ignore the hypocrisy of raving about Rondo at the same time.  Rondo is a first team all NBA defensive player.  He is more than capable of playing at the level Bradley does on defense.  He simply chooses not to put that effort into it every game.   Now Bradley's man defense is better than Rondos (and anyone else in the NBA), but Rondo letting guys blow past him was a MASSIVE issue with our defense, I would even say the BIGGEST issue with our team this season.  It forced guys to rotate and gave easy layups.

Bradley returns, and all of a sudden we aren't giving 50 free layups a game thanks to Rondo and we suddenly have a top 3 defense before Bradley even gets into game shape.  It's effort.  Bradley keeps guys in front of him.  Rondo lets guys run past him so he doesn't have to fight through screens and can just gamble for a stat padding steal.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2013, 02:49:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

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[Edited.  Comments like this are against our posting rules. -RH]

You gonna say Rondo's inconsistent effort is our biggest issue?

What about Green's inconsistency?
What about Terry's inconsistency?
What about Bass' inconsistency?
What about Pierce's inconsistency?

Its easy to just put the blame on one player, the fact of the matter is that there are multiple people who are inconsistent, except Rondo ends up being the scapegoat all the time.
Green, Terry, and Bass just aren't that good nor capable of playing at a much higher or consistent level.  Just the game they play.  Pierce is old.  Age takes a players consistency.  He was much more consistent when he was closer to Rondo's age. 
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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2013, 02:52:54 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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 [/quote] Pierce is old.  Age takes a players consistency.  He was much more consistent when he was closer to Rondo's age.
[/quote]

that's a stretch

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2013, 02:59:26 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Rondo is a lazy player, giving effort when he deems necessary.. with NBA star skills.... and no one other than the fans is willing to call him out on it.

Just because Doc lets him play with half his brain functioning doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

So he can just vaction till playoff time ...he isn't Lebron .


Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2013, 06:11:15 PM »

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1. And what's the problem with that? If Rondo is on the break, he is usually the guy closest to our basket to begin with, and he's the fastest on our team. I don't see a problem with that. I see no problem with him pushing the ball and not finding anything, at worst, we get an early start to our offense. This excuse doesn't fly. Also, more often than not, he has an open man waiting at the 3-point land, he very rarely gives that pass, holds the ball waiting to see if someone catches up, if no one arrives he then brings the ball back when we had a wide-open shot available all along. Sometimes it works because it leads to an easy basket, but we lose a lot of good opportunities also.
The problem is when Rondo breaks up the court on a fast break, he usually doesn't have anyone else running with him and it takes quite some time for others like KG and Pierce to get upcourt. By the time the offense is getting set to go, more time has run off as compared to if Rondo had just walked it up in the first place. Why? because some of the older players sit back and watch Rondo on the break and only if he can't complete it do they then start running upcourt. What appears to be Rondo passivity and just dribbling the ball is actually a lack of effort on the part of his team mates.


2. You do realize that Rondo is calling the plays right? Often redirecting traffic, which is fine... until you realize he's spent 5 seconds doing so, then add the 8 seconds he spends walking the ball up the floor which leads to poor possessions.
I realize Rondo calls the plays but if the other players aren't moving around and performing the play, how is that Rondo's fault? Let's say he calls for a 1-3 screen and roll. Pierce must run through a screen, then pick Rondo's man at the top of the key, then roll towards the three point line and get a quick pass from Rondo to create a mismatch on Rondo's man. Meanwhile to take advantage of the mismatch the shooting guard has to stay in the far side corner and the PF and C have to them move out of the key or towards Pierce's man to help create space for Pierce to drive or cause anther switch mismatch only with Rondo's original man attempting to guard a C or PF down low.

Even in this, the play with the absolute least amount of off the ball movement, there's still lots of movement. Countless times, the C's offense stagnates because other players than the ball handler(the ball handler could be Rondo, Terry, Pierce or in years past, Allen) and it appears the ball handler is just over dribbling when the fact is lack of player movement is really the cause of the problem, not the ball handler.
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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2013, 06:15:10 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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1. And what's the problem with that? If Rondo is on the break, he is usually the guy closest to our basket to begin with, and he's the fastest on our team. I don't see a problem with that. I see no problem with him pushing the ball and not finding anything, at worst, we get an early start to our offense. This excuse doesn't fly. Also, more often than not, he has an open man waiting at the 3-point land, he very rarely gives that pass, holds the ball waiting to see if someone catches up, if no one arrives he then brings the ball back when we had a wide-open shot available all along. Sometimes it works because it leads to an easy basket, but we lose a lot of good opportunities also.
The problem is when Rondo breaks up the court on a fast break, he usually doesn't have anyone else running with him and it takes quite some time for others like KG and Pierce to get upcourt. By the time the offense is getting set to go, more time has run off as compared to if Rondo had just walked it up in the first place. Why? because some of the older players sit back and watch Rondo on the break and only if he can't complete it do they then start running upcourt. What appears to be Rondo passivity and just dribbling the ball is actually a lack of effort on the part of his team mates.


2. You do realize that Rondo is calling the plays right? Often redirecting traffic, which is fine... until you realize he's spent 5 seconds doing so, then add the 8 seconds he spends walking the ball up the floor which leads to poor possessions.
I realize Rondo calls the plays but if the other players aren't moving around and performing the play, how is that Rondo's fault? Let's say he calls for a 1-3 screen and roll. Pierce must run through a screen, then pick Rondo's man at the top of the key, then roll towards the three point line and get a quick pass from Rondo to create a mismatch on Rondo's man. Meanwhile to take advantage of the mismatch the shooting guard has to stay in the far side corner and the PF and C have to them move out of the key or towards Pierce's man to help create space for Pierce to drive or cause anther switch mismatch only with Rondo's original man attempting to guard a C or PF down low.

Even in this, the play with the absolute least amount of off the ball movement, there's still lots of movement. Countless times, the C's offense stagnates because other players than the ball handler(the ball handler could be Rondo, Terry, Pierce or in years past, Allen) and it appears the ball handler is just over dribbling when the fact is lack of player movement is really the cause of the problem, not the ball handler.

I def agree with this. Sometimes it looks like players are going through the playbook in their head to remember the play, causing the delay. I think if we made our offense a little less complicated it'd solve some of this.

 

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