Author Topic: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue  (Read 8434 times)

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Offline KGs Knee

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2013, 06:00:10 PM »
My question to those who are unhappy with Rondo, and more specifically his inconsistent level of play is quite simple.

Do you realize if Rondo played the way many want, on a night-in-night-out basis, he would likely miss numerous games due to injury?

I would like him to be able to better adapt his style of play to more of a "just anther cog in the wheel" style when he is not going full-out, but have little problem with him coasting at times.  Rondo is a slightly built guy, we don't need him being a hero every night.  Unless we want a DRose situation.
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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2013, 06:05:25 PM »
My question to those who are unhappy with Rondo, and more specifically his inconsistent level of play is quite simple.

Do you realize if Rondo played the way many want, on a night-in-night-out basis, he would likely miss numerous games due to injury?

I would like him to be able to better adapt his style of play to more of a "just anther cog in the wheel" style when he is not going full-out, but have little problem with him coasting at times.  Rondo is a slightly built guy, we don't need him being a hero every night.  Unless we want a DRose situation.

I agree. He isn't a very thick guy and I don't think he could be playoff Rondo for a whole season.

Offline Josh88

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2013, 06:10:38 PM »
Another one of these threads, really? The endless Rondo bashing around here has gotten so old I barely even bother reading these forums anymore. It's a tired, pointless discussion. Find something new to talk about.

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2013, 06:14:29 PM »
I completely agree. I think Rondo is a great player and I can't take anything away from his records and postseason performances. But I don't know how anyone can say he approaches every game with the same intensity and focus... it just isn't true.

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2013, 06:20:28 PM »
Another one of these threads, really? The endless Rondo bashing around here has gotten so old I barely even bother reading these forums anymore. It's a tired, pointless discussion. Find something new to talk about.

The OP is 100% right.  And those that defend Rondo's defensive laziness are just blind.  Saying that he's pacing himself for an 82-game season, and that he might get hurt if he tried hard all the time?  Laughable.

The guy is in his physical prime.  He's playing, what 38 minutes a game (a guess)?  Guys his age play HOURS of basketball every day.  38 minutes isn't that big a deal.

I would even say that Rondo could pace himself better and it wouldn't upset me, as long as he continued to play SMART defense.

When Rondo just turns his back on defense, doesn't box out, and just lazily walks around it's just another skilled offensive guy getting by on that reputation and not playing a true, complete game on both ends of the court.

Offline scaryjerry

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #50 on: January 10, 2013, 06:28:02 PM »
I completely agree. I think Rondo is a great player and I can't take anything away from his records and postseason performances. But I don't know how anyone can say he approaches every game with the same intensity and focus... it just isn't true.


only a handful of  guys in the league do? Even kg hasn't brought his trademark intensity and focus to every game this season...sorry

Offline Rtpas11

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #51 on: January 10, 2013, 06:52:33 PM »
I think this thread is very confusing to a lot of you. The Op is simply stating Rondo is too inconsistent how he plays the game, not inconsistent on how he put up numbers. Stats are so misleading. I have said that many times. We think just because Rondo Puts up 16-15-20 he had a good game. Statistcally yes he did, but what happened during the time achieving such #'s really is the true matter.

You could make the perfect argument for Kobe this year. He's putting up great statistcal #'s but yet his team still struggles to play with consistency & chemistry to win games.

The biggest difference I see with Rondo playing opposed to not playing is "SPEED". The Celtics offensively & defensively become suddenly much faster. Reason for this is, there is no designated distributor on the floor to look for after rebounding or broken plays. They get into sets much quicker, to be honest I think they run only 3 plays when Rondo is not playing. To me that is keeping the game simple & it makes the players comfortable. When Rondo is playing to many plays are ran, & most of the players look confused, so then it take too much time to execute, resulting in a bad possession. This happens constantly, way too often.

In the Knicks game & even previous Rondoless games we have seen how different, comfortable & more to life the complimentary players become. Rondo is great, but we don't need his services if he's not going to keep it simple.
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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #52 on: January 10, 2013, 07:27:00 PM »
I think this thread is very confusing to a lot of you. The Op is simply stating Rondo is too inconsistent how he plays the game, not inconsistent on how he put up numbers. Stats are so misleading. I have said that many times. We think just because Rondo Puts up 16-15-20 he had a good game. Statistcally yes he did, but what happened during the time achieving such #'s really is the true matter.

You could make the perfect argument for Kobe this year. He's putting up great statistcal #'s but yet his team still struggles to play with consistency & chemistry to win games.

The biggest difference I see with Rondo playing opposed to not playing is "SPEED". The Celtics offensively & defensively become suddenly much faster. Reason for this is, there is no designated distributor on the floor to look for after rebounding or broken plays. They get into sets much quicker, to be honest I think they run only 3 plays when Rondo is not playing. To me that is keeping the game simple & it makes the players comfortable. When Rondo is playing to many plays are ran, & most of the players look confused, so then it take too much time to execute, resulting in a bad possession. This happens constantly, way too often.

In the Knicks game & even previous Rondoless games we have seen how different, comfortable & more to life the complimentary players become. Rondo is great, but we don't need his services if he's not going to keep it simple.

   Not surprisingly, the team plays at a faster pace when Rondo's in the game than when he's on the bench. The thread's not that confusing. People read/hear things about Rondo, watch the game looking for those things, see them happen at times and assume that they're true. Unfortunately, the numbers don't necessarily bear out the claims.

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #53 on: January 10, 2013, 08:08:49 PM »
I think this thread is very confusing to a lot of you. The Op is simply stating Rondo is too inconsistent how he plays the game, not inconsistent on how he put up numbers. Stats are so misleading. I have said that many times. We think just because Rondo Puts up 16-15-20 he had a good game. Statistcally yes he did, but what happened during the time achieving such #'s really is the true matter.

You could make the perfect argument for Kobe this year. He's putting up great statistcal #'s but yet his team still struggles to play with consistency & chemistry to win games.

The biggest difference I see with Rondo playing opposed to not playing is "SPEED". The Celtics offensively & defensively become suddenly much faster. Reason for this is, there is no designated distributor on the floor to look for after rebounding or broken plays. They get into sets much quicker, to be honest I think they run only 3 plays when Rondo is not playing. To me that is keeping the game simple & it makes the players comfortable. When Rondo is playing to many plays are ran, & most of the players look confused, so then it take too much time to execute, resulting in a bad possession. This happens constantly, way too often.

In the Knicks game & even previous Rondoless games we have seen how different, comfortable & more to life the complimentary players become. Rondo is great, but we don't need his services if he's not going to keep it simple.

   Not surprisingly, the team plays at a faster pace when Rondo's in the game than when he's on the bench. The thread's not that confusing. People read/hear things about Rondo, watch the game looking for those things, see them happen at times and assume that they're true. Unfortunately, the numbers don't necessarily bear out the claims.

I absolutely disagree with the OP that our "biggest issue" has anything to do with Rondo.

However, our team looks night and day different when Rondo is playing aggressively versus when he's not.  It's very frustrating to watch as a fan, because sometimes Rondo essentially holds the ball around the perimeter for games at a time.  That seems to bog down our offense, as opposed to when Rondo is actively attacking and making things happen.  It's been an issue for years.

Of course, all players go through games where they're less aggressive, but it's a lot more noticeable with Rondo, who (1) has the capability to attack, and (2) is the most important part of our offense.

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Offline BballTim

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2013, 10:12:07 PM »
I think this thread is very confusing to a lot of you. The Op is simply stating Rondo is too inconsistent how he plays the game, not inconsistent on how he put up numbers. Stats are so misleading. I have said that many times. We think just because Rondo Puts up 16-15-20 he had a good game. Statistcally yes he did, but what happened during the time achieving such #'s really is the true matter.

You could make the perfect argument for Kobe this year. He's putting up great statistcal #'s but yet his team still struggles to play with consistency & chemistry to win games.

The biggest difference I see with Rondo playing opposed to not playing is "SPEED". The Celtics offensively & defensively become suddenly much faster. Reason for this is, there is no designated distributor on the floor to look for after rebounding or broken plays. They get into sets much quicker, to be honest I think they run only 3 plays when Rondo is not playing. To me that is keeping the game simple & it makes the players comfortable. When Rondo is playing to many plays are ran, & most of the players look confused, so then it take too much time to execute, resulting in a bad possession. This happens constantly, way too often.

In the Knicks game & even previous Rondoless games we have seen how different, comfortable & more to life the complimentary players become. Rondo is great, but we don't need his services if he's not going to keep it simple.

   Not surprisingly, the team plays at a faster pace when Rondo's in the game than when he's on the bench. The thread's not that confusing. People read/hear things about Rondo, watch the game looking for those things, see them happen at times and assume that they're true. Unfortunately, the numbers don't necessarily bear out the claims.

I absolutely disagree with the OP that our "biggest issue" has anything to do with Rondo.

However, our team looks night and day different when Rondo is playing aggressively versus when he's not.  It's very frustrating to watch as a fan, because sometimes Rondo essentially holds the ball around the perimeter for games at a time.  That seems to bog down our offense, as opposed to when Rondo is actively attacking and making things happen.  It's been an issue for years.

Of course, all players go through games where they're less aggressive, but it's a lot more noticeable with Rondo, who (1) has the capability to attack, and (2) is the most important part of our offense.

  While it's true that all players (including Rondo) and all teams go through times when they're less aggressive, I still say that when some of the other players (or the team as a whole) are going through less aggressive stretches it's generally classified as Rondo not being aggressive.

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2013, 02:10:01 AM »
8 and 8 from Rondo was still an ESPN highlight.

just saying...
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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2013, 07:57:38 AM »
I think this thread is very confusing to a lot of you. The Op is simply stating Rondo is too inconsistent how he plays the game, not inconsistent on how he put up numbers. Stats are so misleading. I have said that many times. We think just because Rondo Puts up 16-15-20 he had a good game. Statistcally yes he did, but what happened during the time achieving such #'s really is the true matter.

You could make the perfect argument for Kobe this year. He's putting up great statistcal #'s but yet his team still struggles to play with consistency & chemistry to win games.

The biggest difference I see with Rondo playing opposed to not playing is "SPEED". The Celtics offensively & defensively become suddenly much faster. Reason for this is, there is no designated distributor on the floor to look for after rebounding or broken plays. They get into sets much quicker, to be honest I think they run only 3 plays when Rondo is not playing. To me that is keeping the game simple & it makes the players comfortable. When Rondo is playing to many plays are ran, & most of the players look confused, so then it take too much time to execute, resulting in a bad possession. This happens constantly, way too often.

In the Knicks game & even previous Rondoless games we have seen how different, comfortable & more to life the complimentary players become. Rondo is great, but we don't need his services if he's not going to keep it simple.

   Not surprisingly, the team plays at a faster pace when Rondo's in the game than when he's on the bench. The thread's not that confusing. People read/hear things about Rondo, watch the game looking for those things, see them happen at times and assume that they're true. Unfortunately, the numbers don't necessarily bear out the claims.

I absolutely disagree with the OP that our "biggest issue" has anything to do with Rondo.

However, our team looks night and day different when Rondo is playing aggressively versus when he's not.  It's very frustrating to watch as a fan, because sometimes Rondo essentially holds the ball around the perimeter for games at a time.  That seems to bog down our offense, as opposed to when Rondo is actively attacking and making things happen.  It's been an issue for years.

Of course, all players go through games where they're less aggressive, but it's a lot more noticeable with Rondo, who (1) has the capability to attack, and (2) is the most important part of our offense.

  While it's true that all players (including Rondo) and all teams go through times when they're less aggressive, I still say that when some of the other players (or the team as a whole) are going through less aggressive stretches it's generally classified as Rondo not being aggressive.
Offensively, I agree with this 100%. I can't even count high enough to count the amount of trips down the floor that I have seen:

1.) Rondo run a one man break and have to pull up because of the defense and wait for everyone to get up the floor to run a set play. This usually has Rondo bringing the ball back out and dribbling waiting for an open man to pass to. But this is perceived as Rondo passivity.

2.) Rondo handling the ball at the top of the key waiting to pass the ball with absolutely zero off the ball movement by anyone else on the court in green. If the other players aren't going to move how is that Rondo's fault for dribbling at the top of the key?

3. Rondo handling the ball at the top of the key waiting to pass the ball to only one man running through various screens attempting to get himself open and if he doesn't, just continuing to run through more screens until he is open or Rondo has to junk the play and do something.

Offensively, Rondo gets way to much blame for the whole team's lack of energy or poor play development simply because he has the ball in his hands. If Pierce brought the ball up, initiated the offense, had no one moving around looking to get open and then after 15 seconds Pierce went iso, this blog would be going crazy complaining about Pierce's ball hogging and love of an iso play instead of the fact his team mates aren't creating anything by moving off the ball.

Defensively, and remember I love Rondo and am probably one of his biggest fans here, but he does get very passive sometimes and gambles way too much. I give him a pass because he expends so much energy rebounding defensively, running the ball up the court and running the offense. So if he slacks off at times defensively, during the regular season, I don't care.
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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2013, 09:04:30 AM »
I want to make a point about Rondo's apparent lack of defensive effort;  I think a big thing is that his on ball defense is being compared to Avery Bradley's.  I have to say that I literally don't think there's another point guard in the league who pressures the ball handler and fights through screens like Avery Bradley.  There certainly aren't any other elite level offensive point guards who do--not Chris Paul, not Russell Westbrook, not Tony Parker, not Derrick Rose, not Kyrie Irving, not Steph Curry . . .

I submit that not only is Rondo actually a superior on ball defender to those other guys listed, but he's also more disruptive off the ball than any of those players (I might put Paul and Westbrook close to in Rondo's class). 

Back to Bradley, it's what is so impressive about his D.  That kind of ball pressure is simply not something we are used to seeing in an NBA basketball game.  When he is playing next to Rondo, the automatic reaction is; "look how lazy Rondo is.  He doesn't play defense like Bradley."  But, nobody else in the league plays defense like Bradley.

Rondo's a great defender, and having Avery back makes him even better.  It allows him to do more of the things defensively that he excels at like jumping passing lanes and helping and trapping without having to be the guy who is guarding the ball and fighting off bone crushing screens all game.
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Online Smokeeye123

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2013, 09:17:53 AM »
Yes, but Pierce, Green, Bass, and Lee can all lack effort at times and it's fine -___-

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2013, 09:39:42 AM »
I think this thread is very confusing to a lot of you. The Op is simply stating Rondo is too inconsistent how he plays the game, not inconsistent on how he put up numbers. Stats are so misleading. I have said that many times. We think just because Rondo Puts up 16-15-20 he had a good game. Statistcally yes he did, but what happened during the time achieving such #'s really is the true matter.

You could make the perfect argument for Kobe this year. He's putting up great statistcal #'s but yet his team still struggles to play with consistency & chemistry to win games.

The biggest difference I see with Rondo playing opposed to not playing is "SPEED". The Celtics offensively & defensively become suddenly much faster. Reason for this is, there is no designated distributor on the floor to look for after rebounding or broken plays. They get into sets much quicker, to be honest I think they run only 3 plays when Rondo is not playing. To me that is keeping the game simple & it makes the players comfortable. When Rondo is playing to many plays are ran, & most of the players look confused, so then it take too much time to execute, resulting in a bad possession. This happens constantly, way too often.

In the Knicks game & even previous Rondoless games we have seen how different, comfortable & more to life the complimentary players become. Rondo is great, but we don't need his services if he's not going to keep it simple.

   Not surprisingly, the team plays at a faster pace when Rondo's in the game than when he's on the bench. The thread's not that confusing. People read/hear things about Rondo, watch the game looking for those things, see them happen at times and assume that they're true. Unfortunately, the numbers don't necessarily bear out the claims.

I absolutely disagree with the OP that our "biggest issue" has anything to do with Rondo.

However, our team looks night and day different when Rondo is playing aggressively versus when he's not.  It's very frustrating to watch as a fan, because sometimes Rondo essentially holds the ball around the perimeter for games at a time.  That seems to bog down our offense, as opposed to when Rondo is actively attacking and making things happen.  It's been an issue for years.

Of course, all players go through games where they're less aggressive, but it's a lot more noticeable with Rondo, who (1) has the capability to attack, and (2) is the most important part of our offense.

  While it's true that all players (including Rondo) and all teams go through times when they're less aggressive, I still say that when some of the other players (or the team as a whole) are going through less aggressive stretches it's generally classified as Rondo not being aggressive.
Offensively, I agree with this 100%. I can't even count high enough to count the amount of trips down the floor that I have seen:

1.) Rondo run a one man break and have to pull up because of the defense and wait for everyone to get up the floor to run a set play. This usually has Rondo bringing the ball back out and dribbling waiting for an open man to pass to. But this is perceived as Rondo passivity.

2.) Rondo handling the ball at the top of the key waiting to pass the ball with absolutely zero off the ball movement by anyone else on the court in green. If the other players aren't going to move how is that Rondo's fault for dribbling at the top of the key?

3. Rondo handling the ball at the top of the key waiting to pass the ball to only one man running through various screens attempting to get himself open and if he doesn't, just continuing to run through more screens until he is open or Rondo has to junk the play and do something.

Offensively, Rondo gets way to much blame for the whole team's lack of energy or poor play development simply because he has the ball in his hands. If Pierce brought the ball up, initiated the offense, had no one moving around looking to get open and then after 15 seconds Pierce went iso, this blog would be going crazy complaining about Pierce's ball hogging and love of an iso play instead of the fact his team mates aren't creating anything by moving off the ball.

Defensively, and remember I love Rondo and am probably one of his biggest fans here, but he does get very passive sometimes and gambles way too much. I give him a pass because he expends so much energy rebounding defensively, running the ball up the court and running the offense. So if he slacks off at times defensively, during the regular season, I don't care.

Point 2 is spot-on.

Your analysis of his defense is well-put.  As long as he performs in the playoffs, I'm alright with him taking one or two possessions off.

 

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