Author Topic: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue  (Read 8892 times)

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Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2013, 02:19:01 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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You're telling me Rondo has a more favorable matchup in the playoffs being guarded by DWade, Mario Chalmers, and Lebron James than he does against Goran Dragic, Kirk Heinrich, and Kyle Lowry?


In the playoffs defenses are FAR better.  Yet in the playoffs we see Rondo have a triple double every three games.  We see him drop 44 points.  We see 15-15-15 games.  In the regular season we see 10-10 with mediocre defense where he gambles and doesn't fight through picks or hustle in transition.  That is not a superstar.  Playoff Rondo is a superstar.  Regular season Rondo is a borderline top 5 PG. 

We need superstar Rondo if we want to be a truly great team.

And while I don't really like how Rondo takes nights off, mid-season games vs the Raptors or Bobcats aren't going to keep us from becoming a great team. Our lack of a solid back up to KG who can play center might, but not mid-season losses.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2013, 02:29:43 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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You're telling me Rondo has a more favorable matchup in the playoffs being guarded by DWade, Mario Chalmers, and Lebron James than he does against Goran Dragic, Kirk Heinrich, and Kyle Lowry?


In the playoffs defenses are FAR better.  Yet in the playoffs we see Rondo have a triple double every three games.  We see him drop 44 points.  We see 15-15-15 games.  In the regular season we see 10-10 with mediocre defense where he gambles and doesn't fight through picks or hustle in transition.  That is not a superstar.  Playoff Rondo is a superstar.  Regular season Rondo is a borderline top 5 PG. 

We need superstar Rondo if we want to be a truly great team.

And while I don't really like how Rondo takes nights off, mid-season games vs the Raptors or Bobcats aren't going to keep us from becoming a great team. Our lack of a solid back up to KG who can play center might, but not mid-season losses.

Some of our losses this season:
Bucks 99-88
Pistons 103-83
Nets 102-97
Nets 95-83
Bucks 91-88
Rockets 101-89
Bucks 99-94
Kings 118-96


In almost all of those games Rondo didn't produce or got lit up defensively or both.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2013, 02:33:07 PM »

Online Celtics18

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Rondo most games: 70%
Rondo during primetime/big headline games: 100%

KG most games: 95%
KG during primetime/big headline games: 100%

Lebron during most games: 100%
Lebron during primetime/big headline games:100%


And the only reason KG's effort goes down during normal games is because of his age and he has to be more careful about hurting himself.  Even then, his effort is consistently way higher than Rondos is.

Rondos' numbers across entire months are OBVIOUSLY going to be about the same.  Im talking individual games.  When he plays against the Raptors it's clearly not the same as when he plays against the Knicks.

How many times the past few years have we lost to garbage teams like the Raptors (or at least had a close game) and then blew out contenders like the Heat/Lakers/Magic/Cavs?  It's all effort.  Part of that was Ray/Pierce/the whole teams arrogance, but a LARGE portion of that stemmed from Rondo thinking the other team was below him and not worth his time.

Rondo exudes arrogance, which I love.  But I hate how that arrogance translates into laziness against lesser teams.  Whether that because he doesn't think he needs to try his hardest to win or because he doesn't value the game much and wants to save himself, he needs to put the pedal to the metal and play at least CLOSE to all out.

This lazy jog back on transition when we see Lee on a full out sprint every single time needs to stop.  Lee stops a fast break by himself usually about once, maybe twice a game on pure effort and sprinting back while Rondo trots back and watches.

Our perimeter d has gotten better and as a result our defense has gotten way better.  Why?  Because Bradley actually fights through screens and doesn't let guys blow by him because a steal attempt is easier than trying to keep the guy in front and contesting a shot like Rondo does.

Paul Pierce:  93.7% effort, 94.2% of the time.

Avery Bradley: 96.4% effort, 96.6% of the time.

Jason Terry:  87.1% effort, 88.9% of the time.

for complete listings, go to mymadeupnumbers.com.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2013, 02:38:51 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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The problem with Rondo is when he's not putting the effort forward, and still controlling the ball 90% of the shot-clock throughout the game. That's a problem.

If Pierce doesn't put the effort? Well, if he's not controlling the ball in that particular game, then it won't affect the rest of the team much.

For better or worse, dictated by how we run our offense, Rondo's impact whether good or bad in a particular day, will always be exponential to anyone else's.

When he's playing well, and our offense is really clicking, he deserves much of the praise, but when he's on, and the offense is not going, more often than not, he's the problem... it simply comes with the territory.

Now, if we were still running the offense we used during 2008, then Rondo's effort good or bad wouldn't be much of an issue.

Now defensively, that's a whole different ball game.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2013, 02:50:23 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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The problem with Rondo is when he's not putting the effort forward, and still controlling the ball 90% of the shot-clock throughout the game. That's a problem.

If Pierce doesn't put the effort? Well, if he's not controlling the ball in that particular game, then it won't affect the rest of the team much.

For better or worse, dictated by how we run our offense, Rondo's impact whether good or bad in a particular day, will always be exponential to anyone else's.

When he's playing well, and our offense is really clicking, he deserves much of the praise, but when he's on, and the offense is not going, more often than not, he's the problem... it simply comes with the territory.

Now, if we were still running the offense we used during 2008, then Rondo's effort good or bad wouldn't be much of an issue.

Now defensively, that's a whole different ball game.

Yeah basically Rondo carries a heavier load and responsibility.

Pierces lack of effort can often be looked at as more of a bad shooting night or shot just not falling.

Rondo isn't exactly a scorer so when he isn't having a good game its looked at more as an effort issue than just having a bad game.

Rondo will get more of the blame since the ball is in his hands more and he needs to do.more just like Pierce used to get ripped on in his early stages for similar things

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2013, 03:21:15 PM »

Offline tonyto3690

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The majority of my qualms with his effort are with his defense, not his offense.

I think he actually is lazy on defense to save himself to play offense.

The problems on offense stem when he isn't aggressive and doesn't attack and just tries to sit at the top of the key and set up a bunch of screens for someone and then we're back to watching Ray run around in circles for 20 seconds and have KG/Pierce shoot a desperation contested shot.

I'd rather just give the ball to Jeff Green every set and have him iso/post up than watch Rondo just sit there with the ball doing nothing which is infuriating because he can get past pretty much anyone in the NBA.

Lack of aggressiveness on offense, lack of effort on defense.

If Rondo played to his ability like he does in the playoffs, we wouldn't be a 6-8 seed team in the playoffs.  We would be the #2 seed this year and a case could be argued that we might even be able to snatch the #1 seed from Miami.  You really think that having homecourt over the Knicks/Heat/etc. wouldn't be a huge help in the playoffs this year?

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2013, 03:25:34 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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You're telling me Rondo has a more favorable matchup in the playoffs being guarded by DWade, Mario Chalmers, and Lebron James than he does against Goran Dragic, Kirk Heinrich, and Kyle Lowry?


In the playoffs defenses are FAR better.  Yet in the playoffs we see Rondo have a triple double every three games.  We see him drop 44 points.  We see 15-15-15 games.  In the regular season we see 10-10 with mediocre defense where he gambles and doesn't fight through picks or hustle in transition.  That is not a superstar.  Playoff Rondo is a superstar.  Regular season Rondo is a borderline top 5 PG. 

We need superstar Rondo if we want to be a truly great team.

And while I don't really like how Rondo takes nights off, mid-season games vs the Raptors or Bobcats aren't going to keep us from becoming a great team. Our lack of a solid back up to KG who can play center might, but not mid-season losses.

Some of our losses this season:
Bucks 99-88
Pistons 103-83
Nets 102-97
Nets 95-83
Bucks 91-88
Rockets 101-89
Bucks 99-94
Kings 118-96


In almost all of those games Rondo didn't produce or got lit up defensively or both.

Was he the only one with a bad game? Was he dealing with injuries(like the Kings game), how do you know other players didn't take some of these seriously?

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2013, 03:26:18 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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Rondo most games: 70%
Rondo during primetime/big headline games: 100%

KG most games: 95%
KG during primetime/big headline games: 100%

Lebron during most games: 100%
Lebron during primetime/big headline games:100%


And the only reason KG's effort goes down during normal games is because of his age and he has to be more careful about hurting himself.  Even then, his effort is consistently way higher than Rondos is.

Rondos' numbers across entire months are OBVIOUSLY going to be about the same.  Im talking individual games.  When he plays against the Raptors it's clearly not the same as when he plays against the Knicks.

How many times the past few years have we lost to garbage teams like the Raptors (or at least had a close game) and then blew out contenders like the Heat/Lakers/Magic/Cavs?  It's all effort.  Part of that was Ray/Pierce/the whole teams arrogance, but a LARGE portion of that stemmed from Rondo thinking the other team was below him and not worth his time.

Rondo exudes arrogance, which I love.  But I hate how that arrogance translates into laziness against lesser teams.  Whether that because he doesn't think he needs to try his hardest to win or because he doesn't value the game much and wants to save himself, he needs to put the pedal to the metal and play at least CLOSE to all out.

This lazy jog back on transition when we see Lee on a full out sprint every single time needs to stop.  Lee stops a fast break by himself usually about once, maybe twice a game on pure effort and sprinting back while Rondo trots back and watches.

Our perimeter d has gotten better and as a result our defense has gotten way better.  Why?  Because Bradley actually fights through screens and doesn't let guys blow by him because a steal attempt is easier than trying to keep the guy in front and contesting a shot like Rondo does.

Paul Pierce:  93.7% effort, 94.2% of the time.

Avery Bradley: 96.4% effort, 96.6% of the time.

Jason Terry:  87.1% effort, 88.9% of the time.

for complete listings, go to mymadeupnumbers.com.

My thoughts exactly, lol. tp

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2013, 03:27:27 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Rondo misses Ray Allen  :P

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2013, 03:38:16 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I think he is very consistent is stirring up hate from guys who don't understand his value.  No one steps up to a big game anymore on the team more than him.   DJ got for the big games too.  Some guys play to the level of their opponents it is just the way it is folks.   Great when your playing against studs and sucks eggs when your playing scrubs.
Paul Pierce does, to say the least.

  He really doesn't. I'd put Rondo's playoff stats up against Pierce's any day of the week. Paul scores more but that's about it.
I don't know how you define "steps up".  To me, Paul Pierce has always stepped up in big games, and more specifically the "big time" of big games, when Rondo seems to take a back seat.

  Paul's career numbers in the regular season are 22/6/4, 21/6/4 in the playoffs. Rondo's regular season numbers are 11/5/8, 15/6/9 in the playoffs. I think most definitions of "steps up" would favor Rondo. In terms of raw stats in the playoffs over the last 4 years, Paul is 20/6/3, Rondo is 16/7/10. Again, Rondo's numbers look pretty good.

  And while you seem to evaluate players mainly on crunch time scoring, I think you're sleeping on what Rondo did in the playoffs last year or what he's done this year. Why shouldn't he take a back seat in the past, with the big three on the team? But he's been scoring more lately than he has in the past (while still doing things like getting assists and rebounds that "don't count as stepping up).

Kind of a stupid argument.

They both have stepped up on big games in the playoffs and in crunch time.

Throw KG's name in there as well for stepping and in crunch time.

Only thing I will say about Rondo is that in general he has repeatably had favorable matchups in the playoffs

  That's not really true. Most of our playoff games are against top defensive teams, and most of those teams are better than average at limiting production from opposing point guards.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2013, 03:42:38 PM »

Offline ejk3489

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You're telling me Rondo has a more favorable matchup in the playoffs being guarded by DWade, Mario Chalmers, and Lebron James than he does against Goran Dragic, Kirk Heinrich, and Kyle Lowry?


In the playoffs defenses are FAR better.  Yet in the playoffs we see Rondo have a triple double every three games.  We see him drop 44 points.  We see 15-15-15 games.  In the regular season we see 10-10 with mediocre defense where he gambles and doesn't fight through picks or hustle in transition.  That is not a superstar.  Playoff Rondo is a superstar.  Regular season Rondo is a borderline top 5 PG. 

We need superstar Rondo if we want to be a truly great team.

And while I don't really like how Rondo takes nights off, mid-season games vs the Raptors or Bobcats aren't going to keep us from becoming a great team. Our lack of a solid back up to KG who can play center might, but not mid-season losses.

Some of our losses this season:
Bucks 99-88
Pistons 103-83
Nets 102-97
Nets 95-83
Bucks 91-88
Rockets 101-89
Bucks 99-94
Kings 118-96


In almost all of those games Rondo didn't produce or got lit up defensively or both.

Don't agree with blaming Rondo for some of those losses...

Bucks & Pistons game: got lit up but still produced his season averages, and the team as a whole sucked (especially the starters)
Nets: didn't play -out with ankle injury
Nets: only played two quarters due to ejection, but his fault
Bucks: didn't play -serving 1 game suspension
Rockets: had a line of 15/13/4/.462FG% and Lin played terribly...it was Greg Smith and Chandler Parsons who burned us
Bucks: played badly
Kings: played badly

And just as easily as you can name bad games Rondo had where we lost, I can name five more where he played well, was not on National TV or against a good opponent, and we won:

Nov 7th vs Washington (without Wall)
18pts, 14ast, 4rbs, .636FG%

Nov 12th vs Chicago (without Rose)
20pts, 10asts, 9rbs, .625FG%

Nov 25th vs Orlando (below .500 team)
15pts, 16ast, 10rbs, .467FG%

Dec 5th vs Minnesota (without Rubio)
17pts, 11ast, 1rb, .545FG% 

Dec 19th vs Cleveland (below .500 team)
20pts, 8ast, 4rbs, .636FG%

He also had his highest assist night (20) against Toronto, and two of his crappiest games against the leagues top teams:

Dec 15th vs San Antonio
6pts, 9ast, 5rbs, .429FG%

Dec 27th vs LAC
10pts, 6ast, 5rbs, .333FG%

So, it's just not true that Rondo only shows up in big games, or against big name opponents. The effort level is there most of the time, it's just when it's not it's so noticeable because of the effect he has on both ends of the court.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2013, 03:50:04 PM »

Offline BballTim

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You're telling me Rondo has a more favorable matchup in the playoffs being guarded by DWade, Mario Chalmers, and Lebron James than he does against Goran Dragic, Kirk Heinrich, and Kyle Lowry?


In the playoffs defenses are FAR better.  Yet in the playoffs we see Rondo have a triple double every three games.  We see him drop 44 points.  We see 15-15-15 games.  In the regular season we see 10-10 with mediocre defense where he gambles and doesn't fight through picks or hustle in transition.  That is not a superstar.  Playoff Rondo is a superstar.  Regular season Rondo is a borderline top 5 PG. 

We need superstar Rondo if we want to be a truly great team.

And while I don't really like how Rondo takes nights off, mid-season games vs the Raptors or Bobcats aren't going to keep us from becoming a great team. Our lack of a solid back up to KG who can play center might, but not mid-season losses.

Some of our losses this season:
Bucks 99-88
Pistons 103-83
Nets 102-97
Nets 95-83
Bucks 91-88
Rockets 101-89
Bucks 99-94
Kings 118-96


In almost all of those games Rondo didn't produce or got lit up defensively or both.

  For starters your list contains 2 games Rondo missed, one that he only played in the first half and one where he was hobbling up and down the court because he was injured.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2013, 04:17:05 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The problem with Rondo is when he's not putting the effort forward, and still controlling the ball 90% of the shot-clock throughout the game. That's a problem.

If Pierce doesn't put the effort? Well, if he's not controlling the ball in that particular game, then it won't affect the rest of the team much.

For better or worse, dictated by how we run our offense, Rondo's impact whether good or bad in a particular day, will always be exponential to anyone else's.

  The thing is when PP (or KG or anyone else) isn't putting in the effort most people call that "Rondo not putting in the effort". Rondo's the guy stuck trying to make something happen with dwindling options. Same thing when the shots aren't dropping for guys.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2013, 04:36:03 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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Another problem with Rondo's effort(or lack) on offense is if shots are falling he had a great game with say 13+ ast. But if guys miss wide open shots he "wasn't aggresive enough".

Downside to being a passing pg.

Re: Rondo's lack of consistent effort is our biggest issue
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2013, 05:37:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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You're telling me Rondo has a more favorable matchup in the playoffs being guarded by DWade, Mario Chalmers, and Lebron James than he does against Goran Dragic, Kirk Heinrich, and Kyle Lowry?


In the playoffs defenses are FAR better.  Yet in the playoffs we see Rondo have a triple double every three games.  We see him drop 44 points.  We see 15-15-15 games.  In the regular season we see 10-10 with mediocre defense where he gambles and doesn't fight through picks or hustle in transition.  That is not a superstar.  Playoff Rondo is a superstar.  Regular season Rondo is a borderline top 5 PG. 

We need superstar Rondo if we want to be a truly great team.

And while I don't really like how Rondo takes nights off, mid-season games vs the Raptors or Bobcats aren't going to keep us from becoming a great team. Our lack of a solid back up to KG who can play center might, but not mid-season losses.

Some of our losses this season:
Bucks 99-88
Pistons 103-83
Nets 102-97
Nets 95-83
Bucks 91-88
Rockets 101-89
Bucks 99-94
Kings 118-96


In almost all of those games Rondo didn't produce or got lit up defensively or both.
This has to be one of the most egregious examples of cherry picking stats to support an argument ever seen on CB.
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