Author Topic: U see how much better without rondo today  (Read 6572 times)

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Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2013, 08:18:15 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/on-off/2013/

Taking a look at the on/off stats its funny. We're better in every offensive category with Rondo on the court than off except rebounding, specifically offensive rebounding.

Yeah, and last time I checked those numbers for Rondo it revealed something very interesting.  Our offense rating with Rondo on the court was barely above the team average, yet our offensive rating with him off the court was far below team average.

That suggests to me that it's not Rondo's offensive brilliance that helps us, it's the lack of a proper (and productive) backup PG that hurts us.  If we traded Rondo for a good PG and a decent big I'd bet we woudl be at least as good (if not better) after the trade as we are now.

That's a very strange argument there.

Of course we will have drop off... not having a backup PG is the issue.

What does that take away from Rondo?


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Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2013, 08:21:22 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/on-off/2013/

Taking a look at the on/off stats its funny. We're better in every offensive category with Rondo on the court than off except rebounding, specifically offensive rebounding.

Yeah, and last time I checked those numbers for Rondo it revealed something very interesting.  Our offense rating with Rondo on the court was barely above the team average, yet our offensive rating with him off the court was far below team average.

That suggests to me that it's not Rondo's offensive brilliance that helps us, it's the lack of a proper (and productive) backup PG that hurts us.  If we traded Rondo for a good PG and a decent big I'd bet we woudl be at least as good (if not better) after the trade as we are now.

That's a very strange argument there.

Of course we will have drop off... not having a backup PG is the issue.

What does that take away from Rondo?

Why would we trade Rondo, (IMO the best point guard in the league but I'll listen to arguments as second best.) for a less talented PG and a big, when we could just use Lee or Barbosa as our back up PG for 10 minutes and be fine?
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PG:Rondo/Udrih/Dinwiddle
SG:Williams/Miller/Delladova
SF:Afflalo/Young
PF:Green/Hill/Powell
C:Hibbert/Nurcik/Bynum

Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2013, 08:29:19 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/on-off/2013/

Taking a look at the on/off stats its funny. We're better in every offensive category with Rondo on the court than off except rebounding, specifically offensive rebounding.

Yeah, and last time I checked those numbers for Rondo it revealed something very interesting.  Our offense rating with Rondo on the court was barely above the team average, yet our offensive rating with him off the court was far below team average.

That suggests to me that it's not Rondo's offensive brilliance that helps us, it's the lack of a proper (and productive) backup PG that hurts us.  If we traded Rondo for a good PG and a decent big I'd bet we woudl be at least as good (if not better) after the trade as we are now.

That's a very strange argument there.

Of course we will have drop off... not having a backup PG is the issue.

What does that take away from Rondo?

Why would we trade Rondo, (IMO the best point guard in the league but I'll listen to arguments as second best.) for a less talented PG and a big, when we could just use Lee or Barbosa as our back up PG for 10 minutes and be fine?

They group that are down on Rondo confuses me greatly and I'm really not going to bother trying to figure out their logic much because I totally disagree with all the points they present.


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Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2013, 08:38:24 AM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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The constant effort to label Rondo as a superstar ends up derailing the expectations. To me, he isn't a superstar. If he were to be called one, teams would be willing to make trades for him when Ainge was apparently shopping him and also, your GM wouldn't be shopping him in the first place.

That said, he's clearly a much better PG than we could ever get if we were to replace him via trade at this point. I don't really care if he is Top 3, Top 5 or Top 10 in his position. What really matters is he isn't beyond that number and that's more than enough.

Yeah rondo is a allstar definitely not a superstar.

Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2013, 08:46:18 AM »

Offline Jeff

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Rondo makes us better.
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Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2013, 09:08:56 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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The constant effort to label Rondo as a superstar ends up derailing the expectations. To me, he isn't a superstar. If he were to be called one, teams would be willing to make trades for him when Ainge was apparently shopping him and also, your GM wouldn't be shopping him in the first place.

That said, he's clearly a much better PG than we could ever get if we were to replace him via trade at this point. I don't really care if he is Top 3, Top 5 or Top 10 in his position. What really matters is he isn't beyond that number and that's more than enough.

Yeah rondo is a allstar definitely not a superstar.

Which NBA players do you put in the category of "superstar."
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Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #66 on: January 10, 2013, 09:13:56 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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This team is better with Rondo then without him (in a vacuum)



Mind you that doesn't mean the team couldn't get better if they traded him.  It depends on the return, but there are not a whole lot of returns out there for him that would actually improve the team (or possibly keep them at the same level)


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Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #67 on: January 10, 2013, 09:44:19 AM »

Online BballTim

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And some criticize towards a player they dont like just because

thats the nature of a place like this
somehow...

Who here seriously doesn't like Rondo? 

We are Celtics fans, that's why we are here.  90% of us like Rondo, in fact 90% of us love Rondo. 

We just get incredibly frustrated by the fact that he is such a "love / hate" player as a fan because his effort is either 150% or else it's 0%.

When Rondo plays like he's interested he is easilly a top 10 player in this league, and he's borderline unstoppable.  When he plays like he's not interested he's as good as useless, and just about any decent PG would do a better job.  The problem is that it seems like for every interested game, there are 2 or 3 uninterested ones.

That's the problem - that's why people get frustrated.  You never know what you will get from him, you can't depend on him as a leader because you never know which Rondo is going to show up.

  That's pretty ridiculous. Look at his play the last 3-4 years, when he's been healthy he's generally played well. If you just think about what you wrote, players like Magic and Bird would have trouble being seen as great players if they gave zero effort and showed no interest in 2 games out of every 3.

As for the "turns it on in the playoffs" argument, well that's all pretty useless if we don't MAKE it to the playoffs, isn't it?  Up until Bradley's return we were out of the top 8 and on target to not make the playoffs, yet Rondo didn't suddenly turn it up and play with a sense of urgency.  He kept playing 60% of the time like he wasn't interested.

  Rondo was seriously hampered by his hip injury but he still played because he was trying to help the team win. Many people would consider that to be showing a sense of urgency. The fact that you're knocking someone who's playing through an injury even though he's hobbling up and down the court in an effort to help the team as not interested and lacking in urgency says a lot about your overall opinion of Rondo.

Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #68 on: January 10, 2013, 10:27:15 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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When I read the title of this thread, all I see is  :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P


Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #69 on: January 10, 2013, 10:30:38 AM »

Offline ScottHow

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Rondo seems to be either the most loved or hated player on the Celtics. The extremes are amazing, lol

Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #70 on: January 10, 2013, 10:34:44 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Rondo seems to be either the most loved or hated player on the Celtics. The extremes are amazing, lol
He's a confusing player. He doesn't fit the "mold" we're used to.

He's a tempermental guy emotionally you can see that. He's also very stubborn.

Then he's also a PG who doesn't shoot much and became an impact offensive player without shooting free throws, threes, or jump shots well. And he did this while his team was winning a LOT of games.

Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #71 on: January 10, 2013, 10:58:55 AM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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One thing is when ROndo is playing hurt , he doesn't help the Celtics very little.   IF he was a great shooter , then he would still be some help. But, Rondo relies alot on his speed and athletic skills...  when he is hurt or not 100% his game goes in the tank.

He might be hurtin the team by playn hurt and he thinks he is helping.

I rather see Barbosa and Lee playing or PP than a standing around looking lost and sick ROndo.

He just doesn't look right out there is past few games.

Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #72 on: January 10, 2013, 11:03:37 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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And some criticize towards a player they dont like just because

thats the nature of a place like this
somehow...

Who here seriously doesn't like Rondo? 

We are Celtics fans, that's why we are here.  90% of us like Rondo, in fact 90% of us love Rondo. 

We just get incredibly frustrated by the fact that he is such a "love / hate" player as a fan because his effort is either 150% or else it's 0%.

When Rondo plays like he's interested he is easilly a top 10 player in this league, and he's borderline unstoppable.  When he plays like he's not interested he's as good as useless, and just about any decent PG would do a better job.  The problem is that it seems like for every interested game, there are 2 or 3 uninterested ones.

That's the problem - that's why people get frustrated.  You never know what you will get from him, you can't depend on him as a leader because you never know which Rondo is going to show up.

  That's pretty ridiculous. Look at his play the last 3-4 years, when he's been healthy he's generally played well. If you just think about what you wrote, players like Magic and Bird would have trouble being seen as great players if they gave zero effort and showed no interest in 2 games out of every 3.

As for the "turns it on in the playoffs" argument, well that's all pretty useless if we don't MAKE it to the playoffs, isn't it?  Up until Bradley's return we were out of the top 8 and on target to not make the playoffs, yet Rondo didn't suddenly turn it up and play with a sense of urgency.  He kept playing 60% of the time like he wasn't interested.

  Rondo was seriously hampered by his hip injury but he still played because he was trying to help the team win. Many people would consider that to be showing a sense of urgency. The fact that you're knocking someone who's playing through an injury even though he's hobbling up and down the court in an effort to help the team as not interested and lacking in urgency says a lot about your overall opinion of Rondo.

I honestly have a hard time believing that anyone could believe this team wouldnt make the playoffs even if Bradley was out for the entire year...I mean yea we are in 8th right now but really. You really dont think we would turn our season around and make at least the 8th slot if Bradley was hurt all year?
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PG:Rondo/Udrih/Dinwiddle
SG:Williams/Miller/Delladova
SF:Afflalo/Young
PF:Green/Hill/Powell
C:Hibbert/Nurcik/Bynum

Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #73 on: January 10, 2013, 11:30:22 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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Rondo seems to be either the most loved or hated player on the Celtics. The extremes are amazing, lol
He's a confusing player. He doesn't fit the "mold" we're used to.

He's a tempermental guy emotionally you can see that. He's also very stubborn.

Then he's also a PG who doesn't shoot much and became an impact offensive player without shooting free throws, threes, or jump shots well. And he did this while his team was winning a LOT of games.

I understand these but still don't see how some people don't see the impact he makes or how he steps up.

I think people get spoiled and don't appreciate good PG play.  I've seen bad.  You have a PG like Rondo you hold onto him.

And there's been the whole "his team now" talk the last couple seasons, but some fans just still seem to think he rides coat tails or something of guys like Pierce and KG.

One thing is when ROndo is playing hurt , he doesn't help the Celtics very little.   IF he was a great shooter , then he would still be some help. But, Rondo relies alot on his speed and athletic skills...  when he is hurt or not 100% his game goes in the tank.

He might be hurtin the team by playn hurt and he thinks he is helping.

I rather see Barbosa and Lee playing or PP than a standing around looking lost and sick ROndo.

He just doesn't look right out there is past few games.

You seriously think he hasn't played well the last few games?  C'mon.


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Re: U see how much better without rondo today
« Reply #74 on: January 10, 2013, 11:35:45 AM »

Offline alajet

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The constant effort to label Rondo as a superstar ends up derailing the expectations. To me, he isn't a superstar. If he were to be called one, teams would be willing to make trades for him when Ainge was apparently shopping him and also, your GM wouldn't be shopping him in the first place.

That said, he's clearly a much better PG than we could ever get if we were to replace him via trade at this point. I don't really care if he is Top 3, Top 5 or Top 10 in his position. What really matters is he isn't beyond that number and that's more than enough.

Yeah rondo is a allstar definitely not a superstar.

Which NBA players do you put in the category of "superstar."

The ones that dominate. LeBron is the easiest choice. He led a bunch of scrubs to the finals. Granted, the East was a wreck back at that time, but that takes little out of it.
Durant, after he got past his rookie season, in which he struggled with his shot.
Kobe, because he is the clutchest active player.

All others are replaceable in my book, and if you are replaceable, you aren't a superstar. In that sense, PGs have the least luck out of any position to be superstars, since they are the least likely to dominate the game so much. Unless they are Big O or Magic, of course.

 

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