Author Topic: Woj: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay (Update: C's have called about Gay)  (Read 8194 times)

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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 01:07:37 PM »

Online Yoki_IsTheName

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I wonder if Beasley will be involved in this deal?

That said, Gay to PHX eh? I think thats good for the Suns.
Why would Memphis take Beasley?

I dont know actually.  Im just curious to be quite honest.

He's been bad in PHX and im just wondering maybe Memphis would be a good fit. But I really have no idea.
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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 01:09:33 PM »

Offline action781

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To a couple people who asked-- I think this does make sense for Phoenix.  They have absolutely no ability to attract any star-level players.  If they were to get one, they would have to overpay them far worse than Rudy Gay may currently be overpaid.  If they can acquire a player of Gay's level by doing these types of trade, I think they should do it.
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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 01:11:20 PM »

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So far this year, Jared Dudley has been superior to Rudy Gay. Rudy hasn't really turned in a good season in almost 2 years (he has big games, occasionally, but not consistently). Look at the numbers:

Dudley- 49% from the field, 38.2% from 3, 80.8% from the line, true shooting 60%
Gay- 41% from the field, 32% from 3, 80% from the line, true shooting 48.7%

Dudley- 1.35 PPS
Gay- 1.08 PPS (ouch)

Gay is a better rebounder, but Dudley is a better passer (more assists, fewer turnovers).

The only thing that Gay has over Dudley is that he is a much better defender. Dudley doesn't do much on that end, but at least for this season he has been far superior offensively.

Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 01:14:58 PM »

Offline Chris

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To a couple people who asked-- I think this does make sense for Phoenix.  They have absolutely no ability to attract any star-level players.  If they were to get one, they would have to overpay them far worse than Rudy Gay may currently be overpaid.  If they can acquire a player of Gay's level by doing these types of trade, I think they should do it.

This is an interesting point, and while I don't disagree with it (or agree with it either), if it is true, Sarver needs to look in the mirror.

Phoenix should be a big draw for free agents.  Great weather, golf, etc.  While it may not be as exciting as NY or LA, there are a ton of players who would love to live there.

But, no one wants to go there, because they have a notoriously cheap owner.  No one wants to sign there and know that they won't shell out the rest of the money to make them a real contender.

So far this year, Jared Dudley has been superior to Rudy Gay. Rudy hasn't really turned in a good season in almost 2 years (he has big games, occasionally, but not consistently). Look at the numbers:

Dudley- 49% from the field, 38.2% from 3, 80.8% from the line, true shooting 60%
Gay- 41% from the field, 32% from 3, 80% from the line, true shooting 48.7%

Dudley- 1.35 PPS
Gay- 1.08 PPS (ouch)

Gay is a better rebounder, but Dudley is a better passer (more assists, fewer turnovers).

The only thing that Gay has over Dudley is that he is a much better defender. Dudley doesn't do much on that end, but at least for this season he has been far superior offensively.

Eh, its hard to compare them offensively, since they have such dramatically different roles.  Gay is asked to be the primary perimeter scorer for Memphis, and is keyed on defensively, while Dudley basically gets open shots off of plays by other guys. 

Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 01:16:42 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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So far this year, Jared Dudley has been superior to Rudy Gay. Rudy hasn't really turned in a good season in almost 2 years (he has big games, occasionally, but not consistently). Look at the numbers:

Dudley- 49% from the field, 38.2% from 3, 80.8% from the line, true shooting 60%
Gay- 41% from the field, 32% from 3, 80% from the line, true shooting 48.7%

Dudley- 1.35 PPS
Gay- 1.08 PPS (ouch)

Gay is a better rebounder, but Dudley is a better passer (more assists, fewer turnovers).

The only thing that Gay has over Dudley is that he is a much better defender. Dudley doesn't do much on that end, but at least for this season he has been far superior offensively.

While all that may be true, you neglected to mention career scoring averages:

Gay: 17.9 ppg
Dudley: 8.8 ppg

That's the impetus for Phoenix: getting a bona fide scorer.
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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 01:25:59 PM »

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So far this year, Jared Dudley has been superior to Rudy Gay. Rudy hasn't really turned in a good season in almost 2 years (he has big games, occasionally, but not consistently). Look at the numbers:

Dudley- 49% from the field, 38.2% from 3, 80.8% from the line, true shooting 60%
Gay- 41% from the field, 32% from 3, 80% from the line, true shooting 48.7%

Dudley- 1.35 PPS
Gay- 1.08 PPS (ouch)

Gay is a better rebounder, but Dudley is a better passer (more assists, fewer turnovers).

The only thing that Gay has over Dudley is that he is a much better defender. Dudley doesn't do much on that end, but at least for this season he has been far superior offensively.

Looking at those shooting numbers for Gay, and I can't help but wonder...whats the difference between him and Jeff Green, other than opportunity to be the primary scorer?

If you were the Suns GM, why not just try to trade Gortat straight up for Green, save a ton of money for your penny pinching owner, and a couple draft picks for yourself, and let someone else worry about Gay?

Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 01:27:47 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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This might make it worth Phoenix's while.

Memphis gets Lee, Dudley, and pick from Phx.

Phoenix gets Gay, Bass, Melo, and pick from Bos.

Boston gets Gortat and Beasley

Memphis gets a SG AND a SF that can spread the floor and play D.


Phoenix basically swaps the Bass contract for Beasley and gets a prospect and pick. They move a guy who doesn't want to be there. They also get their franchise guy.

Boston gets a talented center and also takes back Beasley (same contract as Bass) who has talent and might just blossom under Rivers and from being in a veteran locker room for the first time.

Anyways with the emergence of Sully and addition of Gortat (Kg starts at PF now) Bass would be seeing reduced minutes. So its basically the same contract sitting on the bench, but its just named Beasley instead of Bass.

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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire RudyGay
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 01:28:36 PM »

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http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b7thoj8

Why would they involve a third team?

Suns trade: Dudley, Wes Johnson, Telfair (Both Johnson and Telfair are on 1 yr contracts) 2013 1st, 2015 1st
Griz Trade: Rudy Gay

Two first rounders for Rudy Gay? Seems a bit rich, unless the picks are heavily protected.
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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 01:29:37 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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So far this year, Jared Dudley has been superior to Rudy Gay. Rudy hasn't really turned in a good season in almost 2 years (he has big games, occasionally, but not consistently). Look at the numbers:

Dudley- 49% from the field, 38.2% from 3, 80.8% from the line, true shooting 60%
Gay- 41% from the field, 32% from 3, 80% from the line, true shooting 48.7%

Dudley- 1.35 PPS
Gay- 1.08 PPS (ouch)

Gay is a better rebounder, but Dudley is a better passer (more assists, fewer turnovers).

The only thing that Gay has over Dudley is that he is a much better defender. Dudley doesn't do much on that end, but at least for this season he has been far superior offensively.

Looking at those shooting numbers for Gay, and I can't help but wonder...whats the difference between him and Jeff Green, other than opportunity to be the primary scorer?

If you were the Suns GM, why not just try to trade Gortat straight up for Green, save a ton of money for your penny pinching owner, and a couple draft picks for yourself, and let someone else worry about Gay?

Selling tickets. Rudy Gay is a sexier name then Jeff Green. He is also a more exciting player.

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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2013, 01:38:33 PM »

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Just for fun, here are the per 36 minute stats for Green and Rudy over their careers.  Tell, is it worth an extra 7-10 million per year, plus the extra assets to get Gay?  I'm not so sure.

Green: 14.8 pts, 5.9 rebs, 1.7 ast, .443 FG, .337 3pt, .774 FT

Gay: 17.8 pts, 5.7 rebs, 2.0 ast, .453 FG, .345 3pt, .773 FT

And normally I don't like per36 minute stats, but since Green spent the majority of his career playing close to that many minutes, and has kept similar ratios in Boston, and Gay plays about that many minutes now, it seems like a good time to use them.

So, basically 3 points per game and 1% better shooting percentage is the only difference between the players...

And we have seen in Boston how exciting Green can be to watch when you get him in the open court.

Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 01:49:02 PM »

Offline action781

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Just for fun, here are the per 36 minute stats for Green and Rudy over their careers.  Tell, is it worth an extra 7-10 million per year, plus the extra assets to get Gay?  I'm not so sure.

Green: 14.8 pts, 5.9 rebs, 1.7 ast, .443 FG, .337 3pt, .774 FT

Gay: 17.8 pts, 5.7 rebs, 2.0 ast, .453 FG, .345 3pt, .773 FT

And normally I don't like per36 minute stats, but since Green spent the majority of his career playing close to that many minutes, and has kept similar ratios in Boston, and Gay plays about that many minutes now, it seems like a good time to use them.

So, basically 3 points per game and 1% better shooting percentage is the only difference between the players...

And we have seen in Boston how exciting Green can be to watch when you get him in the open court.

So maybe Memphis would like him as a cheaper replacement? :)

Memphis gets:  Jeff Green
Phoenix gets:  Gay, Melo
Boston gets:  Dudley, Gortat

Phoenix gets a first round pick from Boston.

We'd be taking on $1.9M in salary.  Can we take that on without exceeding the tax limit now that we've cut Joseph and Varnado?  If we're close, we could send Collins out.

I would be so all over this deal.
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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2013, 01:52:27 PM »

Offline Chris

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Just for fun, here are the per 36 minute stats for Green and Rudy over their careers.  Tell, is it worth an extra 7-10 million per year, plus the extra assets to get Gay?  I'm not so sure.

Green: 14.8 pts, 5.9 rebs, 1.7 ast, .443 FG, .337 3pt, .774 FT

Gay: 17.8 pts, 5.7 rebs, 2.0 ast, .453 FG, .345 3pt, .773 FT

And normally I don't like per36 minute stats, but since Green spent the majority of his career playing close to that many minutes, and has kept similar ratios in Boston, and Gay plays about that many minutes now, it seems like a good time to use them.

So, basically 3 points per game and 1% better shooting percentage is the only difference between the players...

And we have seen in Boston how exciting Green can be to watch when you get him in the open court.

So maybe Memphis would like him as a cheaper replacement? :)

Memphis gets:  Jeff Green
Phoenix gets:  Gay, Melo
Boston gets:  Dudley, Gortat

Phoenix gets a first round pick from Boston.

We'd be taking on $1.9M in salary.  Can we take that on without exceeding the tax limit now that we've cut Joseph and Varnado?  If we're close, we could send Collins out.

I would be so all over this deal.

I doubt that, since Hollinger HATES Green.  But I don't see why the Suns wouldn't kick the tires on him, if they are looking for a long, athletic, swing man, who can score.

Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2013, 01:54:23 PM »

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Really unfortunate that Memphis would blow their title chance like this.

Bummer when a small market team is set up and they give it away.

But we will see what happens.


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Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2013, 01:59:46 PM »

Offline Chris

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Really unfortunate that Memphis would blow their title chance like this.

Bummer when a small market team is set up and they give it away.

But we will see what happens.

To be fair, I am not sure swapping Gay for Dudley would blow their chances, since Dudley is an upgrade defensively, and it will just let them pound the ball inside even more, which is their strength.

Re: Adrian Wojnarowski: Suns in talks to acquire Rudy Gay
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2013, 03:04:52 PM »

Offline RyNye

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While all that may be true, you neglected to mention career scoring averages:

Gay: 17.9 ppg
Dudley: 8.8 ppg

That's the impetus for Phoenix: getting a bona fide scorer.

God, this is my least favorite argument in all of basketball.

Scoring averages are completely meaningless without taking into account field goal percentage. Why do I always need to remind people of this?

Career averages:

Gay:
   17.9 points per game
   15.2 field goal attempts per game
   45.3% from the field
   34.5% from 3-point land
   77.3% from the line
   52.8% true shooting percentage
   1.18 PPS

Dudley:
   8.8 points per game
   6.7 field goal attempts per game
   47.6% from the field
   40.5% from 3-point
   73.8% from the line
   58.3% true shooting percentage
   1.32 PPS

For purposes of comparison, for the past season, here are the shooting averages for all small forwards in the league:

44.7% from the field
36.1% from 3-point
78.1% from the line
54.0% true shooting percentage
1.22 PPS

When you look at their numbers, over the course of their entire careers, Dudley has been a superior offensive player in terms of raw efficiency. That he scored less is only a function of playing fewer minutes and getting fewer touches; if he got the same number of touches as Gay, he would in fact have scored more than Rudy.

Now, you can argue that the differences are a function of the system they play in. Gay tends to create off the dribble, which will always be a lower percentage shot than catch-and-shoot. That's perfectly valid. I am not trying to make a prediction about how either player will fare if this trade goes through, I am simply commenting that, when you look at the numbers, Dudley has been a more efficient offensive weapon. Not only that, but Gay's career averages are, in fact, below the league average for small forwards.

 

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