Author Topic: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)  (Read 1808 times)

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Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 01:34:59 PM »

Offline foulweatherfan

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I mean, making a trillion dollar coin sounds like something you'd hear to explain the macguffin in a Ocean's 11 movie or a Nic Cage vehicle.

Coming soon to theaters: 

National Treasure 3: Fight for Change

Just think of the puns. Man it would be awesome. Brett Ratner would just run around his office like a giddy school girl screaming "THIS STUFF WRITES ITS SELF!!"

"No, Silas...I just came to ask if you HAD ANY CHANGE!!" (guns and explosions!)

Nic Cage: "Don't suppose you had any spare change."
Enemy who used to be a friend, but became the enemy: "Sorry old friend, but this time, I really can't spare it." (GUNZ AND EXPLOSIONS!!!!)

Bad guy Aaron Burrtoo (played by Sean Bean), stands on the foothills of a massive pile of coins in the secret vault beneath the National Mint, pointing a gun at Nic Cage, kneeling and helpless.

Bean: And now, it's time for your adventure to end, Mr Gates.  I guess the third time's not the charm. *winks at camera*

Thinking fast, Cage throws a handful of coins at Bean, making him stumble back and fire into the air.  Bean regains his balance and reaims the gun with a steely glare. 

Bean:  Nice trick.  But this time you'll get no quarter.

But suddenly, both men look up as they hear a deep rumbling.  The shot has caused a coin avalanche.

Bean and Cage both sprint for a bulkhead door that is quickly closing for some reason.  Cage dives through the door at the last instant as Bean is swallowed up by the mountain of change. 

Sirens blare as Cage quickly runs to where his plucky young sidekick (played by Dakota Fanning, or her little sister.  Whoever) is hiding.

Fanning:  What happened to Mr Burrtoo?
Cage: He got nickel-and-dimed to death...
Fanning: Hahaha, you're the best, Mr G-
Cage:...to coin a phrase.
Fanning: Ok, too far.

AND SCENE!

Now I want to write this - it'd be the best thing since Lethal Weapon 5.

Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 01:37:47 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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Coining $2 trillion extra, and "writing checks on the proceeds", would devalue the currency.  It doesn't matter if you're "writing checks" to pay down debt, to pay for social programs, or as further direct stimulus:  it's all going to devalue the money we currently have.
Not in the current circumstances, with interest rates basically at 0%.

Every projection of debt and deficits assumes that the ceiling goes up. The money needs to be raised one way or another; the coin isn't an attempt to create something from nothing, it's one silly construct to evade another one. Nobody is claiming that it would be impossible to sell Treasury bonds absent the debt limit.

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This isn't a serious idea.  (And even if it were, there's no way it would get through Congress, which has a say in determining how money is coined.)
The debt ceiling is not serious. It makes no sense for the Legislature to prevent the Executive branch from raising the money to pay for the spending that was set in place by law. This is an attempt to get something changed by hostage negotiation, which doesn't have the votes in Congress.

Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 01:38:08 PM »

Online Cman

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Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 01:45:50 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Wouldn't it just be easier to just tell all of our creditors to pound sand?

Debt is only debt if you actually intend on paying it back.
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Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 01:51:26 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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Wouldn't it just be easier to just tell all of our creditors to pound sand?

Debt is only debt if you actually intend on paying it back.
You wouldn't like the repercussions of that. The federal government has never defaulted, not once, and it's one of the reasons for the strength of the country (thanks, Alexander Hamilton).

Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 02:00:18 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Wouldn't it just be easier to just tell all of our creditors to pound sand?

Debt is only debt if you actually intend on paying it back.
You wouldn't like the repercussions of that. The federal government has never defaulted, not once, and it's one of the reasons for the strength of the country (thanks, Alexander Hamilton).

Well, we kind of are already half way there.  It's not as if we're actually paying back our debt anyways.  We just keep borrowing more money.  Why continue to bother with the chirade?
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Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 02:09:27 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I'm far from being an economic expert—heck, I'm far from being even an economic amateur—but all of this stuff sounds crazy to me.

I'm not sure that any of our nation's leaders have any concept of how much money we're dealing with here. Our nation is $16 TRILLION in debt. For all intents and purposes, our country can never pay off its debt, or even come close. And maybe we don't need to come close, but all this money is like Monopoly money to these people—they operate as though we can forever print more money, forever raise ceilings, forever continue with wasteful spending, and none of it will ever catch up with us.

Raise the debt ceiling some more, they say, after raising it just one year ago. But the OP says there's a statutory limit on how much paper currency can be printed. Well, why don't we just change the "paper currency" ceiling? Congress can just keep voting for whatever it wants, including undeserved raises, and these people are hardly ever penalized by the voters, so let's just keep printing more paper, and more coinage, and raising every type of ceiling that exists.

I know there are supposed to be economic "rules"—you know, we can't do X because that will cause horrible inflation (for example)—but really, who are we kidding right now? We added $2+ trillion to the debt in 2012, and now the president wants to add another $2+ trillion to the debt ceiling, an amount we'll probably use up by October. It's almost as though these amounts aren't even real, because none of us can comprehend how big the amounts are.

Can someone help me out here? ;D
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 02:15:52 PM by rocknrollforyoursoul »
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Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 02:12:15 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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Well, we kind of are already half way there.  It's not as if we're actually paying back our debt anyways.  We just keep borrowing more money.  Why continue to bother with the chirade?
It's not going to happen. Not in 225 years has the federal government so much as been late on a payment, and we've carried larger debt/GDP than this. The US is unique in the history of sovereign borrowers in this respect. It's important to understand how important this status is.

There is still revenue coming in, even though we have a large deficit. If it came to it, Obama would probably service the debt first and then cut back on something he could beat up the GOP with (like Social Security checks). Or he'd mint a trillion dollar coin. Or issue promises to repay not legally bound. Or he'd just break the law.

Default is not an option.

Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 02:29:15 PM »

Online Cman

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Well, we kind of are already half way there.  It's not as if we're actually paying back our debt anyways.  We just keep borrowing more money.  Why continue to bother with the chirade?
It's not going to happen. Not in 225 years has the federal government so much as been late on a payment, and we've carried larger debt/GDP than this. The US is unique in the history of sovereign borrowers in this respect. It's important to understand how important this status is.

There is still revenue coming in, even though we have a large deficit. If it came to it, Obama would probably service the debt first and then cut back on something he could beat up the GOP with (like Social Security checks). Or he'd mint a trillion dollar coin. Or issue promises to repay not legally bound. Or he'd just break the law.

Default is not an option.

I agree, but let's keep in mind that we don't want to fall in the trap of saying "this time its different", i.e. that somehow the US is unique and not prone to the same macroeconomic mistakes as other countries.
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Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2013, 02:32:26 PM »

Online Cman

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we've carried larger debt/GDP than this.

Yes.

Here's a nice graph:
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Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 02:42:53 PM »

Online D.o.s.

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The debt ceiling is not serious. It makes no sense for the Legislature to prevent the Executive branch from raising the money to pay for the spending that was set in place by law. This is an attempt to get something changed by hostage negotiation, which doesn't have the votes in Congress.

Bingo. This is insipid, uninspired partisan politics enacted by people who were elected under vague ideological pretenses doing a serious disservice to the intelligence of the people who voted for them by continually carrying on with this malarky.

They're banking on the fact that people will become intimidated by the phrase "debt ceiling," fail to do any research, and get agitated because they're afraid of anything and everything that has to do with the word "debt."

Which, sadly, seems to be exactly what's happening.
Michael Jordan: It's a man's game, and you can't play.
 Bill Murray: It's 'cause I'm white, isn't it?
Michael Jordan: No. Larry's white, so what?
Bill Murray: Larry's not white. Larry's clear.

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Can't read the entire thread but cone people.

Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2013, 03:04:18 PM »

Offline Edgar

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ok ok ok

Charge it here and stop the complaining...

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Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2013, 03:08:38 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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I agree, but let's keep in mind that we don't want to fall in the trap of saying "this time its different", i.e. that somehow the US is unique and not prone to the same macroeconomic mistakes as other countries.
Indeed. The point that I was making isn't that the US is immune to default, but that we have a Very Important Thing going here. There is a reason that Treasuries are considered the safest investment in the world, and this is beneficial to us as a country. This means that:

1) the Republicans (and the Democrats, if you please, during the Bush years) are irresponsible for using the debt limit in negotiations, and
2) Obama should do whatever is necessary to avoid default.

Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2013, 03:26:38 PM »

Offline JSD

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Good news for me. I have a lot of my savings in gold and real estate. Gold goes up and the cost of my mortgages goes down. Print away.

But more seriously, this is why it was put in our Constitution that only silver and gold be legal tender. Not only would we have avoided all this crazy spending, gold and silver are impossible to counterfeit and difficult to inexpensively obtain.

Re: A Trillion Dollar Coin? Shutup, Internet! (CE Forum)
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2013, 03:38:38 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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^ I hope you're sufficiently diversified. Nobody ever lost their shirt investing in US government debt (unless you bet against it), but the same can't be said for gold or real estate.

 

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