Author Topic: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....  (Read 8890 times)

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Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #75 on: January 08, 2013, 09:16:20 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.

Just an aside, but the 20/10 milestone is pretty tough to achieve.  Currently, not a single player in the NBA is averaging 20/10, although David Lee comes close (19.9 / 10.9).

In fact, only six guys are averaging as many as 17 points and 8.5 rebounds:

Link.

I was pretty surprised by that.


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Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2013, 10:23:51 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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My hope is his ceiling will be 17 and 10. Although I'm feeling pretty greedy asking for that.

Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2013, 10:28:55 PM »

Offline jdz101

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What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.

Just an aside, but the 20/10 milestone is pretty tough to achieve.  Currently, not a single player in the NBA is averaging 20/10, although David Lee comes close (19.9 / 10.9).

In fact, only six guys are averaging as many as 17 points and 8.5 rebounds:

Link.

I was pretty surprised by that.

I'm not as surprised. This league just isn't about scoring down low anymore. There's plenty of guys that can easily grab you ten rebounds. It's getting the looks to reach 20 points which is the issue.


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Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2013, 10:46:03 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Thanks Roy, good info. I think I've heard the "he's a 20/10" guy so much, even form the pundit sportscasters, that it makes it seem like every team has a 20/10 guy.

I'm suprised by that as well - and I take back my 20/10 comment...

On the other hand, if there are only a handful of guys in the league who are currently averaging 17.5 points and 8.5 rebounds a game, the value I place on Jared Sullinger just went through the roof.

This kid is a 20 year old rookie who I think could easily, easily, easily be averaging 10 points and 5 boards a night during the second half of the season.

Extrapolating out 2 years of weight training, conditioning and experience, 15 & 8 doesn't seem like an impossible target - and that would be sniffing top ten status as a big man in the league.

He will figure out more and more how to get his shot in the paint - he's already made leaps and bounds on that aspect so far. What increases this kid's chances of scoring higher numbers are his better than average jump shot and his "very" good foul shooting.

I also think this group of veterans will ride him more and more as he slowly proves he can be a post threat in ISO's on the block and displays good passing abilities out of the post...

He has very good potential and he's a high, high character kid - I'd really like it if we waited a bit more for before trading him for someone like Gortat.

if Cousins wasn't a headcase I'd seriously consider trading Sully and maybe even Bradley for him because he could be a top 3 center. But trading for Cousins to me is like trading for Bynum - "hope" that goes well...

 

Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2013, 10:54:58 PM »

Offline cman88

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the last 10 games he's been averaging around 7.5ppg, 6.7RPG on 53% shooting...so his stats have steadily been rising as the season goes forward.

I could see him being a 10/10 guy by the end of the season.

its also something to note that he is tied with KG for the best +/- on the team

Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2013, 11:04:07 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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Sully is def getting close to becoming my full time binky. When that happens I will dismiss all trades involving him and will assume his floor is hofer lol

Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2013, 12:53:10 AM »

Offline wahz

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The only reason any of the young guys are "touchable," is that we have minimal time left with KG and PP. Otherwise, trading Bradley, Rondo or Sullinger is madness.(youth, improvement, great contracts, mad dog desire, etc) Id add Melo, Lee, Green, and perhaps even Bass to that list which I know NO ONE will agree with, and we would obviously covet all future draft picks.

But we do have PP and KG and we have maybe a 2 year window. (This window thing is extended so far to be ridiculous but who knew KG was eternal?) And because of that window, AND how much worse we still are without KG on the court, the future is still now. So almost everyone is up for grabs. Having said that, I feel the only players who should be untradeable are PP, KG, Bradley, and Sullinger. Rondo is nearly untradeable but Id still take Paul for him, or some other otherworldy package.

I don't know Bradley's upside. Frankly, I think its higher than Joe Dumars. Its Joe Dumars as the greatest on ball defender in NBA history. Thats the upside. a 6'2" Jordan on D, and Dumars on offense or better

Not trading that.

Sullinger is a bigger Paul Silas with a nastier attitude. I don't know what to compare him to more recently. A relatively earth bound guy who is probably actually almost 6'10' and has really long arms and very wide and positions himself perfectly at all times? A smaller Kevin Love? In any case, no way I let him go either.

Rondo? Rondo has barely played with the other young guys. Its absurdly short sighted not give him run with Sully, Bradley, and perhaps Lee, and Green and Melo

Bass isn't old either. We have a good young core and we best be really careful if we are going to shake that up.

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Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2013, 12:57:29 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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What do you guys think Sully's attitudes are towards the walls of heartache?

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Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2013, 01:20:42 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Others commented on his the detrimental aspects of his size - finishing around the rim and guarding the post, specifically. These are the two areas I am most impressed by. He has shown to be a great finisher around the rim, despite size, and he beats people to their spots in the post. He plays FAR BIGGER than his size at 6'9", despite the lack of athleticism that others suggested impact his game otherwise. If healthy, he will be a borderline all-star for many years, if placed in the right situation...

Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2013, 01:30:20 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.

Just an aside, but the 20/10 milestone is pretty tough to achieve.  Currently, not a single player in the NBA is averaging 20/10, although David Lee comes close (19.9 / 10.9).

In fact, only six guys are averaging as many as 17 points and 8.5 rebounds:

Link.

I was pretty surprised by that.

That is surprising. How many 20 and 10 guys were there in 2007? 5?

KG, Duncan, Boozer..Big Al had it in 08..

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Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2013, 01:38:00 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"

TP!

Outstanding point and I can't possibly agree with you more.

We did the same thing when we left off Al and GG for Garnett though, or when we traded the pick for Ray Allen.

Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it don't.

Kg was a sure fire hall of famer and ray was an all-star. Tony delk, Rodney Rogers, and even Kenny Anderson at that point not so much.

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Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2013, 01:47:28 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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im sure we all regret how the C's traded Joe johnson/Chauncey billups for what at the time were "help for now"

TP!

Outstanding point and I can't possibly agree with you more.

We did the same thing when we left off Al and GG for Garnett though, or when we traded the pick for Ray Allen.

Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it don't.

Kg was a sure fire hall of famer and ray was an all-star. Tony delk, Rodney Rogers, and even Kenny Anderson at that point not so much.

True. But Al Jefferson and Gerald Green were the most promising prospects in how long?

Just sayin, trading prospects for matured talent is a risky game on both sides.

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Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #87 on: January 09, 2013, 02:45:44 AM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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In the post game interview Doc said sully's a warrior and not going anywhere....

I love sully , but would trade him for gortat or varajaeo

Thoughts?

for Gortat or Varejao No way. For Cousins yes.

I'd move Sully for Varejao in a heart beat.  He'd make us immediate top-tier contenders.  A mobile, excellent defender who can play both front court positions and who is an elite rebounder?  That's exactly what this team needs.

Gortat isn't as good as Varejao, but I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal, too.  Sully's play lately has made me hesitate on that more than I would have a couple of weeks ago, though.

Agreed. Sully is improving past, but there is a ceiling for undersized play under the rim big man. He is a warrior, but Gortat/Varejao/Cousins are better players than Sully ever can be.
There is no way you could possibly know that . With his natural talent, work ethic, and willingness to learn, I could definitely see him being as good or better than all you listed.

Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #88 on: January 09, 2013, 06:37:56 AM »

Offline mctyson

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I don't get the common refrain that Sully is "undersized."  Yes, he is undersized for a CENTER.  But he is a prototypical NBA power forward.
He's not undersized. He's just not particularly long or athletic, so he plays smaller than his size.

I just think this is factually untrue.  His standing reach is roughly the same as Moultrie's or Thomas Robinson's, and only 2 inches shorter than Anthony Davis.  I bet no one would ever claim these 3 are undersized (maybe Robinson).

Add in the fact that he is BIGGER than almost everyone from the draft class of 2012, in that he weighs around 265, and I would argue that he actually plays BIGGER than his size, which is about 6'9" in shoes.

I just think that a lot of NBA teams screwed themselves over-analyzing this kid when it was clear as day he had a ton of skill and game and had the perfect body for an NBA bruising PF.

Re: Doc: Sully is a warrior, he's going nowhere....
« Reply #89 on: January 09, 2013, 07:08:49 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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What makes Sully special, at whatever level he evenatually achieves, which I do think will be a 20/10 guy, is that it's a big mistake to look at a guy with his mentality and say he's too short or too slow, he can't do that.

Just an aside, but the 20/10 milestone is pretty tough to achieve.  Currently, not a single player in the NBA is averaging 20/10, although David Lee comes close (19.9 / 10.9).

In fact, only six guys are averaging as many as 17 points and 8.5 rebounds:

Link.

I was pretty surprised by that.

Tp....good stat...not many scoring big bodies left in the nba....


By the way what's up with your tp count? I haven't been here in a while!

 

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