Author Topic: The Heat to work out the Birdman  (Read 1158 times)

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Offline j804

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The Heat to work out the Birdman
« on: January 07, 2013, 03:04:28 PM »
So I guess he was available afterall  :o

http://tinyurl.com/a5cl2zf


Online Roy H.

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 03:07:25 PM »
Andersen seemed like such an obvious signing for us.  He would have fit our defense perfectly, and we really could have used his rebounding.

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Offline ssspence

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 03:09:19 PM »
I've had the feeling his off-the-court activities made the Cs less interested than in years past, but who knows...


Offline Chris

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 03:09:54 PM »
Andersen seemed like such an obvious signing for us.  He would have fit our defense perfectly, and we really could have used his rebounding.

I think a lot of teams could have used what he gave Denver a few years ago.  Which leads me to the conclusion that one of two things are wrong.

1. he is still an issue in the lockerroom (drugs, etc.)
or
2. he just isn't the athlete he used to be, which makes him pretty useless, since his whole game was based around his athleticism. 

Offline CelticG1

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 03:12:59 PM »
Is he really that great a rebounder/defender? I guess i never saw him get pt.


The real person we could use is Kenyon Martin. Played pretty well for the clips last year and got there halfway through the season.

Can still rebound and defend, and definitely adds toughness/intensity

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 03:15:18 PM »
Andersen seemed like such an obvious signing for us.  He would have fit our defense perfectly, and we really could have used his rebounding.

I think a lot of teams could have used what he gave Denver a few years ago.  Which leads me to the conclusion that one of two things are wrong.

1. he is still an issue in the lockerroom (drugs, etc.)
or
2. he just isn't the athlete he used to be, which makes him pretty useless, since his whole game was based around his athleticism.

I haven't heard anything negative about him as a teammate, and even last year he was effective on defense and in terms of rebounding.

I think the big issues are the investigation regarding nude photos of an underage girl, and his bad back.  The injury concerns are the only legitimate (non-PR) reason not to sign Andersen.  Even then, I'd rather have Andersen every other game than Jason Collins full-time.

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 03:18:31 PM »
Is he really that great a rebounder/defender? I guess i never saw him get pt.


The real person we could use is Kenyon Martin. Played pretty well for the clips last year and got there halfway through the season.

Can still rebound and defend, and definitely adds toughness/intensity

Here's a post I made comparing Andersen and Collins:

I would have preferred Chris Andersen.

Rebounding:


Birdman:  11.9% Offensive Rebound Rate; 23.3% Defensive Rebound Rate; 17.8% Total Rebound Rate
Collins: 4.6% Offensive Rebound Rate; 13.6% Defensive Rebound Rate; 9.1% Total Rebound Rate

Compared to last year's Celtics team, Andersen would have been our best rebounder by a fairly large margin (KG's TRB% was 16.8%).  Andersen would have been our best offensive rebounder, as well, and would have been second only to KG in defensive boards.  Compared to Collins, Andersen is literally twice the rebounder that he is.  Collins' rebound percentage would have been 9th on the Celtics, virtually tied with Paul Pierce. 

In other words, Andersen is an excellent rebounder, and Collins is very, very bad.

Offense:

Birdman:  12.4 points per 36 minutes; 0.4 assists per 36 minutes; 1.3 turnovers per 36 minutes; 54.6% FG%; 61.0% FT%; Offensive Rating:  119 (!!)
Collins:  4.6 points per 36 minutes; 1.2 assists per 36 minutes; 1.2 turnovers per 36 minutes; 40.0% FG%; 46.7% FT%; Offensive Rating:  87 (!!)

There's no comparison on this end of the floor.  Andersen is a much better scorer, and a much more efficient scorer.  Collins does average more assists, but his turnover rate (rather than raw turnovers) is much worse:  17.7% vs. 10.6%.

Defense:

Birdman:  3.4 blocks per 36 minutes; 1.4 steals per 36 minutes; Defensive Rating: 99
Collins:  0.4 blocks per 36 minutes; 0.5 steals per 36 minutes; Defensive Rating: 104

Birdman:  0.74 points allowed per possession (40th overall); 0.79 points allowed per possession allowed on post-ups (103rd overall)
Collins:  0.78 points allowed per possession (75th overall); 0.84 points allowed per possession allowed on post-ups (143rd overall)

Statistically, Birdman's defense was better than Collins.

Intangibles:

Andersen is known to be a great teammate.  He's a high-energy player and a crowd favorite.  On the negative side, he's been injured for parts of the last two seasons, and he was the subject of a criminal investigation involving photographs of an underage girl (while his lawyer says he was the victim of an extortion attempt by that girl -- who claimed she was 21 -- and her mother.)  Andersen also has a history of hardcore drug use, but seems to have kicked the habit.

Collins is also known as a great teammate, and he willingly fills his role.  He's more likely to rack up DNP-CDs than he is to miss games due to injuries.

Overall:

It's hard to argue that Collins is in the same class as Andersen as a player.  Collins is healthier and has fewer question marks, but he's also an inferior player.

Andersen's rebounding was much better than Kmart's last year.  Martin's TRB% was a fairly paltry 11.5%.

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Offline j804

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 03:27:43 PM »
Nice breakdown Roy, I thought Anderson could have helped us as well and wouldn't be too big a personality as long as his legal stuff was settled.


Offline CelticG1

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2013, 03:27:55 PM »
Is he really that great a rebounder/defender? I guess i never saw him get pt.


The real person we could use is Kenyon Martin. Played pretty well for the clips last year and got there halfway through the season.

Can still rebound and defend, and definitely adds toughness/intensity

Here's a post I made comparing Andersen and Collins:

I would have preferred Chris Andersen.

Rebounding:


Birdman:  11.9% Offensive Rebound Rate; 23.3% Defensive Rebound Rate; 17.8% Total Rebound Rate
Collins: 4.6% Offensive Rebound Rate; 13.6% Defensive Rebound Rate; 9.1% Total Rebound Rate

Compared to last year's Celtics team, Andersen would have been our best rebounder by a fairly large margin (KG's TRB% was 16.8%).  Andersen would have been our best offensive rebounder, as well, and would have been second only to KG in defensive boards.  Compared to Collins, Andersen is literally twice the rebounder that he is.  Collins' rebound percentage would have been 9th on the Celtics, virtually tied with Paul Pierce. 

In other words, Andersen is an excellent rebounder, and Collins is very, very bad.

Offense:

Birdman:  12.4 points per 36 minutes; 0.4 assists per 36 minutes; 1.3 turnovers per 36 minutes; 54.6% FG%; 61.0% FT%; Offensive Rating:  119 (!!)
Collins:  4.6 points per 36 minutes; 1.2 assists per 36 minutes; 1.2 turnovers per 36 minutes; 40.0% FG%; 46.7% FT%; Offensive Rating:  87 (!!)

There's no comparison on this end of the floor.  Andersen is a much better scorer, and a much more efficient scorer.  Collins does average more assists, but his turnover rate (rather than raw turnovers) is much worse:  17.7% vs. 10.6%.

Defense:

Birdman:  3.4 blocks per 36 minutes; 1.4 steals per 36 minutes; Defensive Rating: 99
Collins:  0.4 blocks per 36 minutes; 0.5 steals per 36 minutes; Defensive Rating: 104

Birdman:  0.74 points allowed per possession (40th overall); 0.79 points allowed per possession allowed on post-ups (103rd overall)
Collins:  0.78 points allowed per possession (75th overall); 0.84 points allowed per possession allowed on post-ups (143rd overall)

Statistically, Birdman's defense was better than Collins.

Intangibles:

Andersen is known to be a great teammate.  He's a high-energy player and a crowd favorite.  On the negative side, he's been injured for parts of the last two seasons, and he was the subject of a criminal investigation involving photographs of an underage girl (while his lawyer says he was the victim of an extortion attempt by that girl -- who claimed she was 21 -- and her mother.)  Andersen also has a history of hardcore drug use, but seems to have kicked the habit.

Collins is also known as a great teammate, and he willingly fills his role.  He's more likely to rack up DNP-CDs than he is to miss games due to injuries.

Overall:

It's hard to argue that Collins is in the same class as Andersen as a player.  Collins is healthier and has fewer question marks, but he's also an inferior player.

Andersen's rebounding was much better than Kmart's last year.  Martin's TRB% was a fairly paltry 11.5%.

Yeah I mean its kind of unfair to compare Collins to anyone in the NBA at anything as he will get squashed.

I guess I just see Kmart as a reliable playoff performer, someone who you know what you will get and the type of person you want scrapping with Chandler, Rasheed, Haslem, Evans types.

Admiteddly I haven't seen a ton of Birdman but is he someone you want to go to war with in the playoffs?

Offline csfansince60s

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2013, 04:12:13 PM »
KMart and the cHeat were supposed to have "begun talks" last week, whatever that means.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1223059

I wonder if he did and how that worked out? Anyone else hear of this?

No source given in the referenced post, but I think that if it had happened that we would've heard about it.

Offline Snakehead

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 04:48:43 PM »
I really hope they don't get him and we do.  I've been waiting to hear talk of us trying to sign him.

He's a very solid player.  Basically addresses all of our issues (good rebounder, runs the floor and scores garbage buckets, protects the rim and plays strong help defense).

He would basically be, in role, an upgrade in scoring and rebounding to what Steimsma was last year.

5 pts/ 5 reb/ 1 block per 15 mins are solid numbers.


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Offline j804

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Re: The Heat to work out the Birdman
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 04:58:59 PM »
Is he really that great a rebounder/defender? I guess i never saw him get pt.


The real person we could use is Kenyon Martin. Played pretty well for the clips last year and got there halfway through the season.

Can still rebound and defend, and definitely adds toughness/intensity

Here's a post I made comparing Andersen and Collins:

I would have preferred Chris Andersen.

Rebounding:


Birdman:  11.9% Offensive Rebound Rate; 23.3% Defensive Rebound Rate; 17.8% Total Rebound Rate
Collins: 4.6% Offensive Rebound Rate; 13.6% Defensive Rebound Rate; 9.1% Total Rebound Rate

Compared to last year's Celtics team, Andersen would have been our best rebounder by a fairly large margin (KG's TRB% was 16.8%).  Andersen would have been our best offensive rebounder, as well, and would have been second only to KG in defensive boards.  Compared to Collins, Andersen is literally twice the rebounder that he is.  Collins' rebound percentage would have been 9th on the Celtics, virtually tied with Paul Pierce. 

In other words, Andersen is an excellent rebounder, and Collins is very, very bad.

Offense:

Birdman:  12.4 points per 36 minutes; 0.4 assists per 36 minutes; 1.3 turnovers per 36 minutes; 54.6% FG%; 61.0% FT%; Offensive Rating:  119 (!!)
Collins:  4.6 points per 36 minutes; 1.2 assists per 36 minutes; 1.2 turnovers per 36 minutes; 40.0% FG%; 46.7% FT%; Offensive Rating:  87 (!!)

There's no comparison on this end of the floor.  Andersen is a much better scorer, and a much more efficient scorer.  Collins does average more assists, but his turnover rate (rather than raw turnovers) is much worse:  17.7% vs. 10.6%.

Defense:

Birdman:  3.4 blocks per 36 minutes; 1.4 steals per 36 minutes; Defensive Rating: 99
Collins:  0.4 blocks per 36 minutes; 0.5 steals per 36 minutes; Defensive Rating: 104

Birdman:  0.74 points allowed per possession (40th overall); 0.79 points allowed per possession allowed on post-ups (103rd overall)
Collins:  0.78 points allowed per possession (75th overall); 0.84 points allowed per possession allowed on post-ups (143rd overall)

Statistically, Birdman's defense was better than Collins.

Intangibles:

Andersen is known to be a great teammate.  He's a high-energy player and a crowd favorite.  On the negative side, he's been injured for parts of the last two seasons, and he was the subject of a criminal investigation involving photographs of an underage girl (while his lawyer says he was the victim of an extortion attempt by that girl -- who claimed she was 21 -- and her mother.)  Andersen also has a history of hardcore drug use, but seems to have kicked the habit.

Collins is also known as a great teammate, and he willingly fills his role.  He's more likely to rack up DNP-CDs than he is to miss games due to injuries.

Overall:

It's hard to argue that Collins is in the same class as Andersen as a player.  Collins is healthier and has fewer question marks, but he's also an inferior player.

Andersen's rebounding was much better than Kmart's last year.  Martin's TRB% was a fairly paltry 11.5%.

Yeah I mean its kind of unfair to compare Collins to anyone in the NBA at anything as he will get squashed.

I guess I just see Kmart as a reliable playoff performer, someone who you know what you will get and the type of person you want scrapping with Chandler, Rasheed, Haslem, Evans types.

Admiteddly I haven't seen a ton of Birdman but is he someone you want to go to war with in the playoffs?
He's not a bad tough guy like K Mart but he's not scared to give hard fouls