Author Topic: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back  (Read 2978 times)

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Offline Neurotic Guy

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 04:16:48 PM »
Once again, we were a top defensive team in 2008 (NBA title) 2010 (NBA finals) and 2012 (ECF) all without Bradley, all with Ray Allen in his place. How can you honestly believe that Bradley is that big of a difference? Have you watched this team the last 5 years?

Other than 2008 when they played at a top level all through the season, they have basically gone on autopilot every year since, and then turn it on halfway through, because they know they can, and because it takes too much out of them to do it every night. It also takes forever to get new guys to learn the system. It is what it is. Bradley is great, I'm glad we have him. But he's not the difference maker you guys believe him to be.

The only point when he might be that difference maker is if we play the heat again in the playoffs and he can actually shut down Wade though. We then have to hope that Green can do a decent job on Lebron.

Not sure if the point is whether Bradley is making this a capable defensive team or if Bradley is energizing this team to achieve its potential.  Either way, Bradley seems to be making a difference.

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 04:17:07 PM »
it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.

Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.

so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?

sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.

Thank you. Someone displaying some common sense on this topic. That's all I've been trying to say.

If this is common sense then you are right, I don't have it. We aren't talking about the team's before AB because (what seems like common sense to me), we had other guys who were energy guys and who played great defense on those teams! We are talking about THIS team/players, they didn't have what AB brings w/o him, now they do with him, so it makes them better! I mean, if you don't get that, that's fine...

THIS team was not playing this type of defense w/o him!

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Offline j804

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 04:23:13 PM »
it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.

Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.

so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?

sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.

It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned.  Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
He's helped this team defensively and everybody to finally get comfortable in their roles tremendously. Yes defense has always been our bread and butter but if you look years back on our title run we were younger. We also had Tony who is similar to what Avery Bradley now gives us. If you think he isn't a HUGE reason why our defense has been better these past few games then you're foolish. Doc/Paul/KG/Rondo have all said how big a difference he makes. I'll go with them and from what the eye test and numbers so far tell me.


Offline hpantazo

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 04:26:20 PM »
it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.

Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.

so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?

sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.

It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned.  Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
He's helped this team defensively and everybody to finally get comfortable in their roles tremendously. Yes defense has always been our bread and butter but if you look years back on our title run we were younger. We also had Tony who is similar to what Avery Bradley now gives us. If you think he isn't a HUGE reason why our defense has been better these past few games then you're foolish. Doc/Paul/KG/Rondo have all said how big a difference he makes. I'll go with them and from what the eye test and numbers so far tell me.

so he's a coach now too?

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 04:27:28 PM »
it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.

Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.

so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?

sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.

you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.


So I guess that Doc AND the players see it differently than you do (watch any interview after these games). Yes, it's a team effort, not one player can/should be given all the credit but Avery is a HUGE key in what makes the team better defensively... what he does has a trickle down effect. How many new players do the NYK and ATL have this season...  can't remember how many new players the NYK have but it's quite a few, the Hawks have NINE new players, funny how they manage to play well this season and gel as a team. You keep fooling yourself into believe AB isn't a catalyst for the improved defense and I will just keep listening to Doc and the players! Doc said he told RR and AB last night that they can be the best 2 guards on defense and that they should go out there and prove it (something along those lines), AB and RR came out and shut Teague and Williams down, they pressured the ball non-stop, that in turn caused everyone else to step their games up! How many times does PP and the guys have to say that AB is the best on ball defender and that his effort is so great that it gives a boost to everyone else? So you're going to really use AB's first game back after not playing for months to say that he isn't a big reason the team's D has gone from nonexistent to one of the best? Really? Okay, I tell you what if our D doesn't continue to be improved from the first 30 games, with AB, then I will come in here and say, "you were right, AB was not the biggest reason for the turnaround". I'm not talking wins or loses but just the defense (but with better defense more wins should come... not all wins but more for sure). 30 games is the magic number for new guys to come together, nope, it's not Bradley... the other people on the team are just crazy...  ::)

I suppose we should be able to trade him for Dwight Howard then if everything you believe it true  ::)

Our defense was great against the heat in the ECF last year WITHOUT Bradley. Our defense was great when we went 7 games with the lakers in the NBA Finals WITHOUT Bradley, and of course, our defense was great in 2008 WITHOUT Bradley.

All of those games had Ray Allen in the lineup instead. Was Ray a defensive monster? Did I miss that?

Point is, it's our team trusting in the defense, not a magical effect of an undersized SG.

It's sad that you discount all the other players those teams had besides Ray Allen that aren't on this team today... 0.0

You are the type of person who thinks that stars win these chips pretty much on their own.

I mean, it worked so well for Lebron and Jordan (etc.)... oh wait, they needed the other players to step up and do their jobs so that they could win? nope, Pippen wasn't needed, no Wade/Bosh were scrubs too. 0.0

I think you and your friend are missing the point, no one is saying it's ALL AB, we are saying that he is a very big piece to the puzzle! AGAIN, this isn't just us, this is THE ORGANIZATION saying it!
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Offline hpantazo

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 04:27:51 PM »
it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.

Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.

so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?

sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.

Thank you. Someone displaying some common sense on this topic. That's all I've been trying to say.

If this is common sense then you are right, I don't have it. We aren't talking about the team's before AB because (what seems like common sense to me), we had other guys who were energy guys and who played great defense on those teams! We are talking about THIS team/players, they didn't have what AB brings w/o him, now they do with him, so it makes them better! I mean, if you don't get that, that's fine...

THIS team was not playing this type of defense w/o him!

This team did play this type of defense without him during the ECF last year against the Heat.

Offline j804

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 04:29:10 PM »
it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.

Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.

so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?

sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.

It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned.  Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
He's helped this team defensively and everybody to finally get comfortable in their roles tremendously. Yes defense has always been our bread and butter but if you look years back on our title run we were younger. We also had Tony who is similar to what Avery Bradley now gives us. If you think he isn't a HUGE reason why our defense has been better these past few games then you're foolish. Doc/Paul/KG/Rondo have all said how big a difference he makes. I'll go with them and from what the eye test and numbers so far tell me.

so he's a coach now too?
Do you now know what I meant by that? Him being in the starting lineup now?!? You're just being stupid and trying to argue to just to argue now by disregarding everything else I said


Offline hpantazo

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2013, 04:30:25 PM »
it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.

Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.

so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?

sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.

you keep trying to create some image of Bradley that doesn't reflect reality. If you really want to believe that, good for you, but it there are 9 new players on this team from last year's team. You cannot compare the two teams, and you have to realize it takes a lot to get so many players to learn a complex defensive system and trust in each other and their coach. Give Doc and the players credit.


So I guess that Doc AND the players see it differently than you do (watch any interview after these games). Yes, it's a team effort, not one player can/should be given all the credit but Avery is a HUGE key in what makes the team better defensively... what he does has a trickle down effect. How many new players do the NYK and ATL have this season...  can't remember how many new players the NYK have but it's quite a few, the Hawks have NINE new players, funny how they manage to play well this season and gel as a team. You keep fooling yourself into believe AB isn't a catalyst for the improved defense and I will just keep listening to Doc and the players! Doc said he told RR and AB last night that they can be the best 2 guards on defense and that they should go out there and prove it (something along those lines), AB and RR came out and shut Teague and Williams down, they pressured the ball non-stop, that in turn caused everyone else to step their games up! How many times does PP and the guys have to say that AB is the best on ball defender and that his effort is so great that it gives a boost to everyone else? So you're going to really use AB's first game back after not playing for months to say that he isn't a big reason the team's D has gone from nonexistent to one of the best? Really? Okay, I tell you what if our D doesn't continue to be improved from the first 30 games, with AB, then I will come in here and say, "you were right, AB was not the biggest reason for the turnaround". I'm not talking wins or loses but just the defense (but with better defense more wins should come... not all wins but more for sure). 30 games is the magic number for new guys to come together, nope, it's not Bradley... the other people on the team are just crazy...  ::)

I suppose we should be able to trade him for Dwight Howard then if everything you believe it true  ::)

Our defense was great against the heat in the ECF last year WITHOUT Bradley. Our defense was great when we went 7 games with the lakers in the NBA Finals WITHOUT Bradley, and of course, our defense was great in 2008 WITHOUT Bradley.

All of those games had Ray Allen in the lineup instead. Was Ray a defensive monster? Did I miss that?

Point is, it's our team trusting in the defense, not a magical effect of an undersized SG.

It's sad that you discount all the other players those teams had besides Ray Allen that aren't on this team today... 0.0

You are the type of person who thinks that stars win these chips pretty much on their own.

I mean, it worked so well for Lebron and Jordan (etc.)... oh wait, they needed the other players to step up and do their jobs so that they could win? nope, Pippen wasn't needed, no Wade/Bosh were scrubs too. 0.0

I think you and your friend are missing the point, no one is saying it's ALL AB, we are saying that he is a very big piece to the puzzle! AGAIN, this isn't just us, this is THE ORGANIZATION saying it!

You misunderstood. I'm in no way discounting the other players on the team, I'm saying it's the other players that deserve credit! Ray Allen is a terrible defender, and yet our team defense was outstanding with him. It was everyone on those teams working together. It's not about superstars, but yet some people think Bradley is some defensive Bill Russell type of superstar that single handedly trasforms our team from the worst defense to the best.

Offline hpantazo

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2013, 04:32:27 PM »
it hasn't been Bradley, it's been the entire team coming together and beginning to understand the defense, trust each other, and give a full effort. Washburn's articles have documented this quite well recently. I'm glad Bradley's back, but he has struggled so far, as expected considering all the time he missed. He looks mediocre at the moment.

Give credit where it's due, to the celtics players finally beginning to trust in Doc and the defensive system.

so, the past 2 years its just been a "coincidence" that when bradley starts we play better defense?

sure hes struggled offensively. but I havent seen anything defensively to show me hes struggling there.
We were one of the best defensive teams in the entire NBA before Bradley was even drafted. That's no coincidence.

It's definitely more than a coincidence that the team is defending better and playing harder since Bradley returned.  Even if you don't think Bradley is playing well, you've got to acknowledge that his presence and supply of energy has had a positive effect on his teammates.
He's helped this team defensively and everybody to finally get comfortable in their roles tremendously. Yes defense has always been our bread and butter but if you look years back on our title run we were younger. We also had Tony who is similar to what Avery Bradley now gives us. If you think he isn't a HUGE reason why our defense has been better these past few games then you're foolish. Doc/Paul/KG/Rondo have all said how big a difference he makes. I'll go with them and from what the eye test and numbers so far tell me.

so he's a coach now too?
Do you now know what I meant by that? Him being in the starting lineup now?!? You're just being stupid and trying to argue to just to argue now by disregarding everything else I said

So when we had a hobbled Ray Allen in the starting lineup during the EFCs last year and had outstanding team defense, does that mean Ray Allen's defense on a bad ankle was so great that it caused us to become a defensive juggernaut instead of a poor defensive team?

Offline nickagneta

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2013, 04:35:56 PM »
Team defense takes a team effort and so everyone giving a better defensive effort over the last three games deserves the credit for the turnaround.

But seeing AB taking the toughest guard as his defensive assignment and putting shut down defense on that player must be inspiring to the rest of his team mates and so I think its not going to hurt to say that his return might have sparked something in the team to perform better as a whole.
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Offline cman88

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2013, 04:37:10 PM »
using ray allen in the playoffs isnt the best argument...because even while we still played solid defense, the stats from the playoffs show that defensively we were better defensively before bradley went out

Offline hpantazo

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2013, 04:42:01 PM »
using ray allen in the playoffs isnt the best argument...because even while we still played solid defense, the stats from the playoffs show that defensively we were better defensively before bradley went out

Of course we were better defensively with Bradley instead of Ray. The point is though that the difference was not very big. We were still a great defensive team with Ray instead of Bradley, and took the eventual champs to within 5 minutes of beating them in game 7 of the ECFs based heavily on our defense. We didn't need Bradley chasing down Wade to inspire the rest of the team to play defense, they did it anyway. We didn't need Bradley to make our players understand the rotations and trust each other, they did it without him. That's the point of the argument.

Offline j804

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2013, 04:44:00 PM »
Team defense takes a team effort and so everyone giving a better defensive effort over the last three games deserves the credit for the turnaround.

But seeing AB taking the toughest guard as his defensive assignment and putting shut down defense on that player must be inspiring to the rest of his team mates and so I think its not going to hurt to say that his return might have sparked something in the team to perform better as a whole.
This is all people are saying his defense is HUGE for us and he changes the game on that end, comparing us to other teams of the past or Ray or whatever makes no sense. Doc has said this much all of his teammates have said this much hell even Wade and LeBron have said were a different team with AB but no hpantazo knows better I'm done. Rofl


Offline hpantazo

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2013, 04:47:23 PM »
Team defense takes a team effort and so everyone giving a better defensive effort over the last three games deserves the credit for the turnaround.

But seeing AB taking the toughest guard as his defensive assignment and putting shut down defense on that player must be inspiring to the rest of his team mates and so I think its not going to hurt to say that his return might have sparked something in the team to perform better as a whole.
This is all people are saying his defense is HUGE for us and he changes the game on that end, comparing us to other teams of the past or Ray or whatever makes no sense. Doc has said this much all of his teammates have said this much hell even Wade and LeBron have said were a different team with AB but no hpantazo knows better I'm done. Rofl

So with your logic if we put Bradley on the Kings they will become a defensive monster because Doc and Rondo said he's a great defender? LOL

I still have not seen an explanation of why our team defense was great even with Ray when Bradley was out.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 04:56:16 PM by hpantazo »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Re: C's defensive numbers since Bradley came back
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2013, 04:47:31 PM »
Team defense takes a team effort and so everyone giving a better defensive effort over the last three games deserves the credit for the turnaround.

But seeing AB taking the toughest guard as his defensive assignment and putting shut down defense on that player must be inspiring to the rest of his team mates and so I think its not going to hurt to say that his return might have sparked something in the team to perform better as a whole.
This is all people are saying his defense is HUGE for us and he changes the game on that end, comparing us to other teams of the past or Ray or whatever makes no sense. Doc has said this much all of our teammates have said this much hell even Wade and LeBron have said were a different team with AB but no hpantazo knows better I'm done. Rofl

I'm going to give you you're tp and I'm done... because I don't care that they discount what I say but if they aren't going to believe the people who know best (the team), then there is nothing more we can argue.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

 

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