Poll

Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?

Yes
40 (60.6%)
No
26 (39.4%)

Total Members Voted: 64

Author Topic: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?  (Read 11713 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2013, 11:33:36 AM »

Offline TheBig5

  • Jared Sullinger
  • Posts: 386
  • Tommy Points: 25
I wish we had resigned JG to a 1 year deal. Signing him for four was such a big mistake.

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2013, 11:49:27 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23478
  • Tommy Points: -29324
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season.

I'm not sure that this particular metric is all that useful.

Players on the Celtics with more turnovers than steals and blocks combined:

Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Jason Terry

Notable players league-wide with more turnovers than steals and blocks combined:

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Russell Westrbook
Kobe Bryant
Deron Williams
Steph Curry
James Harden


In fact, Jeff Green's roughly 1:1 ratio is better than all of the above guys.  That's not to say that he's amazing player.  Rather, that particular stat just doesn't tell us very much at all.


D. Cousins / I. Mahinmi / P. Antic
D. West / R. Anderson / C. Copeland
L. Deng / K. Singler / D. Rudez
A. Iguodala / V. Carter / B. Gordon / C.J. Wilcox
K. Irving / S. Livingston / S. Blake

Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2013, 11:51:50 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11066
  • Tommy Points: 2156
I just think, sadly, that some of us are ate up about his contract and all.

Just remember this post - "When Paul Pierce needs a few games off for rest/injury, etc - Jeff Green's signing will be more than worth it."

I'm confident of that.

I'm excited to see him playing significant minutes next to Rondo and AB in the future.

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2013, 12:27:16 PM »

Offline gar

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2584
  • Tommy Points: 245
  • Strength from Within
Right now Jeff Green is not a starting player in the NBA (unless he is playing next to Kevin Durant). He could be a decent role player, but sadly he does not have the coordination and Bball IQ to create on his own. He can jump high and run fast but this does not make him a first class athelete. "athleticism" is overrated by some.

I think Courtney Lee has a higher ceiling undfortunately.

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2013, 12:48:42 PM »

Offline cman88

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2752
  • Tommy Points: 196
I look at the acquisition of Jeff Green in two parts...I dont think we'll see his true value until the playoffs/in the future.

1. we have Kevin Garnett for the next 3 years..meaning likely we go with Pierce for those as well unless he retires. surely Pierce is going to need his minutes scaled back. and that requires a solid backup.

2. for the Knicks/Miami's who love to play small-ball with Melo/Lebron at the 4. it was clear last year that Pietrus wasnt cutting it...if he can improve as a defender(and it seems he has). you can stick him on Melo/Lebron..which means Pierce can focus more energy on offense(and Green provides more offense than a pietrus)


either way, we are in "Win-now" mode so I dont see the big deal about green's contract. and I would think if we want to Ainge could trade him...a 26Y/o SF who can average 15ppg given starting minutes? theres teams who will want that.

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #65 on: January 05, 2013, 12:51:29 PM »

Offline ManUp

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7935
  • Tommy Points: 225
  • Rondo doesn't believe in easy buckets...
He  is decent. The real question is "Will Green ever be worth his new 4 year, 45 Million Dollar, contract?" My answer is no. I did a great job of rationalizing the new contract and pumping my self up over the off-season, but now that the games are being played it's pretty clear he's the same player he's always been. If Paul Pierce's footwork, and craftiness was easily duplicated he wouldn't be such a special player. It doesn't matter if you have the tools if you don't know how to use them. Green is just one of those guys. IMO, the best thing we can do is trade him for some smaller/shorter more reasonable contracts. I truly do hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't think I will be.

$36m

OMG. What if we owed him $45m.... My whole life flashed before my eyes.

Thanks for the correction. I was thinking 5 years 9 mil, but put the wrong amount of years. He's still not work the contract either way.

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2013, 12:51:42 PM »

Offline badshar

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 576
  • Tommy Points: 67
Yes, yes I do. I also want to tell you that your thread backfired real bad because more than half the people voted yes...

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #67 on: January 05, 2013, 12:57:22 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • NCE
  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9398
  • Tommy Points: 487
I look at the acquisition of Jeff Green in two parts...I dont think we'll see his true value until the playoffs/in the future.

1. we have Kevin Garnett for the next 3 years..meaning likely we go with Pierce for those as well unless he retires. surely Pierce is going to need his minutes scaled back. and that requires a solid backup.

2. for the Knicks/Miami's who love to play small-ball with Melo/Lebron at the 4. it was clear last year that Pietrus wasnt cutting it...if he can improve as a defender(and it seems he has). you can stick him on Melo/Lebron..which means Pierce can focus more energy on offense(and Green provides more offense than a pietrus)


either way, we are in "Win-now" mode so I dont see the big deal about green's contract. and I would think if we want to Ainge could trade him...a 26Y/o SF who can average 15ppg given starting minutes? theres teams who will want that.


I agree with this post... Green is slowly putting together a decent game. I was impatient too, I've come to realize , this health issues and now mental issues of getting over his heart issue is a major hurtle or more than we fans can appreciate. I'm sure its hard to play with reckless abandon when you've been though all that.  Hoping by playoffs he can be counted on to contribute more and more steady.  Still a better deal than Royce White.


Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2013, 01:07:04 PM »

Offline gar

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2584
  • Tommy Points: 245
  • Strength from Within
Green is playing decent Defense and I agree that it is critical for the C's to have someone like him in their lineup for all the big wings in the league (Lebron, Carmelo, Durant).

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2013, 01:19:10 PM »

Offline vinnie

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8372
  • Tommy Points: 394
Just to give people some perspective, because everyone here is just throwing around vague qualifiers like "decent" and "good" and "talented" without backing them up, here are some Jeff Green facts on the season.

-He is a bad rebounder. You can argue it is improving, but it is still bad. His rebounding percentage is HALF the league average for small forwards. 6 per 48 instead of 11 per 48.

-He turns the ball over too much. He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season. Hell, he has more turnovers than assists and steals combined for the season. That is not acceptable.

-The turnover numbers are even more startling when you realize that Jeff Green is actually a good defender, as other people in this thread have noted. He is getting a good number of steals and blocks (yes, his per game averages are low, because he doesn't play a lot of minutes. If you adjust for minutes played, he is getting steals and blocks at an above average rate). He also doesn't foul that much. So he is a good defender.

-He is not passing well. He has never been a great passer, but he has usually been at least average in terms of assist ratio and percentage. This season he is pretty abysmal. He is getting 0.8 assists per game; if you adjust for minutes played, the league SF average for assists is 1.4. I know that isn't a huge difference, but considering that he is also averaging 1.4 turnovers per game WITHOUT adjusting for minutes you realize what the problem is.

-His shooting is terrible. A hair below 42% from the field, 33% from 3, and a TS% of 50.5%. The league average for small forwards in those categories? 47%, 35%, and 53%. Also, he only gets 1.13 PPS , well below the league average of 1.22.

-Although he is a very good free throw shooter, he doesn't get to the line very often. He is overing just around the league average in free throw attempts per game, and considering that so far free throws are the only way he can score efficiently he needs to draw more fouls.

This tells you all you need to know about Jeff Green. He is a 5-year guy who still has potential.

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2013, 01:58:59 PM »

Offline cltc5

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1713
  • Tommy Points: 116
Just to give people some perspective, because everyone here is just throwing around vague qualifiers like "decent" and "good" and "talented" without backing them up, here are some Jeff Green facts on the season.

-He is a bad rebounder. You can argue it is improving, but it is still bad. His rebounding percentage is HALF the league average for small forwards. 6 per 48 instead of 11 per 48.

-He turns the ball over too much. He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season. Hell, he has more turnovers than assists and steals combined for the season. That is not acceptable.

-The turnover numbers are even more startling when you realize that Jeff Green is actually a good defender, as other people in this thread have noted. He is getting a good number of steals and blocks (yes, his per game averages are low, because he doesn't play a lot of minutes. If you adjust for minutes played, he is getting steals and blocks at an above average rate). He also doesn't foul that much. So he is a good defender.

-He is not passing well. He has never been a great passer, but he has usually been at least average in terms of assist ratio and percentage. This season he is pretty abysmal. He is getting 0.8 assists per game; if you adjust for minutes played, the league SF average for assists is 1.4. I know that isn't a huge difference, but considering that he is also averaging 1.4 turnovers per game WITHOUT adjusting for minutes you realize what the problem is.

-His shooting is terrible. A hair below 42% from the field, 33% from 3, and a TS% of 50.5%. The league average for small forwards in those categories? 47%, 35%, and 53%. Also, he only gets 1.13 PPS , well below the league average of 1.22.

-Although he is a very good free throw shooter, he doesn't get to the line very often. He is overing just around the league average in free throw attempts per game, and considering that so far free throws are the only way he can score efficiently he needs to draw more fouls.

This tells you all you need to know about Jeff Green. He is a 5-year guy who still has potential.

And will still probably be full of potential when he leaves :-\.  Id like to see the JG from pre season show up, and i dont take this stuff about him needing to start.  WHen Jordan when out, it becasme Pippen's team.  Green could do the same thing and has shown flashes.  I dont know maybe he has attention problems and gets lost somewhere on the court.  Last night I think he was thinking about what they had at the concession stands all night long/

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2013, 03:51:28 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6971
  • Tommy Points: 916
There are folks here who still think GERALD Green has potential mostly because he's not currently a Celtic and because we didn't sign him to a bad contract . Give Jeff some credit -- he has proven himself a decent NBA player already. 

My wish is that he (and we) forget about the contract.  He is getting paid regardless of mpg, ppg, rpg, etc.  What I want him to do is to use Avery Bradley as a model.  Avery's approach is electric.  He is dedicated to giving 100% every time he is on the court, and his philosophy is right on target:  You will have off-games offensively but you do not EVER have to have an off-game defensively. 

If JG can focus on defensive effort and rebounds, his approach to the game will be different -- and I suspect less stressful. His game will be more under his control and his offense will happen when it happens.  And this is the team that he can do that on.  Can't if he's on the Suns or the Raptors. 

Green can reach his potential not through his offense but through his defense and aggresiveness on the boards.  He does seem a bit more active defensively now than earlier in the year -- but my thinking is that defense and boards should be his focus (boards as in 'strive for 5'). 


Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2013, 04:05:07 PM »

Offline OttawaCeltic

  • Jared Sullinger
  • Posts: 332
  • Tommy Points: 19
He has more turnovers than steals and blocks COMBINED for the season.

I'm not sure that this particular metric is all that useful.

Players on the Celtics with more turnovers than steals and blocks combined:

Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett
Rajon Rondo
Jason Terry

Notable players league-wide with more turnovers than steals and blocks combined:

Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Russell Westrbook
Kobe Bryant
Deron Williams
Steph Curry
James Harden


In fact, Jeff Green's roughly 1:1 ratio is better than all of the above guys.  That's not to say that he's amazing player.  Rather, that particular stat just doesn't tell us very much at all.

Roy just served that due NICELY with reality. Dumb down analyzers these days, smh
Jameer an elite PG?Please, ask that to his garbage highlights.



PAUL PIERCE, NO!

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2013, 05:47:59 PM »

Offline jyyzzoel

  • Jared Sullinger
  • Posts: 316
  • Tommy Points: 39
He's a solid player - he's not a star player, but he's solid.

He's starting to play some really decent defense, his rebounding is steady improving, and his effort is looking much better.

He's just not scoring a million points because he's not getting the plays called for him, but he'll settle in fine.

Worth the contact no, but he's solid.

actually, he's pretty much the worst small forward in the whole nba this season.

click on this link, and go all the way to the bottom.  who do you think has the 3rd worst wins per 48 for ALL small forwards?:  http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22

I strongly disagree, and I'm not too concerned with what that stat shows because of Green's role on the team.

To start the season his offense was terrible, his defense was terrible, and his effort was terrible.

At this point in the season his offense is still pretty poor overall, but his effort level, his defense and his rebounding have all improved.  If you watched today's game he didn't have a huge role in the offense so he didn't score a lot, but he played good defense and he had a couple of nice hustle plays. 

The only areas in Green's game that I'm concerned with at the moment are his ball handling and playmaking.  Especially ball handling, which he does really seem to lack confidence with.

Aside from that he is 5th on our team in scoring - after Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Terry, Green is the only other player averaging up around double figures (9.6 PPG).

As the 5th best offensive player on our team and the best defender we have against bigger SF's, he's an important piece to this team.

I'm honeslty not too concerned about his box score production as long as he plays with effort and plays solid defense, and lately he's been doing that.

the metric that i posted actually determines a players influence regardless of whether they get lots of playing time or not.  thats why last season, playing about the same amound of minutes, and getting no plays called for him, kenneth farieds metric showed he was a beast.  thats why it shows jared sullinger, who again is having no plays called for him - as a rookie, is way, way, way more influential than jeff green.  the only expaination that he's all the way down there is that every single small forward bar two have more plays called for them?

put it this way:  if you separated the emotional attachment you have to him being a celtic, and thus being invested in his development, and he was playing for another team, would you still think what you think?

danny will trade him.  he's horrible.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 05:57:31 PM by jyyzzoel »

Re: Does anyone still think jeff green can become a decent player?
« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2013, 05:56:12 PM »

Offline Celts Fan 92

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1423
  • Tommy Points: 122
He's a solid player - he's not a star player, but he's solid.

He's starting to play some really decent defense, his rebounding is steady improving, and his effort is looking much better.

He's just not scoring a million points because he's not getting the plays called for him, but he'll settle in fine.

Worth the contact no, but he's solid.

actually, he's pretty much the worst small forward in the whole nba this season.

click on this link, and go all the way to the bottom.  who do you think has the 3rd worst wins per 48 for ALL small forwards?:  http://www.thenbageek.com/players?direction=desc&positions%5B%5D=SF&sort=%22WP48%22
da hell is wins per 48? lol irrelevant stats stay gettin thrown around on here

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog