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[nickagneta]

I think there's a very interested option where Gay goes to PHX, Gortat goes to BOS, Jason Terry and Jared Dudley go to Memphis, and the Grizzlies get under the lux tax this year and beyond (a key part of their reasoning):

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aaf8xkk

Deal solves major problems for all teams. Lee could be subbed in for Terry, though I'd prefer to keep him if one of the two is traded.

Not sure who says no...

It's a good idea, but I can 't imagine the Suns wanting to take on Rudy Gay's contract

I can't see Gay or Green or someone like that heading Phoenix's way without them dumping Michael Beasley off on someone in the deal.

[ssspence]

Quote from: StartOrien on Today at 03:25:17 PM

    Quote from: AB_Celtic on Today at 03:21:44 PM

        Quote from: StartOrien on Today at 03:14:24 PM

            Quote from: ssspence on Today at 03:12:20 PM

                I think there's a very interested option where Gay goes to PHX, Gortat goes to BOS, Jason Terry and Jared Dudley go to Memphis, and the Grizzlies get under the lux tax this year and beyond (a key part of their reasoning):

                http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aaf8xkk

                Deal solves major problems for all teams. Lee could be subbed in for Terry, though I'd prefer to keep him if one of the two is traded.

                Not sure who says no...


            It's a good idea, but I can 't imagine the Suns wanting to take on Rudy Gay's contract


        Correct me if I'm wrong, but PHX has been looking for a star scorer for a while now, both to build around and to attract fans. Gay could be that player.


    They did throw a lot of money at Eric Gordon, but I think Gay being that much older thurts.


2 years older? And 6 inches taller...

If there where willing to pay Gordon they would be willing to pay Gay. He is the closest thing to a star they are going to be able to get with what they have to offer

There next problem is getting rid of beasley...



one other side note what would keep Memphis from just doing Gay for Dudly and Gortat? Giving them the best big man rotation in basketball?

Sure -- thought about that. And nothing really, besides that fact that:

1) Memphis boosts their overall shooting (a major need) by adding both a SG and a SF who can launch it. 

2) Gortat would be annoyed to be a back-up, so they risk a locker room problem.

3) Phoenix can not get a prospect of the quality of Melo in return from Memphis. The Griz have junk for depth... which is why they need guys like Dudley and Terry / Lee.

4) This deal gives them a little more breathing room from the tax in case they need to make another transaction or two.

As for Beasley, they're stuck with him. I can't see how they avoid trading for a player at his position just because he's there. 

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I don't see anyone from our roster that the Griz would like for them to trade us Rudy Gay.

Will they do Jeff Green and multiple picks???

Either way, we should focus on getting a big man instead. I'd love to have Gay here, but we have nothing of interest to Memphis.

[j804]

I don't see anyone from our roster that the Griz would like for them to trade us Rudy Gay.

Will they do Jeff Green and multiple picks???

Either way, we should focus on getting a big man instead. I'd love to have Gay here, but we have nothing of interest to Memphis.

Not with Hollinger in the front office

[Eddie20]

Good read, especially when trying to analyze how Hollinger values Gay and others.

http://www.3sob.com/december-2012/whos-in-trouble/5425/

John Hollinger is assumed to have taken over the player evaluation chores especially after the sudden departure of the Grizzlies scouting team. Hand picked by owner Robert Pera and CEO Jason Levien, that isn’t much of a stretch to assume.

That could mean Hollinger, not Wallace, will be the trigger man for roster moves for the rest of the season.

Rudy Gay: Rudy is 11th in the league in scoring but that isn’t a major factor in the way Hollinger evaluates players. In Hollinger’s ranking Rudy is just a slightly above average SF who is paid to be a lot more. Rudy Gay comes in at 96th in the league under Hollinger’s PER rating. That’s behind Mike Conley (65), Zach Randolph (tied at 33) and Marc Gasol (24) who are all paid less than Rudy.

A major drawback to moving Rudy and his contract is that the Grizzlies are very thin at SF. Only Quincy Pondexter is capable of defending opposing SFs. A trade involving Rudy would seem to require someone in return who was not only less expensive but capable of playing the 3 under Lionel Hollins. If the team remains in the hunt for a home court playoff series it isn’t likely Hollinger would disrupt the front line.

Small Forwards who are higher rated than Rudy who could be available in a trade include Paul Pierce, Josh Smith and Memphis native Thaddeus Young as well as others.

[ScottHow]

Pierce for Gay? OMG yes please

[Mr October]

We don't need Rudy Gay. We need a big like Gortat, Nene, Okafor, Kaman, Varejao, or Millsap or even some not so great bigs like Haywood or Dalembert or Mullens

The Celtics can use him right now to help the offense. 


And he provides Rondo an actual go to scorer in the future.

Does someone want to explain to me how Rudy Gay, a player who is a worse scorer and shooter and passer and defender than Paul Pierce and who plays on a team with a fairly good PG and other very good players, is going to make the Celtics better offensively than Paul Pierce?

I'm a bit confused. Pierce is shooting worse than he has in years and yet is still shooting better than Gay in every facet of the game and is scoring more points than Gay while playing 3 less minutes per game than Gay. How does that compute to helping the offense more than Pierce?

Easy, Rudy Gay is more athletic and can create his own shot. He can be an excellent partner with Rondo on the break. Pierce is on the decline and can only score off of down screens/spot up three's.

Except Doc doesn't believe in fastbreak basketball—I know he says he wants more of that, but we never see it. Rondo already has had running partners in Green, Lee, Wilcox, and Barbosa, but how often have we seen that? Not much. He also has Bradley back now, but I'm still not expecting to see much running, because Doc doesn't push the issue.

You also can't run if you don't rebound the ball. The Celtics only have 2 good rebounding bigs - and one is limited by age, the other by inexperience and size.

[alajet]

I'm surprised that Memphis is actually this willing to bet on a major roster change this much.
Anyway, Pierce for Gay straight up is probably a good deal for the Celtics. But it also means "Jeff Green is our future" talk gets in the trash bin, and with his trade value taking a dip, there is no way we are dumping Green at somewhere else for something good.

Not sure why the Grizzlies would want to replace Gay with Pierce, though. To be fair, Pierce is still the better player out of two at this late age, but he's probably going to retire if he gets traded midway through this campaign. Basically, Grizzlies would be rolling the dice with a roster including Pierce for a single off-season and see what happens.

[jyyzzoel]

if you guys actually checks his numbers, he's really only a little bit better than jeff green. dont look at his plus minus. thats meaningless. look at his wins pers 48 mins position adjusted:

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=13&player_ids%5B%5D=150

check that out and tell me rudy gay is worth 16 million a year??

[Moranis]

Pierce and Melo

for

Gay and Speights (or Arthur)

Memphis gets a solid playoff tested veteran who is a better all around player (right now) and gets Memphis some cap relief this year (as well as in the future) and gives them a nice young prospect with a bigger upside than Speights or Arthur.

Boston get a younger more dynamic scorer on the wing and someone down low that is more capable of contributing this year. 

Seems like a win for both teams.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

We don't need Rudy Gay. We need a big like Gortat, Nene, Okafor, Kaman, Varejao, or Millsap or even some not so great bigs like Haywood or Dalembert or Mullens

The Celtics can use him right now to help the offense. 


And he provides Rondo an actual go to scorer in the future.

Does someone want to explain to me how Rudy Gay, a player who is a worse scorer and shooter and passer and defender than Paul Pierce and who plays on a team with a fairly good PG and other very good players, is going to make the Celtics better offensively than Paul Pierce?

I'm a bit confused. Pierce is shooting worse than he has in years and yet is still shooting better than Gay in every facet of the game and is scoring more points than Gay while playing 3 less minutes per game than Gay. How does that compute to helping the offense more than Pierce?

Easy, Rudy Gay is more athletic and can create his own shot. He can be an excellent partner with Rondo on the break. Pierce is on the decline and can only score off of down screens/spot up three's.

Except Doc doesn't believe in fastbreak basketball—I know he says he wants more of that, but we never see it. Rondo already has had running partners in Green, Lee, Wilcox, and Barbosa, but how often have we seen that? Not much. He also has Bradley back now, but I'm still not expecting to see much running, because Doc doesn't push the issue.

You also can't run if you don't rebound the ball. The Celtics only have 2 good rebounding bigs - and one is limited by age, the other by inexperience and size.

I agree, and maybe that does play into Doc's philosophy, but it seems as though we're not running much even when we do get defensive rebounds. Also, I've seen teams push it against Boston even after the Cs make a basket, but I don't see us ever trying that.

[Mr October]

I'm not feeling the idea of getting another highly overpaid player. A core of Rondo, Bradley, Gay and Green is a recipe for 30 wins per season, with no cap space to add an all star big and a starter quality big.

I'd rather ride it out with Pierce and KG and try to pry a Gortat level player. If the C's flame out, I wouldn't be surprised to see KG and PP hang it up at the end of the season.

[ssspence]

I'm not feeling the idea of getting another highly overpaid player. A core of Rondo, Bradley, Gay and Green is a recipe for 30 wins per season, with no cap space to add an all star big and a starter quality big.

I'd rather ride it out with Pierce and KG and try to pry a Gortat level player. If the C's flame out, I wouldn't be surprised to see KG and PP hang it up at the end of the season.

I agree with all of this. But I think the Cs have more than one glaring issue. Better defense from a big that can move KG back to the 4 should help get more transition buckets, but the Cs offense is scary -- bad enough that such an additional alone won't cure them... namely the fact that no one can get to the cup.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/53247/the-celtics-lethal-inability-to-score

and

http://celticshub.com/2013/01/04/the-disturbing-decline-of-the-celtics-offense/

To be true contenders this year, I think they need more than one adjustment....

[Mr October]

We don't need Rudy Gay. We need a big like Gortat, Nene, Okafor, Kaman, Varejao, or Millsap or even some not so great bigs like Haywood or Dalembert or Mullens

The Celtics can use him right now to help the offense. 


And he provides Rondo an actual go to scorer in the future.

Does someone want to explain to me how Rudy Gay, a player who is a worse scorer and shooter and passer and defender than Paul Pierce and who plays on a team with a fairly good PG and other very good players, is going to make the Celtics better offensively than Paul Pierce?

I'm a bit confused. Pierce is shooting worse than he has in years and yet is still shooting better than Gay in every facet of the game and is scoring more points than Gay while playing 3 less minutes per game than Gay. How does that compute to helping the offense more than Pierce?

Easy, Rudy Gay is more athletic and can create his own shot. He can be an excellent partner with Rondo on the break. Pierce is on the decline and can only score off of down screens/spot up three's.

Except Doc doesn't believe in fastbreak basketball—I know he says he wants more of that, but we never see it. Rondo already has had running partners in Green, Lee, Wilcox, and Barbosa, but how often have we seen that? Not much. He also has Bradley back now, but I'm still not expecting to see much running, because Doc doesn't push the issue.

You also can't run if you don't rebound the ball. The Celtics only have 2 good rebounding bigs - and one is limited by age, the other by inexperience and size.

I agree, and maybe that does play into Doc's philosophy, but it seems as though we're not running much even when we do get defensive rebounds. Also, I've seen teams push it against Boston even after the Cs make a basket, but I don't see us ever trying that.

I agree. And I can't put my finger on why. So far i think it is because running has to be a routine, second nature. And the C's don't get many opportunities. Barbosa is a black hole on the break. Green and Lee aren't that fast - more like just above average. Bradley is the only guy that can fly up the court at Rondo's pace. The team has a lot of mismatched parts, no go scoring, not enough quality in the front court, not enough rebounding. 

[Mr October]

I'm not feeling the idea of getting another highly overpaid player. A core of Rondo, Bradley, Gay and Green is a recipe for 30 wins per season, with no cap space to add an all star big and a starter quality big.

I'd rather ride it out with Pierce and KG and try to pry a Gortat level player. If the C's flame out, I wouldn't be surprised to see KG and PP hang it up at the end of the season.

I agree with all of this. But I think the Cs have more than one glaring issue. Better defense from a big that can move KG back to the 4 should help get more transition buckets, but the Cs offense is scary -- bad enough that such an additional alone won't cure them... namely the fact that no one can get to the cup.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/53247/the-celtics-lethal-inability-to-score

Yeah, the C's struggle to get open shots. Pierce loosing a step, and the loss of Ray's floor spacing has crippled the offense. 

And from what i have seen from Gay, he is not a championship calibur go to scorer. He appears to be more like Joe Johnson, Ben Gordon (in his prime), Monta Ellis, etc.

My hope would be that 1 more quality big man, plus the integration of Bradley will get the Celtics back to a 60% winning team. From there KG and Pierce will have to dip back into the glory days bucket in order for the C's to make a run in the playoffs.