Author Topic: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?  (Read 14420 times)

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Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2013, 10:03:29 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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Perk struggled in the Finals (Chris Bosh) but he played a pretty significant role in getting Oklahoma there in the first place.

Perk was very valuable defensively against the Los Angeles Lakers (Andrew Bynum) and the San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan).

Duncan killed him. It was when they went smaller and started running the Spurs off the court that they got back in the series.

Luckily for the Thunder, Ibaka has taken his game to another level with his jumpshooting which might get them over the hump.
Perk continues to regress and is just killing them at times.
He's basically an interior defender that sets screens. A rich man's Jason Collins for 9 million a year.

Duncan went 40 for 91 that series.  That isn't killing.  Duncan had his way with Perk in Game 5, but in the rest of the OKC wins, SA was badly outscored when Duncan was on the court.  Perk also matched Duncan minute for minute the entire series. You make it sound like OKC ran Duncan out of the building when Perk was sitting.  Strangely, Perk really neutralized Duncan in the two SA wins, where it took Duncan 26 shots to score 27 points. 

When SA went to going through Duncan more, their offense slowed.  OKC's offense ramped up, and they did a better job closing up on the perimeter, and that's why they won.  While Duncan plodding his way in the post, and was shooting and missing FTs (21-36), OKC was fast breaking and banging threes.

Do you really think that Ibaka doesn't benefit from playing next to a physical, wide-bodied center? Guys with builds like Ibaka and KG, who use jumping ability and timing instead of boxing out technique, need a physical center to seal off the opposing big for them to board well.  Look how putrid the Cs rebounding, and  KG's rebounding numbers have been, since Perk was traded.  Cs last or near last in most rebounding categories, after being in the top 1/3 of the league in 08.     

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2013, 10:24:36 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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Perk struggled in the Finals (Chris Bosh) but he played a pretty significant role in getting Oklahoma there in the first place.

Perk was very valuable defensively against the Los Angeles Lakers (Andrew Bynum) and the San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan).

Duncan killed him. It was when they went smaller and started running the Spurs off the court that they got back in the series.

Luckily for the Thunder, Ibaka has taken his game to another level with his jumpshooting which might get them over the hump.
Perk continues to regress and is just killing them at times.
He's basically an interior defender that sets screens. A rich man's Jason Collins for 9 million a year.

Duncan went 40 for 91 that series.  That isn't killing.  Duncan had his way with Perk in Game 5, but in the rest of the OKC wins, SA was badly outscored when Duncan was on the court.  Perk also matched Duncan minute for minute the entire series. You make it sound like OKC ran Duncan out of the building when Perk was sitting.  Strangely, Perk really neutralized Duncan in the two SA wins, where it took Duncan 26 shots to score 27 points. 

When SA went to going through Duncan more, their offense slowed.  OKC's offense ramped up, and they did a better job closing up on the perimeter, and that's why they won.  While Duncan plodding his way in the post, and was shooting and missing FTs (21-36), OKC was fast breaking and banging threes.

Do you really think that Ibaka doesn't benefit from playing next to a physical, wide-bodied center? Guys with builds like Ibaka and KG, who use jumping ability and timing instead of boxing out technique, need a physical center to seal off the opposing big for them to board well.  Look how putrid the Cs rebounding, and  KG's rebounding numbers have been, since Perk was traded.  Cs last or near last in most rebounding categories, after being in the top 1/3 of the league in 08.     

I don't know about this series bu KG benefitting from Perk? Where do u get that? Is rebounding percentage was better last year than the couple years before. KG had an unbelievable year in general last year. He moved to a position he hasn't played before and played better there than Perk.

I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2013, 10:30:43 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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Perk



Then the Celtics could have just resign Pietrus to backup Pierce again this season.

Pietrus is probably injured right now.

He's always injured. He missed 1/3 of the season last year. Not to mention he is a pretty horrific player. 80% of his fg attests last year were threes and he shot them at a terrible rate.

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2013, 10:32:56 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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Perk struggled in the Finals (Chris Bosh) but he played a pretty significant role in getting Oklahoma there in the first place.

Perk was very valuable defensively against the Los Angeles Lakers (Andrew Bynum) and the San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan).

Duncan killed him. It was when they went smaller and started running the Spurs off the court that they got back in the series.

Luckily for the Thunder, Ibaka has taken his game to another level with his jumpshooting which might get them over the hump.
Perk continues to regress and is just killing them at times.
He's basically an interior defender that sets screens. A rich man's Jason Collins for 9 million a year.

Duncan went 40 for 91 that series.  That isn't killing.  Duncan had his way with Perk in Game 5, but in the rest of the OKC wins, SA was badly outscored when Duncan was on the court.  Perk also matched Duncan minute for minute the entire series. You make it sound like OKC ran Duncan out of the building when Perk was sitting.  Strangely, Perk really neutralized Duncan in the two SA wins, where it took Duncan 26 shots to score 27 points. 

When SA went to going through Duncan more, their offense slowed.  OKC's offense ramped up, and they did a better job closing up on the perimeter, and that's why they won.  While Duncan plodding his way in the post, and was shooting and missing FTs (21-36), OKC was fast breaking and banging threes.

Do you really think that Ibaka doesn't benefit from playing next to a physical, wide-bodied center? Guys with builds like Ibaka and KG, who use jumping ability and timing instead of boxing out technique, need a physical center to seal off the opposing big for them to board well.  Look how putrid the Cs rebounding, and  KG's rebounding numbers have been, since Perk was traded.  Cs last or near last in most rebounding categories, after being in the top 1/3 of the league in 08.     

I don't know about this series bu KG benefitting from Perk? Where do u get that? Is rebounding percentage was better last year than the couple years before. KG had an unbelievable year in general last year. He moved to a position he hasn't played before and played better there than Perk.

I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

If you don't think that KG benefits from playing next to a bonafide big man, whether it be Perk or Shaq, i don't know what I can tell you to change your mind. 

The Cs had success last year with KG at center, but even in the playoffs, they barely squeaked by a callow Philly team without a great center, and played their next two opponents with their all star bigs missing most of the series.

This year, the Cs had to shelve the KG at center line up early in the season, when other teams were banging the offensive glass like crazy. 

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2013, 10:33:40 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

I think KG looking better in, say, 2012 as opposed to 2010 has a lot to do with his injury completely healing.  In 2010 his play was noticeably affected.

I think what a guy like Perk did for KG was that it allowed him to roam more on defense.  Having a strong defensive center allowed KG to be more aggressive and disruptive.  Coincidentally enough, Perk's presence and Ibaka's move to PF has allowed him to do exactly the same thing, making him a much stronger defensive presence than he was previously.


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Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2013, 10:34:05 AM »

Offline MaxAMillion

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I would trade Charmin Green for a bag of groceries. $8 million this year for that guy? I would have rather had the corpse named Pietrus than spending big money on softy.

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2013, 10:48:58 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

I think KG looking better in, say, 2012 as opposed to 2010 has a lot to do with his injury completely healing.  In 2010 his play was noticeably affected.

I think what a guy like Perk did for KG was that it allowed him to roam more on defense.  Having a strong defensive center allowed KG to be more aggressive and disruptive.  Coincidentally enough, Perk's presence and Ibaka's move to PF has allowed him to do exactly the same thing, making him a much stronger defensive presence than he was previously.

KG has been strong no doubt but I agree that Perk allows Garnett to be more aggressive and look for more steals and block shots while roaming. Since Garnett has to control and command so much of the defense he isnt allowed to help as much because he is the anchor of the front court with not much alongside him to trust. Its apparent in the fact that Garnett is averaging less than a block a game (along with the fact he cant jump anymore).
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Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2013, 10:58:57 AM »

Offline mgent

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Absolutely not. We traded Perkins to fill a more valuable hole in our roster, and since then he's become a shell of who he was while in green.
And it opened a new hole that hasn't been filled yet.  Courtney Lee as the backup 2/3 wouldn't be a hole, at least not nearly as much as Wafer and Pavlovic would have been.  In fact he'd be a huge upgrade over Marquis who was plugging that hole when we were the best team in the league.

And we traded Perkins after Marquis went down.

Which was what opened up the hole.

The hole at backup SF.

The hole that we traded Perkins to fill.

The hole that was filled by Jeff Green: To be a backup for Paul Pierce. Which we needed. Much more than Perkins.

It was the right trade at the time, and while we do need an upgrade at the center spot now, let's remember that we had Shaq and JO that year, both of whom were projected to return to the floor in good health later in the season--(We've got to keep hindsight out of this when we evalutate that trade)....


Perkins is not the droids we are looking for, and that's even before we get into his salary, and his diminished ability.
None of this addresses my point.  I know we traded Perkins after Marquis got hurt, maybe you didn't understand my comment.

Courtney Lee would be replacing Green.
Sasha and Von Wafer would've been replacing Marquis (who isn't as good as Lee to begin with).

Our team simply has less holes than it did that year.  If you forget the injured O'Neals this team is better and deeper.  Wilcox, Bass, and Sullinger is much different than Big Baby and Semih playing with an injury.  Bradley, Lee, and Barbosa vs Delonte, Nate, and Marquis.  The only hole I see is a big that can play defense outside of KG.  Green isn't filling the same need for us as he did in 2010.

And as a side note, I don't think the consensus was or currently is "the right trade at the time."
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Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2013, 11:00:29 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2013, 11:07:25 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Krs-none was so great that he could barely get on the court in the 2011 playoffs. 

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2013, 11:20:27 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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I actually think KG has been better without Perk. Not saying its because Perk is gone (its stupid to dumb down arguments like that anyway) but KG has at least looked equally as good without Perk in every facet of the game and you also have to consider KG's mileage as each year passes. No matter who he plays with over the next couple years his rebounding numbers will trend down

I think KG looking better in, say, 2012 as opposed to 2010 has a lot to do with his injury completely healing.  In 2010 his play was noticeably affected.

I think what a guy like Perk did for KG was that it allowed him to roam more on defense.  Having a strong defensive center allowed KG to be more aggressive and disruptive.  Coincidentally enough, Perk's presence and Ibaka's move to PF has allowed him to do exactly the same thing, making him a much stronger defensive presence than he was previously.

Well however you want to put it Perk had had little effect on KG playing well. This year our D is bad (the exception not rule) and its more due to the fact that we don't have a competent player to plug next to KG (something tat shouldn't be hard to do) not LG missing Perk.

Is there any evidence of KG being more disruptive with Perk than without or him being a better defensive player?

Has Perk dropped off at all? Id say yes. Would youthe be willing to betpart on anthe upward or downwardto trend? Id betsay the ladder.

He also barely plays half the game with 25 min a game. Why is that? At least if you have a supposed good (is that what Perk is?) Starting center you should be getting more minutes out there unless he actually doesn't help that much, doesn't have the endurance, or can't stay out of foul trouble.

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2013, 11:38:37 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Krs-none was so great that he could barely get on the court in the 2011 playoffs.

In that regular season, Krstic started 20 of the 24 games he played with Boston, shooting 53% and averaging 9.1 points and 5.3 rebounds in 23 minutes a game.

That same season, Big Baby started just 13 games out of the whole year, shooting 45% and averaging 11.7 points and 5.4 rebounds in 29 minutes a game.

I'm not saying Krstic would have been a difference maker or denying that he wasn't a great defender, but he was certainly good enough to play.  Doc's totally arbitrary decision to sit him and play Baby, even while Baby stunk up the court for basically the entire playoffs, had nothing to do with Krstic as a player.

Mike

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2013, 11:42:02 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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He also barely plays half the game with 25 min a game. Why is that? At least if you have a supposed good (is that what Perk is?) Starting center you should be getting more minutes out there unless he actually doesn't help that much, doesn't have the endurance, or can't stay out of foul trouble.

Perk has always played around 25 minutes per game.  He does't foul all that much, one every 10 minutes.  His 25 minutes seem to be working for OKC, because they've won 80% of their games since trading for Perkins.  Ibaka only plays 29 mpg, and averages 25mpg for his career.  That's OKC's philosophy, for their bigs to play short minutes, not get a lot of shots, and to concentrate more on boxing out and letting the littles snare rebounds (KD, Westbrooks, Martin and Thabo get the same amount of rebounds per game as the four bigs).

It's different, but it obviously works for OKC.   

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2013, 11:50:30 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Krs-none was so great that he could barely get on the court in the 2011 playoffs.

In that regular season, Krstic started 20 of the 24 games he played with Boston, shooting 53% and averaging 9.1 points and 5.3 rebounds in 23 minutes a game.

That same season, Big Baby started just 13 games out of the whole year, shooting 45% and averaging 11.7 points and 5.4 rebounds in 29 minutes a game.

I'm not saying Krstic would have been a difference maker or denying that he wasn't a great defender, but he was certainly good enough to play.  Doc's totally arbitrary decision to sit him and play Baby, even while Baby stunk up the court for basically the entire playoffs, had nothing to do with Krstic as a player.

Mike

IIRC, Krstic played like a scared kitten in the playoffs in the minutes he did get.  Boston swept the Knicks, who were playing small, so BBD was a more logical choice.  The Heat played small too.  I guess one could argue that the Cs should have tried to play big against the Heat, but I don't see JO and Krstic as the kind of high usage centers that could make the Heat play defensively for going small.   

Re: Would you trade Jeff Green For Kendrick Perkins Now?
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2013, 12:15:31 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Would I trade Jeff Green for Perk?  Probably, if only because I know Doc would play Perk a lot while it seems that Green's minutes are limited by Doc's commitment to Pierce.

Now, if we still had Nenad Krstic would I trade him and Green for Perk?  No way.  Krstic wasn't a great defender but he could score and rebound well enough for the job.

Mike

Krs-none was so great that he could barely get on the court in the 2011 playoffs.

In that regular season, Krstic started 20 of the 24 games he played with Boston, shooting 53% and averaging 9.1 points and 5.3 rebounds in 23 minutes a game.

That same season, Big Baby started just 13 games out of the whole year, shooting 45% and averaging 11.7 points and 5.4 rebounds in 29 minutes a game.

I'm not saying Krstic would have been a difference maker or denying that he wasn't a great defender, but he was certainly good enough to play.  Doc's totally arbitrary decision to sit him and play Baby, even while Baby stunk up the court for basically the entire playoffs, had nothing to do with Krstic as a player.

Mike

IIRC, Krstic played like a scared kitten in the playoffs in the minutes he did get.  Boston swept the Knicks, who were playing small, so BBD was a more logical choice.  The Heat played small too.  I guess one could argue that the Cs should have tried to play big against the Heat, but I don't see JO and Krstic as the kind of high usage centers that could make the Heat play defensively for going small.

Krstic only played 5 and 3 minutes in the two Knick games that were close, then played 6 and 11 in the first two games against Miami, then 16 minutes in final game.  So I guess Doc decided that he needed to play the "scared kitten" the most against the better team and when it was win or go home?

Or, and in the playoffs the year before with the Thunder?

Krstic - 21.5 minutes, 7.2 points, 5.8 rebounds.

And how did Big Baby produce while Krstic was left on the bench in the playoffs for Boston?

Baby - 21.2 minutes, 4.9 points, 3.6 rebounds.

Again, was Krstic going to be the difference on winning a title that year? Probably not.  But his lack of playing time in the playoffs had NOTHING to do with his production and EVERYTHING to do with Doc just making a coaching decision.

Mike

 

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