Poll

At what point will changes occur??

If we lose the next three to IND, ATL, NYN which will be 7 straight loses
6 (16.7%)
By trade deadline Feb 21, 2013
23 (63.9%)
Regardless of season outcome, no changes until offseason
3 (8.3%)
Stick it out with this group for the next few years
4 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 36

Author Topic: At this rate at what point will changes occur??  (Read 6720 times)

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Online triboy16f

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At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« on: January 03, 2013, 01:26:19 PM »
Hopefully things turn around. But if not , at this rate, when is something going to change?? I can see something happening as soon as we lose the next three and worse case by trade deadline. The bottom line is, you can't sign KG and Pierce to all star level salary figures plus generously pay 4 bench players, only to not make it into the playoffs.  Its just not acceptable

Four changes i see happening (from likely to less likely)

1. Don't touch the core and trade for a center - Gorat, Okafor as example. Likely it will take one of Sully, Melo and a 1st round pick. Danny will have to overpay for this quick but possible "glue" solution

2. Paul Pierce is traded for picks and youth. Give Jeff Green a chance to start. Also frees up money next year to sign Josh Smith.

3. Fire Rivers. Would our team be better if Greg Popovich was coaching instead? Rivers is an ok coach that has had the luxury to have hof players KG, Pierce, Ray Allen. But when you don't have an optimal team, Rivers can only get you 500 or less. San Antonio has key players that are as old and injured as the ones on our team. They also have several no name guys pops developed that have done the job. No wasting millions of dollars

4. Total Blow up. Say we lose next to IND all the way until we lose to the Bobcats. Is this considered a one player away issue? A coaching issue? To me this could mean a total blow up necessary to move the franchise forward. I mean see you later Ainge, Rivers, KG, Pierce and Rondo.

realistic team after blowup
Scal as new coach, Trade Rondo, KG, Sully to ATL for Horford and Jeff Teague,  trade Pierce and Lee to Den for Corey Brewer, Mozgov, Chandler, 1st round pick, Jeff Green to IND for Tyler Hansborough, 1st round pick + salary fill in, Jason Terry to OKC for Reggie Jackson + salary fill in

New lineup
Starting - Horford, Hansborough, Brewer, Bradley, Teague
Bench - Mozgov, Melo, Bass, Chandler, Jackson 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:33:11 PM by triboy16f »
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Offline Chris

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 01:32:29 PM »
Well, I wouldn't expect anything before January 15th.  That would be the first date to mark down, because that is when Green and Bass can be traded. 

Beyond that, it depends what other teams timelines are. 

Online triboy16f

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 01:38:57 PM »
Well, I wouldn't expect anything before January 15th.  That would be the first date to mark down, because that is when Green and Bass can be traded. 

Beyond that, it depends what other teams timelines are.

Likely by the trade deadline date , at this rate, a minor trade (getting a decent center) to a major (possible blow up of team) change will occur. I'm not feeling good about our chances to win the next three games nor going on any major winning streaks this month. Maybe a two game streak if we beat NO and bobcats.
Surprising players happen all the time -- that's why they're called surprises.

Offline LarBrd33

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 01:39:22 PM »
Between Jan 15th and the trade deadline.  Same as always. 

This is what you call a sitting duck team.  Everyone knows trade rumors are about to swirl... and we've always known they can't really start until Jan 15th.  When the dust settles after the deadline, you'll start to see a team that is more emotionally invested and locked in.  Until then, it's going to be a lackluster affair of undefined roles and lack of focus.  That's the risk you take when you acquire redundant assets and head into the season with a roster that clearly needs a trade to work properly.  The biggest thing Bradley's return does is give Barbosa (a fine player) a bunch of DNP's.  Meanwhile we're starting a garbage center and our 4th best player (jeff green) is coming off the bench.  That's a broken roster.   

It's little things like the fact Sullinger makes Brandon Bass expendable.  Those two are redundant.  But you can't outright stop playing Bass, because it will tank what little trade value he has.  I've been watching the Celtics and Danny Ainge long enough to know how this works.  I remember the fans frustration when Big Al/Perk weren't getting enough minutes... meanwhile we were playing Mark Blount heavy minutes.  It was clear we wanted to dump Blount.... and we did.  I think the players can sense when they are on a team like that... and I imagine it's tough to get very moitivated to go to war with your "brothers" when you know you or your "brothers" are on the way out within the next month. 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:48:06 PM by LarBrd33 »

Offline clover

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 01:51:12 PM »
Probably not until after the 15th, when Green or Bass could be included, though I think Danny would strike immediately if there were a Cousins-level trade to be made before then.

If they don't significantly improve their play (which I am not anticipating), I think Danny will be ready to blow it up, as much as he is able to, by mid-February.

Offline droopdog7

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 01:55:09 PM »
They basically have to decide whether they are contenders or pretenders first.  I tend to think they are pretenders.  Unfortunately, they don't have many salary friendly contracts to trade.

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 02:03:52 PM »
Random thought here:
Pierce to the Spurs for Kawahi Leonard.
Terry to someone for expirings.
Green/Bass/Lee for some cheeseburgers (with bacon)
Kg retires????
DKC Los Angeles Lakers
GM: Micheal Corleone
Head Coach: Mike Krzyzewski
Roster

Offline LarBrd33

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 02:06:13 PM »
They basically have to decide whether they are contenders or pretenders first.  I tend to think they are pretenders.  Unfortunately, they don't have many salary friendly contracts to trade.
Personally I've felt like we were pretenders since early 2011 when Shaq got injured.

We made a cute little run towards the end of a lockout shortened season last year.   And then we lucked into playing a 5th seed without their best player... and an 8th seed in the second round (who managed to take us to 7 games).

I agree we gave Miami everything we had until Bosh came back and LeBron took care of business, but there is only so much you can read into that.  We gave them everything we had.  That's all pride right there.  Pride of old dogs like Ray and Pierce (who were both playing hurt) and of course Kevin Garnett.  They all dug as deep as they could.  Muscle memory took over for the former stars.  Once great men giving it their all.  We gave Miami hell.  It was a lot of fun.

We had the luxury of avoiding Orlando and Dwight (who would have eaten us alive). We had the luxury of avoiding the Spurs (who were the best team in the regular season and would punish us with size).  We had the luxury of avoiding the Lakers who would have just owned us inside.   We had the luxury of avoiding the Thunder.  We had the luxury of avoiding the Bulls with Rose (who were probably the best team in the East).  We didn't even have to play a tough Indiana team or tough Memphis/Clippers teams that probably could have knocked us off.

Injuries hurt our season for sure.  But we got darn lucky in the playoffs.

This year if we luck into playing a 5th seed without their best player and the 8th seed... we might sneak into the Eastern Conference Finals again. 

Online triboy16f

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 03:48:48 PM »
As someone pointed out before, we are also dealing with bad luck this year.

It seems like this is the year where both KG and Pierce play have hit the wall and regressed due to age. It happens to all big stars at one point of their long careers.  We lose Darko, who we could of really used to play center right now. You could blame doc on this one for not giving him any play and making his decision easier to leave to be with his mom. Keyon Dooling changes his mind and doesn't comeback to be the 2nd unit pg as we could of really used his intensity, passion and knack of scoring some big shots.  Losing guys like Pietrus, Hollins, Stiemer has been pretty big. Pietrus has been a big part in helping Toronto transform to where they are today. Hollins and Stiemer are not key guys for their team now, but would be if they played for us.  They would be a heck lot more effective than Collins.
Surprising players happen all the time -- that's why they're called surprises.

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 04:05:33 PM »
Hopefully things turn around. But if not , at this rate, when is something going to change?? I can see something happening as soon as we lose the next three and worse case by trade deadline. The bottom line is, you can't sign KG and Pierce to all star level salary figures plus generously pay 4 bench players, only to not make it into the playoffs.  Its just not acceptable

Four changes i see happening (from likely to less likely)

1. Don't touch the core and trade for a center - Gorat, Okafor as example. Likely it will take one of Sully, Melo and a 1st round pick. Danny will have to overpay for this quick but possible "glue" solution

2. Paul Pierce is traded for picks and youth. Give Jeff Green a chance to start. Also frees up money next year to sign Josh Smith.

3. Fire Rivers. Would our team be better if Greg Popovich was coaching instead? Rivers is an ok coach that has had the luxury to have hof players KG, Pierce, Ray Allen. But when you don't have an optimal team, Rivers can only get you 500 or less. San Antonio has key players that are as old and injured as the ones on our team. They also have several no name guys pops developed that have done the job. No wasting millions of dollars

4. Total Blow up. Say we lose next to IND all the way until we lose to the Bobcats. Is this considered a one player away issue? A coaching issue? To me this could mean a total blow up necessary to move the franchise forward. I mean see you later Ainge, Rivers, KG, Pierce and Rondo.

realistic team after blowup
Scal as new coach, Trade Rondo, KG, Sully to ATL for Horford and Jeff Teague,  trade Pierce and Lee to Den for Corey Brewer, Mozgov, Chandler, 1st round pick, Jeff Green to IND for Tyler Hansborough, 1st round pick + salary fill in, Jason Terry to OKC for Reggie Jackson + salary fill in

New lineup
Starting - Horford, Hansborough, Brewer, Bradley, Teague
Bench - Mozgov, Melo, Bass, Chandler, Jackson
Scal would be an AWESOME coach!

Offline jambr380

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 04:06:44 PM »
Hopefully things turn around. But if not , at this rate, when is something going to change?? I can see something happening as soon as we lose the next three and worse case by trade deadline. The bottom line is, you can't sign KG and Pierce to all star level salary figures plus generously pay 4 bench players, only to not make it into the playoffs.  Its just not acceptable

Four changes i see happening (from likely to less likely)

1. Don't touch the core and trade for a center - Gorat, Okafor as example. Likely it will take one of Sully, Melo and a 1st round pick. Danny will have to overpay for this quick but possible "glue" solution

2. Paul Pierce is traded for picks and youth. Give Jeff Green a chance to start. Also frees up money next year to sign Josh Smith.

3. Fire Rivers. Would our team be better if Greg Popovich was coaching instead? Rivers is an ok coach that has had the luxury to have hof players KG, Pierce, Ray Allen. But when you don't have an optimal team, Rivers can only get you 500 or less. San Antonio has key players that are as old and injured as the ones on our team. They also have several no name guys pops developed that have done the job. No wasting millions of dollars

4. Total Blow up. Say we lose next to IND all the way until we lose to the Bobcats. Is this considered a one player away issue? A coaching issue? To me this could mean a total blow up necessary to move the franchise forward. I mean see you later Ainge, Rivers, KG, Pierce and Rondo.

realistic team after blowup
Scal as new coach, Trade Rondo, KG, Sully to ATL for Horford and Jeff Teague,  trade Pierce and Lee to Den for Corey Brewer, Mozgov, Chandler, 1st round pick, Jeff Green to IND for Tyler Hansborough, 1st round pick + salary fill in, Jason Terry to OKC for Reggie Jackson + salary fill in

New lineup
Starting - Horford, Hansborough, Brewer, Bradley, Teague
Bench - Mozgov, Melo, Bass, Chandler, Jackson

Your different scenarios are pretty interesting, but that is the worst team you could possible construct. If it is blow it up and acquire those players for our current ones, or keep what we have and enjoy the show, I am standing pat. The only decent player you have there is Horford and all of the draft picks would be quite low...

Online MBunge

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 04:17:20 PM »
I think it will take more than losing the next three.  If they add on losses in the next two games at home to Phoenix and Houston, that's when I suspect something will happen.  The team would be 14-22 and would basically have to play better than .500 ball the rest of the season just to get the 8th playoff spot.

Mike

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 04:34:52 PM »
Quote
realistic team after blowup
Scal as new coach, Trade Rondo, KG, Sully to ATL for Horford and Jeff Teague,  trade Pierce and Lee to Den for Corey Brewer, Mozgov, Chandler, 1st round pick, Jeff Green to IND for Tyler Hansborough, 1st round pick + salary fill in, Jason Terry to OKC for Reggie Jackson + salary fill in

New lineup
Starting - Horford, Hansborough, Brewer, Bradley, Teague
Bench - Mozgov, Melo, Bass, Chandler, Jackson 

Ouch.  I think that team is worse than our current one, both in the present and future.

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Online triboy16f

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 04:39:48 PM »
Hopefully things turn around. But if not , at this rate, when is something going to change?? I can see something happening as soon as we lose the next three and worse case by trade deadline. The bottom line is, you can't sign KG and Pierce to all star level salary figures plus generously pay 4 bench players, only to not make it into the playoffs.  Its just not acceptable

Four changes i see happening (from likely to less likely)

1. Don't touch the core and trade for a center - Gorat, Okafor as example. Likely it will take one of Sully, Melo and a 1st round pick. Danny will have to overpay for this quick but possible "glue" solution

2. Paul Pierce is traded for picks and youth. Give Jeff Green a chance to start. Also frees up money next year to sign Josh Smith.

3. Fire Rivers. Would our team be better if Greg Popovich was coaching instead? Rivers is an ok coach that has had the luxury to have hof players KG, Pierce, Ray Allen. But when you don't have an optimal team, Rivers can only get you 500 or less. San Antonio has key players that are as old and injured as the ones on our team. They also have several no name guys pops developed that have done the job. No wasting millions of dollars

4. Total Blow up. Say we lose next to IND all the way until we lose to the Bobcats. Is this considered a one player away issue? A coaching issue? To me this could mean a total blow up necessary to move the franchise forward. I mean see you later Ainge, Rivers, KG, Pierce and Rondo.

realistic team after blowup
Scal as new coach, Trade Rondo, KG, Sully to ATL for Horford and Jeff Teague,  trade Pierce and Lee to Den for Corey Brewer, Mozgov, Chandler, 1st round pick, Jeff Green to IND for Tyler Hansborough, 1st round pick + salary fill in, Jason Terry to OKC for Reggie Jackson + salary fill in

New lineup
Starting - Horford, Hansborough, Brewer, Bradley, Teague
Bench - Mozgov, Melo, Bass, Chandler, Jackson

Your different scenarios are pretty interesting, but that is the worst team you could possible construct. If it is blow it up and acquire those players for our current ones, or keep what we have and enjoy the show, I am standing pat. The only decent player you have there is Horford and all of the draft picks would be quite low...

Teague is a very very good pg. In some ways better than Rondo the way he can shoot and score in clutch. I think Hansborough is going to become the 2nd coming of David Lee. A late bloomer but eventually a near all star.  He has been putting together quite a bit of 20 and 10 games this year. He just needs a chance to start. Bradley is an amazing defender at guard and Brewer like Hansborough is really coming along. He couldn't shoot with much consistancy earlier in his career and now will shoot it in the 4th quarter, with hands in his face and make it. He is also a fantastic defender and has a relationship with Horford in that they both won a championship at college level before the NBA.

We would be young, athletic, and have defensive shutdown potential.
Surprising players happen all the time -- that's why they're called surprises.

Online triboy16f

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Re: At this rate at what point will changes occur??
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 04:45:24 PM »
Quote
realistic team after blowup
Scal as new coach, Trade Rondo, KG, Sully to ATL for Horford and Jeff Teague,  trade Pierce and Lee to Den for Corey Brewer, Mozgov, Chandler, 1st round pick, Jeff Green to IND for Tyler Hansborough, 1st round pick + salary fill in, Jason Terry to OKC for Reggie Jackson + salary fill in

New lineup
Starting - Horford, Hansborough, Brewer, Bradley, Teague
Bench - Mozgov, Melo, Bass, Chandler, Jackson 

Ouch.  I think that team is worse than our current one, both in the present and future.

No it wouldn't. Imo the proposed new starting lineup would beat the current lineup now.
Surprising players happen all the time -- that's why they're called surprises.

 

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