Author Topic: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?  (Read 4209 times)

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Offline wdleehi

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How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« on: January 03, 2013, 09:28:48 AM »
I look at this Celtics offense and can't help but wonder how much better it could be if they had a player that could draw a defense towards them.


Pierce and KG no longer are playing at a level the requires a defense to shift to help.  Rondo only draws when he gets to the basket which isn't enough. 



This means there are less open shots.  The role players that can make shots with space are not getting as much space.  Defenders are not pulled away from good rebounding positions (though I don't think the Celtics would attack the offensive boards more)





Do the Celtics need that player?  Can Pierce or KG play to such a level again this season? 


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Offline mgent

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 10:28:42 AM »
Eh, I don't think the offense is all that bad.  Certainly not any worse than the past 2 years.  The shots are more than make-able.  Pierce, Rondo, Terry, Lee, and Sullinger are all getting wide open looks, even 3s.  Bass and Green are getting decent enough shots as well.  KG is really the only one taking hard shots, and that's no different than always.  Losing Ray is a difference maker, he took a LOT of shots with a hand in his face.  It just didn't affect him.

Obviously everything depends on how often Rondo is going to the rim, but I can't say there are significantly less open shots than last year, we're just not making them. 
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Offline pearljammer10

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 11:06:47 AM »
I dont think the offense is that bad but it certainly isnt that good.

I think our biggest problem is that we dont have a consistent 20 point a night scoring threat anymore. Pierce averages in the 18 - 20 range and is very efficient but he isnt capable of putting up 25 at any given time anymore. He will work the game throughout the night and end up with his 18 points very slowly.

We dont really have a "go to" guy that is capable of going off and putting together a streak of scoring on a consistent basis. We don't really have a number one option, as much as I love Pierce and am one of his biggest supporters, he is best at being a number 2 option scoring 17 - 19 points a game. We need another one to do what he does and take the pressure off him. And when Pierce is hot we can get him the rock. Yes we have a system and a team based approach where the guys dont care who get the points, but when the system isnt working, like currently, there is noone one the team anymore to say give me the [dang] ball and score when they want.

I was hoping Green might be able to somewhat play that role. But unless he gets consistent minutes it doesnt look like he is going to be that player. Obviously these 20 point guys dont grow on trees, so it is going to be tough to fill this position. And I dont see Rondo becoming aggressive enough to be our main scoring option.

You look at the leagues top teams.
Miami - James 27ppg Wade 21ppg
OKC - Durant 28ppg Westbrook 22ppg
SA - Parker 19ppg Duncan 18ppg
LAC - Griffin 18ppg Paul 16ppg

Even NYC has Melo at 29ppg and J.R. Smith at 16.5ppg
 and  GS  Lee and Curry at 20ppg
 and even IND has West at 17 and George at 16

With Garnett gets 14.5 but he doesnt play enough minutes or have enough legs to be a go to option anymore. Rondo isnt aggressive enough. Terry isnt comfortable in his role yet.

If we had been able to get West over Bass. That would have been a nicer addition.
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Offline ssspence

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 11:15:42 AM »
They need that player. Neither Terry nor Green has filled the giant whole of a guy who can score off the dribble.

The Cs are a jumpshooting team, especially with Pierce getting older. He if can chuck in a bunch of threes in a game, or Bass / Terry / Green whoever can have a hot night shooting, they can win the game is question. A playoff series? Questionable. A number of playoff series? Doubtful.

I suspect Barbosa is going to start getting a little more time again -- even with Bradley back -- just to loosen things up, and drive a little urgency with those who lose minutes to him. 


Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 11:21:13 AM »
The offense I believe is fine right now.

What we need is Jet and Green to get out of their slumps and we'll be a better offensive team.

Defense, rebounding is what we really need to fix first. A rim protector and a guy who will crash the boards offensively.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 11:27:19 AM by Yoki_IsTheName »
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Offline Chris

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 11:25:31 AM »
They just need more talent in the frontcourt.  Add another legit starter to the frontcourt, and it will keep defenses honest, and open things up more for others, and it will also help guys like Sully and Bass settle in to roles that fit their skillsets better. 

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 11:43:42 AM »
They just need more talent in the frontcourt.  Add another legit starter to the frontcourt, and it will keep defenses honest, and open things up more for others, and it will also help guys like Sully and Bass settle in to roles that fit their skillsets better.
Offense is not an issue. They need someone who can defend a chair. Preferably, a 7-foot tall chair.
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Offline Chris

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 11:45:22 AM »
They just need more talent in the frontcourt.  Add another legit starter to the frontcourt, and it will keep defenses honest, and open things up more for others, and it will also help guys like Sully and Bass settle in to roles that fit their skillsets better.
Offense is not an issue. They need someone who can defend a chair. Preferably, a 7-foot tall chair.

Offense is an issue though.  They have no flow offensively, and go cold too often, as defenses just funnel the ball to the weak link, whether its Collins, Bass, etc.

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 12:03:09 PM »
They just need more talent in the frontcourt.  Add another legit starter to the frontcourt, and it will keep defenses honest, and open things up more for others, and it will also help guys like Sully and Bass settle in to roles that fit their skillsets better.
Offense is not an issue. They need someone who can defend a chair. Preferably, a 7-foot tall chair.

Offense is an issue though.  They have no flow offensively, and go cold too often, as defenses just funnel the ball to the weak link, whether its Collins, Bass, etc.
And yet, they're one of the best offensive teams in the league. Even if we fix everything you suggest is an issue with the offense, we'll still be going nowhere in a handbasket if we keep letting opponents shoot ..450-.500 from the field.
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Offline Chris

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 12:25:30 PM »
They just need more talent in the frontcourt.  Add another legit starter to the frontcourt, and it will keep defenses honest, and open things up more for others, and it will also help guys like Sully and Bass settle in to roles that fit their skillsets better.
Offense is not an issue. They need someone who can defend a chair. Preferably, a 7-foot tall chair.

Offense is an issue though.  They have no flow offensively, and go cold too often, as defenses just funnel the ball to the weak link, whether its Collins, Bass, etc.
And yet, they're one of the best offensive teams in the league. Even if we fix everything you suggest is an issue with the offense, we'll still be going nowhere in a handbasket if we keep letting opponents shoot ..450-.500 from the field.

I am not saying defense isn't an issue.  But I think the offense and the defense is intertwined.

The defense will improve a lot with Bradley back, and as Rondo gets healthy again.  And it will also improve by getting a decent defender up front.  I am not saying go and get an all offense/no defense big man.  But if they can get a guy who is solid on both ends (lets say, Gortat), then it will do wonders for them.

The other thing is if they can improve their offense, their defense will improve as well, because it will slow down the other teams from running off of misses, which has been killing them. 

Offline wdleehi

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 12:27:03 PM »
They just need more talent in the frontcourt.  Add another legit starter to the frontcourt, and it will keep defenses honest, and open things up more for others, and it will also help guys like Sully and Bass settle in to roles that fit their skillsets better.
Offense is not an issue. They need someone who can defend a chair. Preferably, a 7-foot tall chair.

Offense is an issue though.  They have no flow offensively, and go cold too often, as defenses just funnel the ball to the weak link, whether its Collins, Bass, etc.
And yet, they're one of the best offensive teams in the league. Even if we fix everything you suggest is an issue with the offense, we'll still be going nowhere in a handbasket if we keep letting opponents shoot ..450-.500 from the field.


No, they are not.


They were in November.  But as teams got new scouting reports on the Celtics, the teams average in Nov (97 points a game, 47% shooting) has dropped in Dec (93.4 points a game, 44.5% shooting)

A new team should see those rise as the learn to play with each other.  The Celtics are seeing it drop as teams get scouting reports on the team.  This is not a good trend.


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Offline wdleehi

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 12:28:26 PM »
More to the point, the Celtics have issue both ways.  Small patches are not going to work. 



They really need to make a game changing move if they want to open the window this season.


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Offline ManUp

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 12:29:37 PM »
I absolutely do think we need a guy to draw the defense. Terry sometimes struggles when he doesn't have time to plant his feet. Lee obviously isn't comfortable shooting against closing defenders so he's constantly pump faking into a dribble drive/pullup. Pierce doesn't get bothered much by contested shots, but he regularly shoots from a foot behind the 3pt line. Our bigs are the only ones who are consistently open due to their counterparts stopping dribble penetration.  Our guys do get open shots but they're rushed and I think Terry and Lee struggle the most with these.

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 12:30:44 PM »
They just need more talent in the frontcourt.  Add another legit starter to the frontcourt, and it will keep defenses honest, and open things up more for others, and it will also help guys like Sully and Bass settle in to roles that fit their skillsets better.
Offense is not an issue. They need someone who can defend a chair. Preferably, a 7-foot tall chair.

Offense is an issue though.  They have no flow offensively, and go cold too often, as defenses just funnel the ball to the weak link, whether its Collins, Bass, etc.
And yet, they're one of the best offensive teams in the league. Even if we fix everything you suggest is an issue with the offense, we'll still be going nowhere in a handbasket if we keep letting opponents shoot ..450-.500 from the field.


No, they are not.


They were in November.  But as teams got new scouting reports on the Celtics, the teams average in Nov (97 points a game, 47% shooting) has dropped in Dec (93.4 points a game, 44.5% shooting)

A new team should see those rise as the learn to play with each other.  The Celtics are seeing it drop as teams get scouting reports on the team.  This is not a good trend.
And if you take the better half of November they may even be the best in the league... this is just silly. On average, they're still one of the better teams in the league. I'm not judging a team of one individual month of work.
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Offline wdleehi

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Re: How much do the Celtics need someone who can draw the defense?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 12:33:30 PM »
They just need more talent in the frontcourt.  Add another legit starter to the frontcourt, and it will keep defenses honest, and open things up more for others, and it will also help guys like Sully and Bass settle in to roles that fit their skillsets better.
Offense is not an issue. They need someone who can defend a chair. Preferably, a 7-foot tall chair.

Offense is an issue though.  They have no flow offensively, and go cold too often, as defenses just funnel the ball to the weak link, whether its Collins, Bass, etc.
And yet, they're one of the best offensive teams in the league. Even if we fix everything you suggest is an issue with the offense, we'll still be going nowhere in a handbasket if we keep letting opponents shoot ..450-.500 from the field.


No, they are not.


They were in November.  But as teams got new scouting reports on the Celtics, the teams average in Nov (97 points a game, 47% shooting) has dropped in Dec (93.4 points a game, 44.5% shooting)

A new team should see those rise as the learn to play with each other.  The Celtics are seeing it drop as teams get scouting reports on the team.  This is not a good trend.
And if you take the better half of November they may even be the best in the league... this is just silly. On average, they're still one of the better teams in the league. I'm not judging a team of one individual month of work.


I am just looking at the trend.  And the offense is getting worse as the Celtics players should be learning how to play with each other.   



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