Author Topic: Doc will get fired soon  (Read 16369 times)

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Online Donoghus

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Re: Doc will get fired soon
« Reply #150 on: January 04, 2013, 10:58:33 AM »
I doubt it.
Danny and the owners aren't ones to make "panic" moves.

Yup.  That's left to the boards here.


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Offline Chris

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Re: Doc will get fired soon
« Reply #151 on: January 04, 2013, 11:06:29 AM »
I doubt it.
Danny and the owners aren't ones to make "panic" moves.

That's the thing about this organization.  Unlike some other organizations (Nets for example), this organization's motto since Danny took over (well, after he made his first few moves anyways) has been patience.

I know he is kind of known as a trader, but in general he has been very patient, when looking at the big picture.  He has had tremendous patience with Doc, and it has paid off, he has had tremendous patience with players (Perk, Jefferson, Bradley, all increased significantly in value, as he waited it out with them) and it has paid off, and they have been patient with teams that have been left for dead, only to see them rise from the ashes.

At some point, the patience will end.  But, just 30 games (or whatever it is) from being 1 win away from the finals with a beat up team, is nowhere near enough time for them to make a decision.  They will let the season play out, and then decide what to do. 

Offline kozlodoev

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Re: Doc will get fired soon
« Reply #152 on: January 04, 2013, 11:23:35 AM »
Answer me this : Who would we hire in Doc's place?




End of story. We aren't firing Doc Rivers.

One of the Van Gundy boys.  Stan went to the Finals with a team that had less talent than what Doc has had since KG and Ray showed up and is anybody going to argue that Jeff isn't a proven coach?  Even after all the success with Boston the last 6 years, JVG still has a better career winning percentage as a coach than Doc.

Danny Ainge.

Larry Brown, for one last run with this group.

Lawrence Frank.

Nate McMillan.

Avery Johnson.

Flip Saunders.

Jerry Sloan.

Terry Porter.

Now, Ainge wouldn't want to do it and there are, of course, things to pick apart with the rest of that list.  But without even looking hard at any promising young NBA assistants or the college ranks, there's 10 guys Boston could probably get to replace Doc if the team wanted to.

Would any of them do a better job than Doc?  Who knows?  But every one of those guys except Porter and Frank right now have better coaching resumes than Doc did before KG and Ray joined the Celtics.

And let me mention that just as I thought it was stupid for the Lakers to can Mike Brown and the Nets to fire Johnson, it would be ridiculous to fire Doc at this point.  But even more ridiculous is the idea that Doc is the ONE TRUE COACH and that there's no one else in the world that could replace "the precious".

Mike
Really? Everyone but Porter and Frank have won COTY? (it's a funny argument to make regardless, given that half of this list is abject failures that I don't want anywhere close to a team I'm rooting for).
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Offline TripleOT

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Re: Doc will get fired soon
« Reply #153 on: January 04, 2013, 11:25:59 AM »
At some point, the patience will end.  But, just 30 games (or whatever it is) from being 1 win away from the finals with a beat up team, is nowhere near enough time for them to make a decision.  They will let the season play out, and then decide what to do.

I agree they will be patient with Doc, but I'll be shocked if there aren't any trades after January 15th.  If the Cs falter and go something like 9-14 before the trade deadline, I could envision the brain trust going to Pierce and KG and gauging their willingness to play for a contender this year.

If this team can't make the playoffs, or are barely an 8th seed, I don't see them being a contender next year either. They'd get more value for Pierce and KG at the deadline from a team looking for that one last piece to get over the top than in the summer, where teams would be wondering if they'd get even two years from these players. 

I've never been in the Blow It Up camp, but if the Big 2 isn't getting the role player help around them to make this team a contender, either re-shuffle the role players through trades, or move KG/PP for young players and assets. Sitting back is not an option if the Cs are  23-31 at the trade deadline, with 16 of the remaining 28 games on the road.         

Offline TripleOT

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Re: Doc will get fired soon
« Reply #154 on: January 04, 2013, 11:31:24 AM »
Answer me this : Who would we hire in Doc's place?




End of story. We aren't firing Doc Rivers.

One of the Van Gundy boys.  Stan went to the Finals with a team that had less talent than what Doc has had since KG and Ray showed up and is anybody going to argue that Jeff isn't a proven coach?  Even after all the success with Boston the last 6 years, JVG still has a better career winning percentage as a coach than Doc.

Danny Ainge.

Larry Brown, for one last run with this group.

Lawrence Frank.

Nate McMillan.

Avery Johnson.

Flip Saunders.

Jerry Sloan.

Terry Porter.

Now, Ainge wouldn't want to do it and there are, of course, things to pick apart with the rest of that list.  But without even looking hard at any promising young NBA assistants or the college ranks, there's 10 guys Boston could probably get to replace Doc if the team wanted to.

Would any of them do a better job than Doc?  Who knows?  But every one of those guys except Porter and Frank right now have better coaching resumes than Doc did before KG and Ray joined the Celtics.

And let me mention that just as I thought it was stupid for the Lakers to can Mike Brown and the Nets to fire Johnson, it would be ridiculous to fire Doc at this point.  But even more ridiculous is the idea that Doc is the ONE TRUE COACH and that there's no one else in the world that could replace "the precious".

Mike
Really? Everyone but Porter and Frank have won COTY? (it's a funny argument to make regardless, given that half of this list is abject failures that I don't want anywhere close to a team I'm rooting for).

Sloan is too old.  No thanks on Avery.  He's shown in Brooklyn that he can't get it done. Frank is under contract with Detroit.  Porter hasn't had a ton of success, although one could make the argument that he didn't have much of a chance in Phoenix.  Saunders rep has been tarnished with his poor run in Washington, but he does have some history with the Cs as a consulting coach.  I wouldn't want him. No thanks on Next Town Brown either.

Ainge was a very good coach, but if he's having heart issues as a GM, I don't see him heading back to the sideline. I would approve of Nate MacMillan from your list, although I think Doc coaches here as long as he wants to.       

Offline Chris

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Re: Doc will get fired soon
« Reply #155 on: January 04, 2013, 11:39:50 AM »
At some point, the patience will end.  But, just 30 games (or whatever it is) from being 1 win away from the finals with a beat up team, is nowhere near enough time for them to make a decision.  They will let the season play out, and then decide what to do.

I agree they will be patient with Doc, but I'll be shocked if there aren't any trades after January 15th.  If the Cs falter and go something like 9-14 before the trade deadline, I could envision the brain trust going to Pierce and KG and gauging their willingness to play for a contender this year.

If this team can't make the playoffs, or are barely an 8th seed, I don't see them being a contender next year either. They'd get more value for Pierce and KG at the deadline from a team looking for that one last piece to get over the top than in the summer, where teams would be wondering if they'd get even two years from these players. 

I've never been in the Blow It Up camp, but if the Big 2 isn't getting the role player help around them to make this team a contender, either re-shuffle the role players through trades, or move KG/PP for young players and assets. Sitting back is not an option if the Cs are  23-31 at the trade deadline, with 16 of the remaining 28 games on the road.       

Oh yeah, Danny will be working his butt off to try to make a trade, because this team has a HUGE hole and glaring weakness.

I would be mildly surprised if he does anything really dramatic, but I think he is going to try to get the best big man he can get.  I also think he will take calls about blowing it up, but I just am not that confident he would ever get what he needs to pull the trigger on that.

Offline MBunge

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Re: Doc will get fired soon
« Reply #156 on: January 04, 2013, 11:47:27 AM »
Answer me this : Who would we hire in Doc's place?




End of story. We aren't firing Doc Rivers.

One of the Van Gundy boys.  Stan went to the Finals with a team that had less talent than what Doc has had since KG and Ray showed up and is anybody going to argue that Jeff isn't a proven coach?  Even after all the success with Boston the last 6 years, JVG still has a better career winning percentage as a coach than Doc.

Danny Ainge.

Larry Brown, for one last run with this group.

Lawrence Frank.

Nate McMillan.

Avery Johnson.

Flip Saunders.

Jerry Sloan.

Terry Porter.

Now, Ainge wouldn't want to do it and there are, of course, things to pick apart with the rest of that list.  But without even looking hard at any promising young NBA assistants or the college ranks, there's 10 guys Boston could probably get to replace Doc if the team wanted to.

Would any of them do a better job than Doc?  Who knows?  But every one of those guys except Porter and Frank right now have better coaching resumes than Doc did before KG and Ray joined the Celtics.

And let me mention that just as I thought it was stupid for the Lakers to can Mike Brown and the Nets to fire Johnson, it would be ridiculous to fire Doc at this point.  But even more ridiculous is the idea that Doc is the ONE TRUE COACH and that there's no one else in the world that could replace "the precious".

Mike
Really? Everyone but Porter and Frank have won COTY? (it's a funny argument to make regardless, given that half of this list is abject failures that I don't want anywhere close to a team I'm rooting for).

How many games did Doc win to get COTY?  I believe it was 41.  What was Doc's record between that and KG and Ray arriving in Boston?

43-39
44-38
42-40
1-10
45-37
33-49
24-58

How many times did Doc ever win a division title before KG and Ray?  Once.  How many times did he lead a team past the first round of the playoffs?  Never.

So, yeah.  If you compare their overall records and not monkey around by picking ONE thing and pretending that's all that matters, everybody on that list expect Porter and Frank have better coaching resumes right now that Doc did before KG and Ray arrived in Boston.

Oh, and some other COTY winners?

Mike Brown.
Mike Dunleavy.
Mike D'Antoni.
Del Harris.
Don Chaney.
Sam Mitchell.

Yeah, that COTY award is sure definitive proof of coaching greatness.  So, you wouldn't object to Mike Brown replacing Doc?

Mike

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Re: Doc will get fired soon
« Reply #157 on: January 04, 2013, 12:13:13 PM »
Mike you keep reverting back to Doc's record before he got here like none of those other coaches ever had talented teams to be judged on.

Sloan had two of the best players of a generation and won nothing.

Frank had Kidd, Carter and Jefferson in their prime and won nothing.

Avery Johnson had Dirk, Terry, Stackhouse and Josh Howard in their prime and won nothing.

Fact is except for Larry Brown, who is not coming to coach this team, none of the coaches you mentioned have the resume that Doc has or the respect of the players that Doc has.

Could they replace Doc, sure. Should anyone expect a group of players loyal to one coach, to suddenly play much better for a coach they do not want coaching them? I don't think they should believe that would be the logical result.

If Doc had lost the players or control of the clubhouse, he would have to go. That hasn't happened so management will stick with Doc.


 
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