Author Topic: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)  (Read 11110 times)

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Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2013, 09:04:27 AM »

Offline Chris

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2013, 09:17:38 AM »

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.
I don't think Sacto gives up Fredette in the trade, but it would be something I would do.  Think it gives Boston a better chance this year and probably sets it up better going forward as well.  Frankly, I think you could just cut Toronto out of that trade and just do a straight trade without them (since only Lowry is involved).  Financially it still works without Toronto and with or without Jimmer (I think you try to get Jimmer, but if they balk you say ok).

Thus the Boston lineup post-trade would be

PG - Evans, Thomas, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Green
PF - Garnett, Bass, Sullinger, Hayes
C - Cousins, Wilcox, Collins

Seems like a team that would be closer to a title this year since the interior is the teams biggest weakness and that shores up nicely.  It also is a team that is younger and has a higher long term ceiling because of Cousins and Evans immense talent.
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Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2013, 09:23:35 AM »

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I don't like it much for Toronto.

What if it was Calderon instead of Lowry?

I'd like it even better for the Celts if it was Calderon over Lowry. Not sure why so many here are so down on Calderon, but I think he's got great three point range. Something we badly need if you saw tonight's game (minus the 2 Terry treys in the 4th quarter.)

Calderon is one of the worst defending PGs in the NBA (Dan Dickau-esque), and he plays almost strictly on the perimeter.  There's a reason Toronto gave up a lottery pick to acquire Lowry (a very good defender, shooter, passer, and overall scorer.)

I'm in no way interested in Calderon nor defending him, but it's worth pointing out that the Raps have been playing much better lately with Lowry out and Calderon on the floor. 

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2013, 09:26:19 AM »

Offline Chris

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.
I don't think Sacto gives up Fredette in the trade, but it would be something I would do.  Think it gives Boston a better chance this year and probably sets it up better going forward as well.  Frankly, I think you could just cut Toronto out of that trade and just do a straight trade without them (since only Lowry is involved).  Financially it still works without Toronto and with or without Jimmer (I think you try to get Jimmer, but if they balk you say ok).

Thus the Boston lineup post-trade would be

PG - Evans, Thomas, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Green
PF - Garnett, Bass, Sullinger, Hayes
C - Cousins, Wilcox, Collins

Seems like a team that would be closer to a title this year since the interior is the teams biggest weakness and that shores up nicely.  It also is a team that is younger and has a higher long term ceiling because of Cousins and Evans immense talent.

To me, Lowry is the key to the trade, because he takes it from a huge gamble with by far your most valuable asset, to a relatively low risk, high reward trade. 

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2013, 10:17:40 AM »

Online Moranis

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.
I don't think Sacto gives up Fredette in the trade, but it would be something I would do.  Think it gives Boston a better chance this year and probably sets it up better going forward as well.  Frankly, I think you could just cut Toronto out of that trade and just do a straight trade without them (since only Lowry is involved).  Financially it still works without Toronto and with or without Jimmer (I think you try to get Jimmer, but if they balk you say ok).

Thus the Boston lineup post-trade would be

PG - Evans, Thomas, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Green
PF - Garnett, Bass, Sullinger, Hayes
C - Cousins, Wilcox, Collins

Seems like a team that would be closer to a title this year since the interior is the teams biggest weakness and that shores up nicely.  It also is a team that is younger and has a higher long term ceiling because of Cousins and Evans immense talent.

To me, Lowry is the key to the trade, because he takes it from a huge gamble with by far your most valuable asset, to a relatively low risk, high reward trade.
Honestly I'd rather have Evans and Thomas than Lowry.  Lowry is a better rebounder and defender, but he is always hurt and he is no where near the dynamic offensive player Evans is and Thomas is looking like he will be a solid player for a long time. 
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Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2013, 10:26:03 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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I don't see Toronto giving up Lowry for Evans and Thomas.  I'd prefer Lowry, but would probably do the trade with Evans and Thomas. 

I love Rondo, but he's the only real top level trade asset on the Celtics.  Cousins, Evans, Thomas, and Fredette is a pretty good haul for Rondo.  The wild card is Cousins, of course.  If he straightens out and gets the most of his ability, this deal is a slam dunk.  If he doesn't or even worst, plays well until he signs a max deal, and then goes back to the current behavior, this deal is a franchise killer. 

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2013, 10:30:07 AM »

Offline Chris

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.
I don't think Sacto gives up Fredette in the trade, but it would be something I would do.  Think it gives Boston a better chance this year and probably sets it up better going forward as well.  Frankly, I think you could just cut Toronto out of that trade and just do a straight trade without them (since only Lowry is involved).  Financially it still works without Toronto and with or without Jimmer (I think you try to get Jimmer, but if they balk you say ok).

Thus the Boston lineup post-trade would be

PG - Evans, Thomas, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Green
PF - Garnett, Bass, Sullinger, Hayes
C - Cousins, Wilcox, Collins

Seems like a team that would be closer to a title this year since the interior is the teams biggest weakness and that shores up nicely.  It also is a team that is younger and has a higher long term ceiling because of Cousins and Evans immense talent.

To me, Lowry is the key to the trade, because he takes it from a huge gamble with by far your most valuable asset, to a relatively low risk, high reward trade.
Honestly I'd rather have Evans and Thomas than Lowry.  Lowry is a better rebounder and defender, but he is always hurt and he is no where near the dynamic offensive player Evans is and Thomas is looking like he will be a solid player for a long time.

In a vaccuum, I agree.  When you are also banking on Cousins, and giving up Rondo, no thank you. 

Lowry lets you balance the risk with the reward, while Evans is going all in.

Not to mention, Evans is up to be resigned this summer, and it is always bad news to trade away your star for a young guy that needs to be signed.  Kills your leverage. 

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2013, 10:41:44 AM »

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.
I don't think Sacto gives up Fredette in the trade, but it would be something I would do.  Think it gives Boston a better chance this year and probably sets it up better going forward as well.  Frankly, I think you could just cut Toronto out of that trade and just do a straight trade without them (since only Lowry is involved).  Financially it still works without Toronto and with or without Jimmer (I think you try to get Jimmer, but if they balk you say ok).

Thus the Boston lineup post-trade would be

PG - Evans, Thomas, Barbosa
SG - Bradley, Terry
SF - Pierce, Green
PF - Garnett, Bass, Sullinger, Hayes
C - Cousins, Wilcox, Collins

Seems like a team that would be closer to a title this year since the interior is the teams biggest weakness and that shores up nicely.  It also is a team that is younger and has a higher long term ceiling because of Cousins and Evans immense talent.

To me, Lowry is the key to the trade, because he takes it from a huge gamble with by far your most valuable asset, to a relatively low risk, high reward trade.
Honestly I'd rather have Evans and Thomas than Lowry.  Lowry is a better rebounder and defender, but he is always hurt and he is no where near the dynamic offensive player Evans is and Thomas is looking like he will be a solid player for a long time.

In a vaccuum, I agree.  When you are also banking on Cousins, and giving up Rondo, no thank you. 

Lowry lets you balance the risk with the reward, while Evans is going all in.

Not to mention, Evans is up to be resigned this summer, and it is always bad news to trade away your star for a young guy that needs to be signed.  Kills your leverage.

Agreed. Evans would be interesting next to Bradley, especially as this squad is set-up to be a half-court team (Rondo's weakness) as long as Pierce and KG are on the roster. Evans, Bradley, PP, KG, Cousins would be a very tough offensive team, and in my opinion every bit as good defensively as they currently exist.

But this would assume you knew Evans would agree to a reasonable deal this summer (i.e. not be unreasonable, play for the qualifying offer in 13-14, then be a UFA). For what its worth, I don't think he'll get big offers as a RFA, but hard to say what 3 months playing for the Cs could do for him.

Under the circumstances, Evans and Cousins together = very high risk.

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2013, 11:07:07 AM »

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.

I agree his original idea made more sense, largely because I don't see why Toronto gives up on DeRozen.

However, I'd assume the Cs would be more interested in Evans than Lowry. We knew that Ainge has had interest in both Evans and Cousins, and as I note above Evans could thrive next to an off guard who can defend 1s like Bradley.

I guess my point is: if the Cs are going to go down the road of trading Rondo in a deal for Cousins, wouldn't the more likely 'who says no' scenario look more like the below?

Cs trade to SAC: Rondo, Bass and Wilcox
Cs receive from SAC: Evans, Cousins, Garcia and J. Johnson


Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2013, 11:11:10 AM »

Offline Chris

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.

I agree his original idea made more sense, largely because I don't see why Toronto gives up on DeRozen.

However, I'd assume the Cs would be more interested in Evans than Lowry. We knew that Ainge has had interest in both Evans and Cousins, and as I note above Evans could thrive next to an off guard who can defend 1s like Bradley.

I guess my point is: if the Cs are going to go down the road of trading Rondo in a deal for Cousins, wouldn't the more likely 'who says no' scenario look more like the below?

Cs trade to SAC: Rondo, Bass and Wilcox
Cs receive from SAC: Evans, Cousins, Garcia and J. Johnson

You may be right.  And I think that would be pretty tough for Danny to turn down, and adding in Toronto does complicate things.  I just think that is a big risk to basically trade your best player for the core of a terrible team. 

It really comes down to what Danny thinks of Evans at this point, and whether he is still as high on him...particularly playing next to Bradley. 

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2013, 11:35:35 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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Cousins with four straight double doubles since returning from suspension, with his team going 3-1.  His stats-- 16.5/12.5/5.8.

Someone's going to have to blow away the Kings to get him this season.  A pu pu platter of Green and Lee and a pick isn't going to do it. 

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2013, 11:45:54 AM »

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I liked Simmons' original deal better

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl5ydks

I do think Toronto would be the main holdup in the deal, but with Lowry underperforming, Thomas continuing to look solid, and Evans still having the tantalizing star potential, I could see the value making sense...although it would come down to the personal preference of Toronto's GM.

For the C's, I think this is the kind of deal (short of a deal for a superstar like Paul) where you could give up Rondo.  You get a quality youngish PG in return, who may be a step below, but is still decent in Lowry, and you get a flier on a potential star with questionmarks in Cousins.

It also would be the type of deal Sacramento would likely jump at.  Rondo gives them a chance to start to try to win, and make better use of the offensive players they still have.  He also thrives in the up-tempo game they really want to play, and should work well in the pick and roll with Robinson.

I agree his original idea made more sense, largely because I don't see why Toronto gives up on DeRozen.

However, I'd assume the Cs would be more interested in Evans than Lowry. We knew that Ainge has had interest in both Evans and Cousins, and as I note above Evans could thrive next to an off guard who can defend 1s like Bradley.

I guess my point is: if the Cs are going to go down the road of trading Rondo in a deal for Cousins, wouldn't the more likely 'who says no' scenario look more like the below?

Cs trade to SAC: Rondo, Bass and Wilcox
Cs receive from SAC: Evans, Cousins, Garcia and J. Johnson

You may be right.  And I think that would be pretty tough for Danny to turn down, and adding in Toronto does complicate things.  I just think that is a big risk to basically trade your best player for the core of a terrible team. 

It really comes down to what Danny thinks of Evans at this point, and whether he is still as high on him...particularly playing next to Bradley.

Right. Probably not the best plan. But one that to me is more likely than either Simmons' suggestion or the one from the OP.

I do think that in the case I suggest neither team hangs up the phone all that fast.

I'm a believer that the Cs will continue to look for ways to move Rondo for what they see as a preferable overall package, no matter how long he's here.

And despite David Aldridge's very logical point about the Kings hesitance to add salary, I also think this would be a very tough package to turn down....

"NBA Team for Sale: Totally re-locatable team with Flashy Franchise PG on very reasonable deal for 2 more seasons, and 3 recent lottery picks to boot"
 

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2013, 01:25:09 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think I'd rather have Calderon than Lowry.  Calderon is one of the best shooters in the league and would probably average just as many assists as Rondo in this system.

Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2013, 01:54:12 PM »

Online Moranis

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How about this trade?

Boston - Cousins, Bargnani, Calderon, Garcia, Outlaw
Toronto - Evans, Bass, Lee, Fredette, Bos 2013 1st (top 3 prot.)
Sacramento - Rondo, Green, Melo

Not sure any team does this, but I think I'd like Boston's team after that

Guards - Calderon, Bradley, Terry, Barbosa
Wings - Pierce, Garcia, Outlaw
Big Guys - Cousins, Garnett, Bargnani (with Sully, Collins, and Wilcox)

Trade would really beef up the interior and provide a great offensive PG in Calderon (though the backcourt would be a bit small and not exactly awesome defensively)
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Re: 3 Way Deal Bos/Tor/Sac (Simmons Idea)
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2013, 01:57:44 PM »

Offline Chris

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How about this trade?

Boston - Cousins, Bargnani, Calderon, Garcia, Outlaw
Toronto - Evans, Bass, Lee, Fredette, Bos 2013 1st (top 3 prot.)
Sacramento - Rondo, Green, Melo

Not sure any team does this, but I think I'd like Boston's team after that

Guards - Calderon, Bradley, Terry, Barbosa
Wings - Pierce, Garcia, Outlaw
Big Guys - Cousins, Garnett, Bargnani (with Sully, Collins, and Wilcox)

Trade would really beef up the interior and provide a great offensive PG in Calderon (though the backcourt would be a bit small and not exactly awesome defensively)

My problem with this deal is that I think it would leave the team still searching for an identity.  Cousins and Garcia fit with their old, tough, identity, while the other guys really need to play an up pace, offensive game. 

I really hope if Danny does make a trade this year, it is to solidify the teams identity, not to confuse it more. 

 

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