Author Topic: fiscal cliff averted (for now)  (Read 3271 times)

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Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2013, 11:04:47 AM »

Offline Cman

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You were all had folks.

Not sure which folks you are addressing.
I remain quite happy with the job my president is doing.
Seems stock markets around the world are also happy*
:)

*but I give it no more than a month before things get choppy again with uncertainty over the debt ceiling and spending cuts.
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Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2013, 11:06:18 AM »

Online hpantazo

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You were all had folks.

Not sure which folks you are addressing.
I remain quite happy with the job my president is doing.
:)

LOL, yea, no one was had. Obama did pretty much what he said he would do when he ran for this second term in terms of taxes. Whether or not you agree with his plan is another issue.

Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2013, 11:09:05 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Typical Democrats. Run on not raising taxes on the middle and lower classes and then strike a deal where you do it anyway. When is a socially liberal but fiscally conservative third political party going to be formed so that I can actually feel like I am voting for someone I actually want to represent me in government.

Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2013, 11:14:29 AM »

Offline Cman

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the economist with some thoughts on the matter:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/01/fiscal-cliff-deal

They come down hard on both Boehner and Obama, and point out there is still a lot to do (sequestration, debt limit).
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Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2013, 11:29:40 AM »

Offline Chris

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What a joke.  The entire idea of setting up a "fiscal cliff" in the first place was to get serious about deficit reduction.  From what I understand, this deal contains very little in spending cuts, and actually adds to the deficit (and I believe that's even independent of making the Bush tax rates permanent.)

Even if the deal ultimately saves a few billion dollars, it's just a drop in the fiscal bucket.  It's all nonsense.

Yeah, well, this is what happens when all of the politicians care more about the politics than actually getting a real deal done...on both sides. 

Its all a game.  Keep setting imaginary deadlines, and hoping that will get the other side to budge, but never actually sit down and make a deal that makes sense for everyone. 

Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 11:48:32 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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NPR had a guy on late last night that said very concisely and simply (paraphrased), "American politicians are in the same situation a lot of politicians around the world are in right now; if they do their job and initiate higher taxes and comprehensive meaningful spending cuts, they'll get voted out of office."

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Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 11:51:46 AM »

Online hpantazo

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NPR had a guy on late last night that said very concisely and simply (paraphrased), "American politicians are in the same situation a lot of politicians around the world are in right now; if they do their job and initiate higher taxes and comprehensive meaningful spending cuts, they'll get voted out of office."

I think that's exactly right. The correct measure would have been to let the Bush era tax cuts expire, and let the spending cuts take place. If any of them said that and worked toward it, they would be fired.

In retrospect, the Bush era tax cuts should have never even happend. The U.S. government had a surplus that quickly turned into a huge deficit.

Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 11:56:19 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Gotta say, after getting a better idea of what happened here, I'm pretty disappointed.

Having to pay an additional 2% in taxes (SS-tax) is not what I had in mind.  Sure, the rate is just going back to where it was, but I have no interest in paying that much for SS.

Guess the additional money I had planned on diverting to my savings account this year isn't going to happen.  Instead Uncle Sam gets to blow through it.  AWESOME!

Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2013, 11:59:08 AM »

Offline Cman

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NPR had a guy on late last night that said very concisely and simply (paraphrased), "American politicians are in the same situation a lot of politicians around the world are in right now; if they do their job and initiate higher taxes and comprehensive meaningful spending cuts, they'll get voted out of office."

I think that's exactly right. The correct measure would have been to let the Bush era tax cuts expire, and let the spending cuts take place.

Not sure I completely agree. GDP would have taken a big hit. Is the economy stable enough to absorb it? It has certainly improved, but I don't think it is as stable yet as it should. I think a more cautious, slower, approach is what is needed at this point
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Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2013, 12:06:28 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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NPR had a guy on late last night that said very concisely and simply (paraphrased), "American politicians are in the same situation a lot of politicians around the world are in right now; if they do their job and initiate higher taxes and comprehensive meaningful spending cuts, they'll get voted out of office."

You darn right if you raise my taxes I'm coming for your head!

Especially in light of a lack of spending cuts.

Let's go Democrats, the ball is in your court now.  I want to see some SERIOUS spending cuts on entitlements.

Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2013, 12:18:04 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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NPR had a guy on late last night that said very concisely and simply (paraphrased), "American politicians are in the same situation a lot of politicians around the world are in right now; if they do their job and initiate higher taxes and comprehensive meaningful spending cuts, they'll get voted out of office."

You darn right if you raise my taxes I'm coming for your head!

Especially in light of a lack of spending cuts.

And cutting entitlements would've gotten people iced as well.

The point is that both of those issues (raising taxes, cutting entitlements) tend to get people fired.

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Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2013, 12:30:30 PM »

Online slamtheking

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the whole 'fiscal cliff' foolishness should never have come about.  pitiful that we have a congress based on party division instead of individuals that will actually work for the common good of the people.  no doubt we'll be back in this crapfest over the debt ceiling soon enough.

Republicans sticking to their concept of not increasing taxes on the wealthiest 1 percent was pure  S.   With the growing disparity in wealth distribution, I think the rates on the upper earners could reasonably go up a bit--particularly with so many people struggling to find work.

Democrats need to realize there's got to be some spending cuts.  Some of it unfortunately will have to come to entitlement programs AND the Military budget but BOTH parties have got to address the special projects/pork barrel spending they each support.  until the parties come together to start addressing much of the unnecessary spending in govt.

there's plenty of room to compromise if govt leaders actually start to LEAD this country instead of point fingers and blame at each other.  reducing forces in Iraq and Afghanistan will help the budget as would a growing economy (more people making money and getting salary increases -- increasing revenue ---  and less people claiming unemployment and welfare -- decreasing expenses).

As for the Soc Sec tax rate going back up -- no surprise there.  hard to argue with it either.  people will need it and having pumped in quite a bit of my pay over the years, I expect it to be financially viable when I retire.  if it's not, that amounts to govt theft of the monies everyone has paid into that fund.

Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2013, 02:12:36 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Here is Warren Buffet's 'plan' to end the deficit:

You just pass a law that says that any time there's a deficit of more than 3 percent of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. Yeah. Yeah. Now you've got the incentives in the right place, right? So it's capable of being done. And they're trying to use the incentive, 'Now we're going to blow your brains out, America, you know, in terms of your debt worthiness over time,' and that's being used as a threat. A more effective threat would be just to say if you guys can't get it done, we'll get some other guys to get it down.

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Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2013, 02:32:10 PM »

Online hpantazo

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Here is Warren Buffet's 'plan' to end the deficit:

You just pass a law that says that any time there's a deficit of more than 3 percent of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. Yeah. Yeah. Now you've got the incentives in the right place, right? So it's capable of being done. And they're trying to use the incentive, 'Now we're going to blow your brains out, America, you know, in terms of your debt worthiness over time,' and that's being used as a threat. A more effective threat would be just to say if you guys can't get it done, we'll get some other guys to get it down.

I'm in support of the idea that there should be a 2 term limit for all senators and state representatives in general. Force them to work for results for the country's benefit rather than future political gain. Get more ordinary people in there with increased turnover too.

Re: fiscal cliff averted (for now)
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2013, 02:49:30 PM »

Offline Chris

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Here is Warren Buffet's 'plan' to end the deficit:

You just pass a law that says that any time there's a deficit of more than 3 percent of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. Yeah. Yeah. Now you've got the incentives in the right place, right? So it's capable of being done. And they're trying to use the incentive, 'Now we're going to blow your brains out, America, you know, in terms of your debt worthiness over time,' and that's being used as a threat. A more effective threat would be just to say if you guys can't get it done, we'll get some other guys to get it down.

The problem with this, is that instead of balancing the needs of the country, it puts congress in tunnelvision to fix that one problem, and likely hurts everything else.

It might work in the short-term to get things on track, but it could really hurt the country longterm. 

Or to put it another way, anytime you tie a highly skilled position (which being a congressman or senator is) to firm metrics, all you do is create a situation where they will work to meet the metrics, often at the expense of doing a good job overall, and the organization suffers.

 

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