Author Topic: Worst possible scenario...  (Read 6562 times)

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Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2013, 04:14:13 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I remember us trading Chauncey Billups because he wasn't cutting it or we wanted more immediate results.

I also remember us trading Joe Johnson so we could get Rodney Rodgers for the playoff run which ended short of a championship.

Billups showed some flashes while he was here - yet he was inconsistent.

Joe Johnson put up some 15, 6 & 6 type games as basically a Junior or Senior in college while he was here - showed some flashes of what might come with a little time.

I loved Bradley from day one because he had a game changing mental attitude to the game - pit bull defense. I also believed his offense was very underrated - you could tell by his stroke that he should be a decent shooter - he was just nervous and needed some time.

If you have a rookie putting up intermittent game of 16 points and 8 boards and he's actually really only a Junior of Senior in college - I would be hesitant to trade that kid. I don't look at Sullinger's value based on what he's doing right now today. I base it on the following:

1. What will he be like in the paint with about 15 pounds more upper body muscle after hitting weights for two years and most likely a bit more speed and lift because of that extra overall strength and less fat.

2. What will he be doing once he learns how to use that weight more effectively and once he stops getting all the rookie calls?     

The answer for me is an easy 15/10 guy 9 whether starting or off the bench) and most likely a 20/10 guy - with a a little bit of a mean streak in him. I like that - a lot.

Melo - hated the pick. But after getting a chance to watch him play a few D-League games?
* great lateral quickness for a 7 footer
* Long and has good timing on blocks
* Most interesting to me is his form and stoke on free throws - it is not good, it is "excellent". That is going to translate into a very effective 12-15 foot face up jump shot in 1-2 years. If that happens Melo is a walking double double at Center and probably will settle with number like 18 / 8 and 3-4 blocks - with good overall defense in the paint.

I'm in no rush to trade a young rookie who just averaged:
20 points, 11 rebounds & 9 blocks over three games - D-League or not. That is showing us a flash of what he's learned and adjusted to going from College level talent in Zone concepts to better level D-League talent while learning man defense for the first time.

I'm in no rush at all - not yet.

These three guys are barely sniffing what they potentially can do and we've got them "cheap" for the next five years.

No, make a Bass plus picks move for a another big man (I agree with Nostar and I'd rather keep Lee than Bass) and when Cap comes off with Pierce and KG start adding major chips to this young core.

it's a win win for me.

The only way I trade these kids right now is for something that is a KG type deal.

Rondo plus Sully, Melo picks, etc..  for a real, true legit, young franchise player. Rondo is a legit piece of a trio that can bring you a ring - but he's not the guy who's going to drop 25 a night for the next 10 years - we need to find "that" guy in any potential blockbuster trade where we give up a bunch of our young talent.

For all we know Melo could just as effective or moreso than Gortat in 2 years.

Time, patience...

This current team is not nearly as far away from being dominant again as many of us think, including me at times so far this year. 


Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2013, 04:20:07 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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and I'm not advocating to trade Rondo. But I would "consider" it if it meant we landed a true Franshise player in return - a young KG type player. I s Cousins that, not for me. Though I understand the interest.

Ideally, we keep Rondo, Bradley,Lee & Green if he grows, Sully, Melo and add major chips around that core as we get cap space from Pierce and KG.

I'm all in on that program.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2013, 04:48:34 PM »

Online jambr380

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I think everyone agrees that if we can turn Bass, Lee, and picks into something useful, we do it. I know there are plenty of people down on Green, too, but he is our only current sf going forward and unless you replace him in a deal, you keep him and let his stock keep rising [hopefully].

Ainge signed all of these guys this year because he was able to with Bird rights, not because he envisioned them all being integral parts of this team. He will make a move for a big man and hopefully it will be with Bass and Lee [who I actually like, he is just a bit redundant with Avery and Terry], not Bradley and Sullinger...

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2013, 05:11:43 PM »

Online LooseCannon

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Ainge signed all of these guys this year because he was able to with Bird rights, not because he envisioned them all being integral parts of this team.

I suspect Ainge was thinking ahead and was planning on doing some wheeling and dealing in the summers of 2014 and 2015 because he didn't think there was much he could do before then.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2013, 05:24:50 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I remember us trading Chauncey Billups because he wasn't cutting it or we wanted more immediate results.

I also remember us trading Joe Johnson so we could get Rodney Rodgers for the playoff run which ended short of a championship.

Billups showed some flashes while he was here - yet he was inconsistent.

Joe Johnson put up some 15, 6 & 6 type games as basically a Junior or Senior in college while he was here - showed some flashes of what might come with a little time.

I loved Bradley from day one because he had a game changing mental attitude to the game - pit bull defense. I also believed his offense was very underrated - you could tell by his stroke that he should be a decent shooter - he was just nervous and needed some time.

If you have a rookie putting up intermittent game of 16 points and 8 boards and he's actually really only a Junior of Senior in college - I would be hesitant to trade that kid. I don't look at Sullinger's value based on what he's doing right now today. I base it on the following:

1. What will he be like in the paint with about 15 pounds more upper body muscle after hitting weights for two years and most likely a bit more speed and lift because of that extra overall strength and less fat.

2. What will he be doing once he learns how to use that weight more effectively and once he stops getting all the rookie calls?     

The answer for me is an easy 15/10 guy 9 whether starting or off the bench) and most likely a 20/10 guy - with a a little bit of a mean streak in him. I like that - a lot.

Melo - hated the pick. But after getting a chance to watch him play a few D-League games?
* great lateral quickness for a 7 footer
* Long and has good timing on blocks
* Most interesting to me is his form and stoke on free throws - it is not good, it is "excellent". That is going to translate into a very effective 12-15 foot face up jump shot in 1-2 years. If that happens Melo is a walking double double at Center and probably will settle with number like 18 / 8 and 3-4 blocks - with good overall defense in the paint.

I'm in no rush to trade a young rookie who just averaged:
20 points, 11 rebounds & 9 blocks over three games - D-League or not. That is showing us a flash of what he's learned and adjusted to going from College level talent in Zone concepts to better level D-League talent while learning man defense for the first time.

I'm in no rush at all - not yet.

These three guys are barely sniffing what they potentially can do and we've got them "cheap" for the next five years.

No, make a Bass plus picks move for a another big man (I agree with Nostar and I'd rather keep Lee than Bass) and when Cap comes off with Pierce and KG start adding major chips to this young core.

it's a win win for me.

The only way I trade these kids right now is for something that is a KG type deal.

Rondo plus Sully, Melo picks, etc..  for a real, true legit, young franchise player. Rondo is a legit piece of a trio that can bring you a ring - but he's not the guy who's going to drop 25 a night for the next 10 years - we need to find "that" guy in any potential blockbuster trade where we give up a bunch of our young talent.

For all we know Melo could just as effective or moreso than Gortat in 2 years.

Time, patience...

This current team is not nearly as far away from being dominant again as many of us think, including me at times so far this year.

Nice post.  The part about Gortat I agree, I think Fab will be every bit as good in TWO years.  Big Centers are so hard to come by, I just think trading Melo away would be a very regretable in the long run. He has the correct attitude and wants to susceed.

I'd just soon keep the rookies and deveolpe them , than to trade Melo , Sully and AB for an average journeyman player that suck no body else wants.  He have TOO many of these clowns all ready... LEE , BASS, Wilcox , collins....dump these guys  ..NOT the good kids.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2013, 06:04:27 PM »

Offline celtics2

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SOS man the lifeboats, this Boat of Bloat is headin down faster than the Dollar. Doc has been exposed. Rondo 2 points.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2013, 06:33:32 PM »

Online Who

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Fab Melo seems to have really good physical talent but does he have the mentality to go with that? A physical and mental toughness? An intelligence for reading the game defensively?

Or is he more a Dalembert type who had (past tense) great physical talent but was lacking in all of those areas.

I wonder if Fab Melo projects more as a solid but below average starting center to high level backup rather than comparing him (down the road) to someone like a Marcin Gortat. Fab Melo being more of an 8ppg, 6rpg and 2-3bpg in 24-26mpg type talent.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2013, 06:54:36 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Fab Melo seems to have really good physical talent but does he have the mentality to go with that? A physical and mental toughness? An intelligence for reading the game defensively?

Or is he more a Dalembert type who had (past tense) great physical talent but was lacking in all of those areas.

I wonder if Fab Melo projects more as a solid but below average starting center to high level backup rather than comparing him (down the road) to someone like a Marcin Gortat. Fab Melo being more of an 8ppg, 6rpg and 2-3bpg in 24-26mpg type talent.

Agree.  I like his physical tools and his attitude, but it's unfair to project him as anything more than an eventual role player at this point.  He's raw and he has a long, long way to go.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2013, 07:01:55 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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and I'm not advocating to trade Rondo. But I would "consider" it if it meant we landed a true Franshise player in return - a young KG type player.

can you name me one young kg type player? there are exactly 0 of those guys.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2013, 07:06:36 PM »

Online jambr380

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Ainge signed all of these guys this year because he was able to with Bird rights, not because he envisioned them all being integral parts of this team.

I suspect Ainge was thinking ahead and was planning on doing some wheeling and dealing in the summers of 2014 and 2015 because he didn't think there was much he could do before then.

That makes the most sense since all of these guys are on [around] 4 year deals. He obviously wanted to keep above the salary cap and maintain quality players, but probably wasn't overly psyched about the length of the contracts...he will definitely be 'trying' to make deals with these guys, though.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2013, 07:08:54 PM »

Offline scaryjerry

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Dalembert is an extra body you sign of the scrap heap, not the guy you trade for to start at C. 

The most I'd be willing to give up for Dalembert is Bass and a 1st round pick. I'm not moving Courtney Lee (his performance is way better than people are saying)
and ten times worse than what we expected/need...hence our desperation for Avery Bradley...face it Lee has stunk

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2013, 07:24:05 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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No I can't name you a young KG type player outside of the obvious guys: Griffin (maybe), Durant, LeBron, etc...

My point is I'd be very reluctant to trade away young developing talent for someone like Gortat, who's currently averaging 11 points and 8 rebounds a night - I think Sullinger could be averaging that by the end of the season by himself. I mean, he would be a big upgrade over what we have now at Center but I don't see him as a linchpin for a championship team moving forward.

Cousins is talent wise but he's just a real risk. If I'm giving up young guy or two I'd rather do it to get Josh Smith - more of a potential impact player than Gortat.

I'd rather a smallish move for a half decent big man, keep building and developing our young guys.
 

 

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2013, 08:00:17 PM »

Offline syfy9

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No I can't name you a young KG type player outside of the obvious guys: Griffin (maybe), Durant, LeBron, etc...

My point is I'd be very reluctant to trade away young developing talent for someone like Gortat, who's currently averaging 11 points and 8 rebounds a night - I think Sullinger could be averaging that by the end of the season by himself. I mean, he would be a big upgrade over what we have now at Center but I don't see him as a linchpin for a championship team moving forward.

Cousins is talent wise but he's just a real risk. If I'm giving up young guy or two I'd rather do it to get Josh Smith - more of a potential impact player than Gortat.

I'd rather a smallish move for a half decent big man, keep building and developing our young guys.

We would get Gortat to help our interior defense. He's a prolific shot blocker, something we really need.
I like Marcus Smart

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2013, 06:35:41 AM »

Offline mctyson

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In my mind worse case is we do nothing, end up being a .500 team and delay the rebuilding process again. NBA hell=to good for a top pick, to bad to contend

There are no players in next years draft worth being a lottery team.  Look at Charlotte and Washington - you don't want to be those frachises.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2013, 09:08:22 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Doc doesn't like this team. KG and PP don't like it either. IF they get into the playoffs..it will be a low seed vs a really good team round one...

I don't see this team magically turning things around...i expect a lot more nights like the ones we have seen the past 9 games....

Green, Terry, Bass and Lee are just so disappointing.
“The rim is looking bigger and bigger every game.”

 Paul Pierce

 

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