Author Topic: Worst possible scenario...  (Read 6387 times)

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Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2013, 12:50:36 AM »

Offline kg is king

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Remind me why any team would want Courtney Lee or Jeff Green. Yes we would like to give them up because they're clearly not difference makers on the court. But other team's GMs aren't blind. They will not give up their assets for two scrubs.
"Don't trade AB, Sully, or Fab"
Well unless we trade them, we're not gonna get anything of value in return. What you are suggesting is not a trade, it's a proposal to be laughed at by other GMs.
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Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2013, 01:00:02 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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TP to the OP I agree that we should not rebuild via the trade route this time. We are already in the reloading mode, dont change that to a blow it up rebuild. At this point I am okay with fielding a competitive team with a good run in the playoffs that looks attractive to free agents.

Dont look yet, but with Rondo, Sully, Melo and Bradley the Celtics are already reloading - no need for a rebuild.

Lets put a competitive team on the court and wait until our two superstars retire then we replace them with one or two mega stars and we are right back in the mix.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2013, 11:16:24 AM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I only view the Green, Lee and two 1st round picks as a small trade because I don't highly value those two players for "our" team.

However, if I'm a GM with a guy who wants to walk and who I'll probably lose, getting a serviceable off guard for my rotation in Lee, a potential starting SF in JG and a couple 1st round picks that are most likely middle of the road picks, I would consider it. There are a lot of factors.
* I do think Green could be a starting small forward but he has to get 35-38 minutes a night - I don't know if his make up is as a bench guy. Didn't he post his best numbers as a starter in the past?

TP to Ogaju - your post summarizes in one small paragraph my thoughts - exactly.

1. I would not mortgage our young guys to put someone next to KG and Pierce so they can "get" one more right now.   

2. I would try to make a small trade - the one I'd pursue heaviest would be Lee and a pick if necessary for Dalembert. We just need another half legit 7 foot body inside - along with Bradley outside - and this team will be dramatically better - and in my opinion pressing Miami for the spot in the finals again.

3. Keep your young core of Melo, Sully, Green,Bradley, Rondo and Joseph if possible.

4. Go to the Lottery for one year if you have to

5. Once KG and Pierce come off the books, go after the Josh Smith's as they come available - or whoever you think your guy is.
* That is a very good young core of players to begin rebuilding around and if you do it right you could be back in business in 1-3 years, big time.

Stay competitive now - keep the eye on the long game with holding onto our young guys.

Particularly until they develop more. Both melo and Sully may be infinitely more valuable in a potential trade 18-24 months from now.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2013, 11:43:29 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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The worst outcome to our struggles would be that Ainge, Doc and company panic and blow this thing up now.

1. We don't need to blow it up
2. We don't need to trade all our young, promising talent for a head case in DeMarcus Cousins (Though I do agree he's worth the risk for the right price)

What we need to do is make a small trade, for example:

1. Courtney Lee and a pick for Samuel Dalembert, who is playing exactly Zero minutes in Milwaukee.

2. Jeff Green, Courtney Lee and two 1st round picks for Gortat and a back up small forward.


We should not trade Sullinger: he will easily be a 15/10 or possibly a 20/10 guy in short order. Once the kid hits the weights hard and learns how to use his body even more than does already in the paint? Game over down there.

We should not trade Bradley: He is an elite defender at the 1, 2 and sometimes the 3 position depending on the size of the 3. His offense is coming and his personality "screams" old school Boston Celtic player

We should not trade Fab Melo "yet" NBA or D-League, putting up games like he did of 14/15/16 followed by another game of 32, 9 & 9 is showing us a "flash" of what he can do. Give him more time.
* Great lateral quickness
* Good timing on blocks
* True seven footer
* Stamina up and down the court
* Watch his foul shot - the way he shoots, his follow through - anyone who knows basketball can tell you that is going to translate into a 'very" nice 12-15 foot jump shot in time. He's already starting to show it.

Lastly Sullinger, melo and Bradley are all like "model" citizens and hard working, good young kids. That is not that easy to find.

Also, consider how will the length and quickness of Melo, combined with the strength and toughness of Sullinger look together in 1-2 years? I think it could be very, very good.

Trade Green, Bass, Lee, etc + a pick or two - that should get you some kind of serviceable center - do NOT give away the farm for Demarcus Cousins - what kidn of headcase will he be with a $12 million contract if he's already one with a $3 million contract?       

Keep the young talent, figure out a way to get a decent center with a small trade.

I really like the Dalembert trade. Milwaukee could also use an off guard with some half decent size in Courtney Lee to go with Ellis and Jennings. They are not using Dalembert at all.

Dalembert / Wilcox / Collins
KG / Sully / Bass 
Pierce / Green / Joseph
Bradley / Terry / Joseph
Rondo / Barbosa

That's not a small trade.

Good point. If we could move green, lee, and two firsts for gortat and Beasley I do that in a second. Highly doubt the suns would want any part of that. Looks like a three team deal if anything would be needed.
DKC: GM Boston Celtics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuCTllmkG26udHRaa0xrWm1qZTExaHltaEdtZzVRNFE&usp=sharing#gid=50
PG:Rondo/Miller/Udrih/Dinwiddle
SG:Afflalo/Williams/Delladova
SF:Green/Young
PF:Hill/Powell
C:Hibbert/Nurcik/Bynum

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2013, 11:59:01 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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I agree with the small Lee for Dalembert trade. However...

Quote
Say we deal Bradley, Melo and Sullinger for Cousins and in two weeks KG's knee goes out.  We've doomed ourselves to years of below .500 ball.  Our only real asset Cousins probably becomes the head case for us he was in SacTown and KG, Terry and Pierce decide to retire rather than deal with the prospect of playing out two more .500 seasons.
 

I do not agree that we would be doomed for year below .500. For all the problems that come with cousins he is a top 5 center in the NBA and only 22. If Doc can handle both Rondo and Cousins the Cs would have a foundation of a top 5 center and top 5 PG hardly doomed.





Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 12:03:37 PM »

Offline nostar

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Dalembert is an extra body you sign of the scrap heap, not the guy you trade for to start at C. 

You know for some reason I agree. I would take Dalembert if that was the best we could get because I do think he's better than Jason Collins but I think we should look for a bigger move. The most I'd be willing to give up for Dalembert is Bass and a 1st round pick. I'm not moving Courtney Lee (his performance is way better than people are saying it is). I'd move Bass for Dalembert because I'm not impressed with Bass this year and I think we way overpayed for his skill set.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 12:06:09 PM »

Offline Chris

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Dalembert is an extra body you sign of the scrap heap, not the guy you trade for to start at C. 

You know for some reason I agree. I would take Dalembert if that was the best we could get because I do think he's better than Jason Collins but I think we should look for a bigger move. The most I'd be willing to give up for Dalembert is Bass and a 1st round pick. I'm not moving Courtney Lee (his performance is way better than people are saying it is). I'd move Bass for Dalembert because I'm not impressed with Bass this year and I think we way overpayed for his skill set.

Yeah, I think Dalembert is a panic move.  Explore every other option first. 

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 12:12:26 PM »

Offline Who

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I like Dalembert more as a backup center than a starter if he came here.

I don't think he's good enough anymore to justify a starting spot in the Celtics lineup. I think they are better off sticking with more skilled bigs starting with Garnett at center alongside Bass or Sully at PF.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2013, 12:22:15 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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DAlembert is more of a lateral change , every so slight up grade. 

I'm hoping DA will dump some of the dead baggage and get at least Gortat (if thats the best he can ) :-\.  Maybe Fab will be useful next year for some backup minutes.


Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2013, 02:14:49 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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If we could move Bass and a pick for a decent seven footer, be it Dalembert or something a bit better, I would be 100% fine with that as well. I'm not down on Lee - I like his effort and his shot will probably come around. I also don't mind a two guard rotation of Bradley and Lee moving forward. 

I just don't want to give up our young guys yet unless it's slam dunk. For example, if Cousins wasn't as "big" of a head case as he appears and we felt confident he wouldn't be a problem, then yes, I'd be more comfortable moving some young guys to get him. But I understand the interest, no question.

Getting Josh Smith (though i'd like to think we can sign him somehow in the off season without having to give something up for him now - especially if he apparently "would like" to play here with Rondo...) or Gortat while giving up a young chip or two is another story. Those guys produce and aren't difficult personalities by all accounts - it seems safer. Then it's just a question of how much you have to give up to get them, if you can...

Outside of some kind of slam dunk deal like that, I much prefer the smaller bass + pick type of deal for another half legit 7 footer - keep developing our young guys. 

 

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2013, 02:52:57 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Dalembert is an extra body you sign of the scrap heap, not the guy you trade for to start at C. 



If the Celtics make a trade, they should be taking some of their depth and using it to bring back a single better player.

Totally agree, and totally disagree with the OP's assessment of our "youth."

What it is is depth, and it should be aggressively shopped - including Bradley, who is wildly overrated on this board - for immediate help, which includes Cousins.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2013, 02:59:47 PM »

Offline clover

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If it came down to a Dalembert upgrade I'd rather see them tank by force-feeding Fab minutes after the AS break.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2013, 03:04:10 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I agree a small trade is the way to go. The only players I want to move are Lee and Bass. I think we should take a first round pick and pair them with both or one of those guys to see what bigs we can get. I think Dalembert would help a lot.

Ditto. My first preference is Gortat, but I think Dalembert would be a good addition too. Dalembert, if given starter's minutes (30+), could be good for 10 pts, 10 reb, and 2 blks a game, which is much better than Bass' 8 pts, 5-6 reb, and less than 1 blk a game.
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Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2013, 03:30:48 PM »

Offline danglertx

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Dalembert is an extra body you sign of the scrap heap, not the guy you trade for to start at C. 



If the Celtics make a trade, they should be taking some of their depth and using it to bring back a single better player.

Totally agree, and totally disagree with the OP's assessment of our "youth."

What it is is depth, and it should be aggressively shopped - including Bradley, who is wildly overrated on this board - for immediate help, which includes Cousins.

We were a .500 team last year when Bradley became a starter and then we went on to have one of the best, if not the best, second halves in the NBA. 

If Bradley isn't the answer, we will have two weeks to find that out before we can really make any trades since most of our parts can't be dealt until Jan 15th.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2013, 04:02:37 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Dalembert is an extra body you sign of the scrap heap, not the guy you trade for to start at C. 

You know for some reason I agree. I would take Dalembert if that was the best we could get because I do think he's better than Jason Collins but I think we should look for a bigger move. The most I'd be willing to give up for Dalembert is Bass and a 1st round pick. I'm not moving Courtney Lee (his performance is way better than people are saying it is). I'd move Bass for Dalembert because I'm not impressed with Bass this year and I think we way overpayed for his skill set.

Yeah, I think Dalembert is a panic move.  Explore every other option first.

I agree, though I would certainly trade Bass for him. Sadly, the Bucks wouldn't.

 

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