Author Topic: Worst possible scenario...  (Read 10127 times)

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Worst possible scenario...
« on: January 01, 2013, 04:54:00 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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The worst outcome to our struggles would be that Ainge, Doc and company panic and blow this thing up now.

1. We don't need to blow it up
2. We don't need to trade all our young, promising talent for a head case in DeMarcus Cousins (Though I do agree he's worth the risk for the right price)

What we need to do is make a small trade, for example:

1. Courtney Lee and a pick for Samuel Dalembert, who is playing exactly Zero minutes in Milwaukee.

2. Jeff Green, Courtney Lee and two 1st round picks for Gortat and a back up small forward.


We should not trade Sullinger: he will easily be a 15/10 or possibly a 20/10 guy in short order. Once the kid hits the weights hard and learns how to use his body even more than does already in the paint? Game over down there.

We should not trade Bradley: He is an elite defender at the 1, 2 and sometimes the 3 position depending on the size of the 3. His offense is coming and his personality "screams" old school Boston Celtic player

We should not trade Fab Melo "yet" NBA or D-League, putting up games like he did of 14/15/16 followed by another game of 32, 9 & 9 is showing us a "flash" of what he can do. Give him more time.
* Great lateral quickness
* Good timing on blocks
* True seven footer
* Stamina up and down the court
* Watch his foul shot - the way he shoots, his follow through - anyone who knows basketball can tell you that is going to translate into a 'very" nice 12-15 foot jump shot in time. He's already starting to show it.

Lastly Sullinger, melo and Bradley are all like "model" citizens and hard working, good young kids. That is not that easy to find.

Also, consider how will the length and quickness of Melo, combined with the strength and toughness of Sullinger look together in 1-2 years? I think it could be very, very good.

Trade Green, Bass, Lee, etc + a pick or two - that should get you some kind of serviceable center - do NOT give away the farm for Demarcus Cousins - what kidn of headcase will he be with a $12 million contract if he's already one with a $3 million contract?       

Keep the young talent, figure out a way to get a decent center with a small trade.

I really like the Dalembert trade. Milwaukee could also use an off guard with some half decent size in Courtney Lee to go with Ellis and Jennings. They are not using Dalembert at all.

Dalembert / Wilcox / Collins
KG / Sully / Bass 
Pierce / Green / Joseph
Bradley / Terry / Joseph
Rondo / Barbosa

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2013, 05:59:10 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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The worst outcome to our struggles would be that Ainge, Doc and company panic and blow this thing up now.

1. We don't need to blow it up
2. We don't need to trade all our young, promising talent for a head case in DeMarcus Cousins (Though I do agree he's worth the risk for the right price)

What we need to do is make a small trade, for example:

1. Courtney Lee and a pick for Samuel Dalembert, who is playing exactly Zero minutes in Milwaukee.

2. Jeff Green, Courtney Lee and two 1st round picks for Gortat and a back up small forward.


We should not trade Sullinger: he will easily be a 15/10 or possibly a 20/10 guy in short order. Once the kid hits the weights hard and learns how to use his body even more than does already in the paint? Game over down there.

We should not trade Bradley: He is an elite defender at the 1, 2 and sometimes the 3 position depending on the size of the 3. His offense is coming and his personality "screams" old school Boston Celtic player

We should not trade Fab Melo "yet" NBA or D-League, putting up games like he did of 14/15/16 followed by another game of 32, 9 & 9 is showing us a "flash" of what he can do. Give him more time.
* Great lateral quickness
* Good timing on blocks
* True seven footer
* Stamina up and down the court
* Watch his foul shot - the way he shoots, his follow through - anyone who knows basketball can tell you that is going to translate into a 'very" nice 12-15 foot jump shot in time. He's already starting to show it.

Lastly Sullinger, melo and Bradley are all like "model" citizens and hard working, good young kids. That is not that easy to find.

Also, consider how will the length and quickness of Melo, combined with the strength and toughness of Sullinger look together in 1-2 years? I think it could be very, very good.

Trade Green, Bass, Lee, etc + a pick or two - that should get you some kind of serviceable center - do NOT give away the farm for Demarcus Cousins - what kidn of headcase will he be with a $12 million contract if he's already one with a $3 million contract?       

Keep the young talent, figure out a way to get a decent center with a small trade.

I really like the Dalembert trade. Milwaukee could also use an off guard with some half decent size in Courtney Lee to go with Ellis and Jennings. They are not using Dalembert at all.

Dalembert / Wilcox / Collins
KG / Sully / Bass 
Pierce / Green / Joseph
Bradley / Terry / Joseph
Rondo / Barbosa

I like your 2nd trade a lot. They want out of Beasley's contract, so we would have to take it, in my opinion, if we want Gortat (which I do).

Only problem is that Sarver likes $$$, rookie contracts, picks and expirings. We have the first three, but may have to get a 3rd team involved if he insists on expirings.

TP for the post.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2013, 06:20:04 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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The worst outcome to our struggles would be that Ainge, Doc and company panic and blow this thing up now.

1. We don't need to blow it up
2. We don't need to trade all our young, promising talent for a head case in DeMarcus Cousins (Though I do agree he's worth the risk for the right price)

What we need to do is make a small trade, for example:

1. Courtney Lee and a pick for Samuel Dalembert, who is playing exactly Zero minutes in Milwaukee.

2. Jeff Green, Courtney Lee and two 1st round picks for Gortat and a back up small forward.


We should not trade Sullinger: he will easily be a 15/10 or possibly a 20/10 guy in short order. Once the kid hits the weights hard and learns how to use his body even more than does already in the paint? Game over down there.

We should not trade Bradley: He is an elite defender at the 1, 2 and sometimes the 3 position depending on the size of the 3. His offense is coming and his personality "screams" old school Boston Celtic player

We should not trade Fab Melo "yet" NBA or D-League, putting up games like he did of 14/15/16 followed by another game of 32, 9 & 9 is showing us a "flash" of what he can do. Give him more time.
* Great lateral quickness
* Good timing on blocks
* True seven footer
* Stamina up and down the court
* Watch his foul shot - the way he shoots, his follow through - anyone who knows basketball can tell you that is going to translate into a 'very" nice 12-15 foot jump shot in time. He's already starting to show it.

Lastly Sullinger, melo and Bradley are all like "model" citizens and hard working, good young kids. That is not that easy to find.

Also, consider how will the length and quickness of Melo, combined with the strength and toughness of Sullinger look together in 1-2 years? I think it could be very, very good.

Trade Green, Bass, Lee, etc + a pick or two - that should get you some kind of serviceable center - do NOT give away the farm for Demarcus Cousins - what kidn of headcase will he be with a $12 million contract if he's already one with a $3 million contract?       

Keep the young talent, figure out a way to get a decent center with a small trade.

I really like the Dalembert trade. Milwaukee could also use an off guard with some half decent size in Courtney Lee to go with Ellis and Jennings. They are not using Dalembert at all.

Dalembert / Wilcox / Collins
KG / Sully / Bass 
Pierce / Green / Joseph
Bradley / Terry / Joseph
Rondo / Barbosa

I like your 2nd trade a lot. They want out of Beasley's contract, so we would have to take it, in my opinion, if we want Gortat (which I do).

Only problem is that Sarver likes $$$, rookie contracts, picks and expirings. We have the first three, but may have to get a 3rd team involved if he insists on expirings.

TP for the post.


(1) Lee + Second rounder for Dalembert
(2) Green + second rounder for Jeff Green

...does that get us there? I think we really need more at Center that Dalembert brings. Dalembert is certainly "cheaper" and probably an easier pick up.

But I see, and approve of, your thinking.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2013, 06:33:34 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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In my mind worse case is we do nothing, end up being a .500 team and delay the rebuilding process again. NBA hell=to good for a top pick, to bad to contend

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2013, 11:11:14 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Thanks for the replies.

I'd be Ok with either trade and actually prefer the Dalembert one - main reason is i think he has one year left on his contract.

Would either of these trades get us there?...

I actually think this team is a lot closer to being dominant than all of us are giving them credit for - regardless of their miserable play to this point.

Give me three things:

1. Avery Bradley back hawking the other team's best guard and disrupting their offense by about 7-10 seconds, on average, on every trip down the court. He will also sure up our perimeter D, big time.

2. A legit, half decent seven footer who's long and can affect shots around the rim. Enter Dalembert - he and KG together would quickly become a very formidable duo in the paint.

Bradley on the outside, Dalembert at the rim with KG. This team has always done very well whenever we just have a half legit big man who can eat space in the middle.

3. Move Terry back to the bench permanently.


To ScottHow: I 100% agree with you re NBA hell and being a .500 team.

My thinking is this:

1. Get me Dalembert and get Bradley Bradley back - I think we'll all be "very" suprised at how much this changes things.

2. I think if we trade Sully, Melo and Bradley for a quick fix to try and get KG and Pierce another ring this year we will be shooting ourselves in the foot and will greatly regret it 2 years from now.

3. I think no matter what, we are a long shot to win the ring this year.

4. Therefore, get Dalembert and go all in with the team as is.

If we stink this year and KG retires and Pierce follows or wants a trade to play out the string...

A) We now go into the rebuilding process with:

Melo
Sullinger
Green (though I'd trade him if I could...)
Bradley / Joseph
Rondo

Maybe we hit the lottery for a year and get one blue chipper and then add another young stud on a max contract.

But that group of young players above is a great nucleus to build around quickly.

And I now think Melo in particular may have a much higher ceiling than we anticipate. Guys with no talent do not put up those kinds of numbers in the NBA or the D-League.

Patience, gather young assets, hold onto them, let them develop and add around it.

I guess I see us rebuilding already and doing a pretty good job of it.

Just get KG a half decent big man for this season, get Bradley back and we will without questions make another serious run - count on it.

 
   
   
     

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2013, 11:19:04 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Dalembert is an extra body you sign of the scrap heap, not the guy you trade for to start at C. 



If the Celtics make a trade, they should be taking some of their depth and using it to bring back a single better player.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 11:22:48 PM »

Offline Who

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It's a pity we don't have an expiring contract. Dalembert could be easily had for an expiring and a first. Maybe Danny could flip Courtney Lee for an expiring and then use that to land Dally.

I think they'd prefer that to having Courtney Lee's salary on the books.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2013, 11:23:26 PM »

Offline danglertx

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I agree.  We have already restarted the rebuilding process with Bradley, Sullinger, and Melo.  Don't blow that up for a quick fix that probably won't work out or the headcase that is Cousins.

Say we deal Bradley, Melo and Sullinger for Cousins and in two weeks KG's knee goes out.  We've doomed ourselves to years of below .500 ball.  Our only real asset Cousins probably becomes the head case for us he was in SacTown and KG, Terry and Pierce decide to retire rather than deal with the prospect of playing out two more .500 seasons.

Tweak things with our expendable assets of Bass and Lee.  If things keep going down hill then look at trades for the future.   

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2013, 11:24:37 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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I agree we should get the best possible player by using our depth. But I would be very hesitant to trade any of Melo, Sully or Bradley to do it.

Also, if I'm making that kind of trade are we looking for a guy who fits with Rondo or with KG and Pierce and for only one more year?

If the latter I have no interest in giving away good young talents to do so.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2013, 11:28:39 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Yeah Dangletx, I agree with this exactly. The thing I like about Melo, Sully and Bradley, outside of them all having decent to possibly very good NBA talent given time, is that all three kids seem to have outstanding character and work ethic - that's what I believe you can build around - not someone like Cousins.

Cousins to me is like saying let's get Bynum. Both are two years old, I guess with Cousins at least he can walk and play...

I'm not saying Cousins isn't worth considering, but boy could that blow up...Imagine if he and Rondo start butting heads?.... Game-Over

Gortat is another question, but what do we have to give up to get him?...   

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2013, 11:35:59 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Yeah Dangletx, I agree with this exactly. The thing I like about Melo, Sully and Bradley, outside of them all having decent to possibly very good NBA talent given time, is that all three kids seem to have outstanding character and work ethic - that's what I believe you can build around - not someone like Cousins.

Cousins to me is like saying let's get Bynum. Both are two years old, I guess with Cousins at least he can walk and play...

I'm not saying Cousins isn't worth considering, but boy could that blow up...Imagine if he and Rondo start butting heads?.... Game-Over

Gortat is another question, but what do we have to give up to get him?...   



Holding onto those players goes against how Ainge made the big moves the last time.

He moved the majority of the "young talent" to get KG and Ray.


I have no doubt that he sees these players as chips, not the building blocks of the next great team. 

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2013, 11:42:15 PM »

Offline danglertx

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The way I see it, we have two expendable assets.  Lee and Bass.  If that and a pick can't get us whoever, then move on.  I'd rather set up for coming years when salary cap issues are going to start crushing some of these super teams than sell off our future assets for a hope that one player can all of a sudden make us contenders.

In my opinion, Bradley has as much of a chance of turning this team around and making us contenders as Cousins would.  Sullinger might put up Cousins or even Love numbers if they'd actually use him on offense.  If they used Sully more, he'd start getting more calls and I think he could live on the free throw line.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2013, 11:53:27 PM »

Offline danglertx

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Yeah Dangletx, I agree with this exactly. The thing I like about Melo, Sully and Bradley, outside of them all having decent to possibly very good NBA talent given time, is that all three kids seem to have outstanding character and work ethic - that's what I believe you can build around - not someone like Cousins.

Cousins to me is like saying let's get Bynum. Both are two years old, I guess with Cousins at least he can walk and play...

I'm not saying Cousins isn't worth considering, but boy could that blow up...Imagine if he and Rondo start butting heads?.... Game-Over

Gortat is another question, but what do we have to give up to get him?...   



Holding onto those players goes against how Ainge made the big moves the last time.

He moved the majority of the "young talent" to get KG and Ray.


I have no doubt that he sees these players as chips, not the building blocks of the next great team.

If he gets us two AllStars I'm all for it.  However, I don't see that happening.  The only reason he got KG was because he had the one thing no other team could give Minny, a sure fire lottery pick.  Whatever team Garnett would sign an extension to play for was certainly NOT going to be picking in the lottery.  But the Celtics had Minny's #1, which was sure to be a lottery pick if KG left Minny. Other than Jefferson, those players going back were nothing more than flotsam going back for salary cap reasons.

 

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2013, 12:11:46 AM »

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The worst outcome to our struggles would be that Ainge, Doc and company panic and blow this thing up now.

1. We don't need to blow it up
2. We don't need to trade all our young, promising talent for a head case in DeMarcus Cousins (Though I do agree he's worth the risk for the right price)

What we need to do is make a small trade, for example:

1. Courtney Lee and a pick for Samuel Dalembert, who is playing exactly Zero minutes in Milwaukee.

2. Jeff Green, Courtney Lee and two 1st round picks for Gortat and a back up small forward.


We should not trade Sullinger: he will easily be a 15/10 or possibly a 20/10 guy in short order. Once the kid hits the weights hard and learns how to use his body even more than does already in the paint? Game over down there.

We should not trade Bradley: He is an elite defender at the 1, 2 and sometimes the 3 position depending on the size of the 3. His offense is coming and his personality "screams" old school Boston Celtic player

We should not trade Fab Melo "yet" NBA or D-League, putting up games like he did of 14/15/16 followed by another game of 32, 9 & 9 is showing us a "flash" of what he can do. Give him more time.
* Great lateral quickness
* Good timing on blocks
* True seven footer
* Stamina up and down the court
* Watch his foul shot - the way he shoots, his follow through - anyone who knows basketball can tell you that is going to translate into a 'very" nice 12-15 foot jump shot in time. He's already starting to show it.

Lastly Sullinger, melo and Bradley are all like "model" citizens and hard working, good young kids. That is not that easy to find.

Also, consider how will the length and quickness of Melo, combined with the strength and toughness of Sullinger look together in 1-2 years? I think it could be very, very good.

Trade Green, Bass, Lee, etc + a pick or two - that should get you some kind of serviceable center - do NOT give away the farm for Demarcus Cousins - what kidn of headcase will he be with a $12 million contract if he's already one with a $3 million contract?       

Keep the young talent, figure out a way to get a decent center with a small trade.

I really like the Dalembert trade. Milwaukee could also use an off guard with some half decent size in Courtney Lee to go with Ellis and Jennings. They are not using Dalembert at all.

Dalembert / Wilcox / Collins
KG / Sully / Bass 
Pierce / Green / Joseph
Bradley / Terry / Joseph
Rondo / Barbosa

That's not a small trade.

Re: Worst possible scenario...
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2013, 12:49:13 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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I agree a small trade is the way to go. The only players I want to move are Lee and Bass. I think we should take a first round pick and pair them with both or one of those guys to see what bigs we can get. I think Dalembert would help a lot.
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