Author Topic: Divide In The Locker Room  (Read 11491 times)

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Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2013, 09:33:08 PM »

Offline cman88

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this is why Bradley should help as well. you KNOW he will play hard..

and it seemed like when other players saw how hard this kid was working out there they said "hey we gotta step up our game as well"

by the end of the year, I would actually like to see our starting lineup be Rondo/Bradley/Pierce/Sullinger/KG

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2013, 10:20:31 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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To be honest I seriously doubt Terry is one of the guys with a lack of caring. 

Terry has always come across as very passionate about winning - his championship tatoo's and his historical tendancy to come up big in important games but hint at this.  So far statistically he's been one of the top 4 players on the team.  Doc has commented on how much he has loved Terry's defense, and the fact that he's kept him in the starting lineup (despite him usually being at his best as a 6th man) speaks volumes of Doc's faith in Terry. 

He may be struggling with his shot, but I rarely see Terry with an emotionally look on his face when his team is down. After a loss also he always accepts responsiblility and always says the right things.

Likewise Wilcox - he looks serious every time I see him, and whie he may not be the perfect player he plays HARD every time he is on the court.

Same with Sullinger as well.  The other night against Golden stat that guys face was red from fury when the team was down and he wasn't getting calls. 

Personally I think it's Bass, Barbosa, Lee and possibly Green.

Bass was a pure energy guy last season, but ever since he got a new contact and his starting spot dissapeared it seems his interest has taken a nose dive.  He doesn't play as hard, and his body language just suggests he's "just doing his job". 

Barbosa has no shortage of comedic youtube videos out there, so wouldn't surprise me if he's joking around after losses.

Lee never looks to me like he's that into a game emotionally.  Very much a 'poker face' type of player, a lot like Bass.  His whole body language suggests he's just there to do a job and go home. 

Take a look at the roster rotations and I think it tells you all you need to know.  Doc initially signed Lee with the intention of starting him until Bradley returns, yet Lee has been coming off the bench the majority of the season.  Why do you think that is?  Doc appreciates guys who play hard and leave it all on the line, and Lee's inconsistent play may not be the only reason for him losing his starting spot.

Bass was a starter all of last season for Boston, and with him as a starter we went all the way to the ECF where we almost knocked off the eventual champions.  He was in the starting lineup nmost of this season where he had been relatively ineffective and inconsistent - suddenly he's been riding the pine lately, and Sullinger is playing almost twice as many minutes as Bass is.  Add to this Bass' comments earlier in the season suggesting his discomfort with the bench role, and that's about all you need to know.

Green, I'm not so sure.  He's a quiet guy with a 'nice guy' persona, and he does sometimes play passive out there...but at the same time if you look at the times times where he flicks the switch he does really get in to the game emotionally.  Lately his defense and his rebounding have improved, and those are hustle stats that usually come as a direct result of effort level.  I don't think he's got the same level of emotional drive as Rondo, Pierce, Terry and Garnett but I do think he cares about the team and how they go. Especailly after they supported him through his medical issues, he really does seem appreciative of the team.

Personally I feel like Lee and Bass are the most emotionally disconnected right now. At least that's the vibe I get from them. 

Possibly Barbosa as well, but Barbosa comes across to me as a guy who DOES care, but who just has a lighthearted way of dealing with things.

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2013, 04:35:02 AM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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So guys react differently to losses?  Shocker.  Guys react differently to different things.  That doesn't mean there's a "locker room divide".


no sale Roy.

ever played a team sport at even a moderately high level ?
show me a team that jokes around after losses and i'll show you a loser. i saw it myself, first hand in college. my first year, we had guys (seniors) who yucked it up after losses - they graduated and the rest of us got serious the next season and started winning.

you have to have talent, yes - but after that, attitude, effort, togetherness, heart are what seperates good from titles.

if there are guys on this team right now who are not very upset about the current record, they need to go.

we are the Celtics, not the Kings.
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2013, 05:43:28 AM »

Offline mctyson

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I bet many people in this thread concerned about "division" in the locker room also want to trade for DeMarcus Cousins.


Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2013, 08:20:54 AM »

Offline clover

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I think this sentence in the article does point fingers:

"Players such as Lee, Brandon Bass, and Jeff Green have to respond to this adversity because they were depended on to do more than ride the wave of being a Celtic."

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2013, 09:30:06 AM »

Offline Jeff

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tend to agree with Roy, this seemed like a non-story to me and I passed over it as such
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark

"Know what I pray for? The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can't, and the incapacity to tell the difference." - Calvin (Bill Watterson)

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2013, 09:32:13 AM »

Offline Jeff

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in related news, there's a divide in the forums!  some people joke after losses and some are very serious - there are even conflicting viewpoints!

unidentified sources are worried about the future of our forums and hint at future trade proposal threads if things don't turn around quickly
Faith and Sports - an essay by Jeff Clark

"Know what I pray for? The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can't, and the incapacity to tell the difference." - Calvin (Bill Watterson)

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2013, 10:26:47 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Yup...I'm a happy go lucky person , except when it comes to earning a living or being professional .

Laughing and joking about losing in a locker room is "SERIOUS" business , if I'm a coach, owner , GM or another teammate .  NBA is professional career, I would think most guys take it seriously especially when they are making the kind of money these guys get paid.

Guys that make fun of a losing in the locker room or on the bench have NO PLACE on a team. 

If you are not serious then , leave the team .

If this is true , I hope DA dumps them. 

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2013, 10:28:56 AM »

Offline MBunge

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I think it's a bit unfair to buy into the suggestion that the trouble is all the new guys' fault because they don't care/don't work hard enough.  What exactly was the reason a couple of years ago when this team played .500 ball for the last 2/3rds of the season and got beat by some of the worst teams in the league?  From what I've seen, the only player on the Celtics exempt from criticism would be KG.  Everyone else, including Pierce and Doc, looks like they're part of the problem and not the solution.

Mike

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2013, 10:34:32 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Yup...I'm a happy go lucky person , except when it comes to earning a living or being professional .

Laughing and joking about losing in a locker room is "SERIOUS" business , if I'm a coach, owner , GM or another teammate .  NBA is professional career, I would think most guys take it seriously especially when they are making the kind of money these guys get paid.

Guys that make fun of a losing in the locker room or on the bench have NO PLACE on a team. 

If you are not serious then , leave the team .

If this is true , I hope DA dumps them.

Mickael Pietrus had a reputation for joking around (even after losses) and keeping things light.  Is he a loser?  Paul Pierce has been known to crack jokes in the middle of losing streaks, too.  Is the the type of guy we should jettison?

Just because somebody can act light-hearted after a bad day on the job doesn't make them less of a competitor.  That's true of athletes, lawyers, construction workers, teachers, etc.  Laughing doesn't mean you don't care.


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Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2013, 10:37:40 AM »

Offline Chris

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I really think this team has a real problem, not so much between the new guys and veterans, but between the old guard and the new guard...or Rondo vs. KG and Pierce.

And (unlike with Ray), I don't think this is so much an outwardly hostile thing.  I just think there is an issue with philosophy, trust and leadership, that is hard to resolve.

Here is where the issue lies:

1. I think the organization wants to transition this team to being Rondo's team.  They want him to take over as the leader, and they want to build the team around him.  They went out this summer with that in mind, and tried to surround him with guys who complement him.

2. KG and Pierce are both incredibly respected guys, with very strong personalities, and a natural leadership quality.  Even though I think they may have bought into passing the torch to Rondo, I think their shadow is making it difficult for the other guys to look past them, and look to Rondo as their leader (I also think Doc has this problem as well).  And I think Rondo has also tended to defer to them when things get tough, which hurts his credibility as a leader.

So, what you have is split leadership.  When things are going well, they are fine with Rondo as the leader.  However, as soon as things start going wrong, they revert to looking to the old guys (even Rondo does this I think). 

I think this lack of consistent leadership leads to a lack of cohesion and chemistry.

And I am not sure I know what the answer is, short of trading a core guy...or Rondo just stepping up even more to really take hold of the leadership.

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2013, 10:42:35 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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Yup...I'm a happy go lucky person , except when it comes to earning a living or being professional .

Laughing and joking about losing in a locker room is "SERIOUS" business , if I'm a coach, owner , GM or another teammate .  NBA is professional career, I would think most guys take it seriously especially when they are making the kind of money these guys get paid.

Guys that make fun of a losing in the locker room or on the bench have NO PLACE on a team. 

If you are not serious then , leave the team .

If this is true , I hope DA dumps them.

Mickael Pietrus had a reputation for joking around (even after losses) and keeping things light.  Is he a loser?  Paul Pierce has been known to crack jokes in the middle of losing streaks, too.  Is the the type of guy we should jettison?

Just because somebody can act light-hearted after a bad day on the job doesn't make them less of a competitor.  That's true of athletes, lawyers, construction workers, teachers, etc.  Laughing doesn't mean you don't care.

While I don't think its a huge story it has some merit.

I think there's also a difference between one guy playing the light hearted keeping guys loose role than several guys doing it.

It just doesn't look good no matter how you look at it. I mean what if every player was joking around after losses not seeming worried about losing etc? I mean, I wouldn't be too confident in a team like that

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2013, 10:44:05 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I don't know who is taking the losses lightly
Jeff Green is the first name that comes to mind. Maybe Bass. Barbosa.

Those are my guesses.
Why exactly is Barbosa a problem? He hasn't been part of the rotation for weeks. Green? Bass? Have you ever seen Jeff Green and Brandon Bass laugh and joke about anything ever? I haven't.

My first guesses would be Paul Pierce and Jason Terry.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2013, 10:46:20 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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It just doesn't look good no matter how you look at it. I mean what if every player was joking around after losses not seeming worried about losing etc? I mean, I wouldn't be too confident in a team like that

At the same time, a team that gets too upset after losses has a high risk of reaching burnout, especially during the regular season.

There needs to be balance.  You can't have knuckleheads on the team like Mark Blount and Ricky Davis.  However, it's perfectly consistent to be a hard-working, hard-playing professional without blowing your stack after losses.


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Re: Divide In The Locker Room
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2013, 11:05:35 AM »

Offline CDawg834

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This article aside, I've had major concerns about Jeff Green's attitude throughout the season...to me, he continues to come off as someone who just doesn't care, one of those guys who's capable of All-Star numbers but doesn't show up some nights.  That kind of glaring inconsistency from game-to-game is troubling, because he clearly has the talent, but apparently doesn't feel like playing some nights.

One game a few weeks back, they did a pregame interview with him at his locker, and he spent the whole interview with his headphones on, staring straight ahead, no eye contact, generic answers, etc. and seemed bored.  You could argue it was pregame and he was trying to focus, but it came off as indifference rather than intensity.

To be clear, I don't think he's a negative or polarizing figure in the locker room, like say a DeMarcus Cousins or a Mark Blount or a Joseph Forte, but they seem to think he could be a leader of this team in the future, and I don't see that at all.