Author Topic: Window is Closed!!  (Read 6263 times)

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Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2013, 09:35:44 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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for me personally, i want pierce to retire a celtic. i would take as much satisfaction in his retiring a celtic as a championship. he has been my fav player since he entered the nba (and i liked him a lot at kansas as well).  in this day and age, being drafted and playing your entire career with one team is very rare. that, along with the success he has had and being a celtic great, i want him to retire here, regardless if its a "smart" bball decision or not. seeing 34 in the rafters, after playing his entire career here would look just as good as another banner, for me

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2013, 09:40:35 AM »

Offline wiley

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NO!  IT HASN'T!

Almost, but not yet.... 

This team will either be in the finals or lose again to the Heat in the ECF.

The reason we suck right now is we are in regular season coast mode.  But coast mode is harder this year than last, because a bunch of formerly awful teams with their young future stars are maturing and slowly entering the land of the respectable.  Therefore, just barely making the playoffs is going to require  a bit more work than last year, but that is definitely the plan, unless Avery can have a bigger impact than we are imaging and we make the playoffs by a comfortable 3 to 5 games or so....

Anyhow, once in the playoffs, the competition will be no better than they were a year ago. 

And our bench will be better then than now due to a full season of big minutes, adding Avery back in the starting lineup, and adding a decent big....(hoping it's Fab but more likely it's come from a trade or signing of a waived player).....

What a relief it'll be to enter the playoffs and not have to deal with the DeMarcus Cousinses, Larry Sanderses and Nikola Vucevices of the world....


Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2013, 09:42:16 AM »

Offline wiley

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for me personally, i want pierce to retire a celtic. i would take as much satisfaction in his retiring a celtic as a championship. he has been my fav player since he entered the nba (and i liked him a lot at kansas as well).  in this day and age, being drafted and playing your entire career with one team is very rare. that, along with the success he has had and being a celtic great, i want him to retire here, regardless if its a "smart" bball decision or not. seeing 34 in the rafters, after playing his entire career here would look just as good as another banner, for me

TP.  I'm always tempted to trade Paul and always feeling guilty about it!  Better to just keep him 'til the end........

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2013, 10:39:29 AM »

Offline vinnie

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NO!  IT HASN'T!

Almost, but not yet.... 

This team will either be in the finals or lose again to the Heat in the ECF.

The reason we suck right now is we are in regular season coast mode.  But coast mode is harder this year than last, because a bunch of formerly awful teams with their young future stars are maturing and slowly entering the land of the respectable.  Therefore, just barely making the playoffs is going to require  a bit more work than last year, but that is definitely the plan, unless Avery can have a bigger impact than we are imaging and we make the playoffs by a comfortable 3 to 5 games or so....

Anyhow, once in the playoffs, the competition will be no better than they were a year ago. 

And our bench will be better then than now due to a full season of big minutes, adding Avery back in the starting lineup, and adding a decent big....(hoping it's Fab but more likely it's come from a trade or signing of a waived player).....

What a relief it'll be to enter the playoffs and not have to deal with the DeMarcus Cousinses, Larry Sanderses and Nikola Vucevices of the world....

If they barely make the playoffs, they will lose to the Heat in round 1.

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2013, 11:20:04 AM »

Offline gpap

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I would like to see KG and Paul retire in Celtics green. I also think they wouldn't bring back much, due to their big contracts.

As crazy as this may sound, I think there is still a chance for another title, but as Roy said, the chances are small. I think the means of making this happen are quite narrow, and look something like this (everything I'm saying here has been mentioned elsewhere, but I think it's all accurate, and constitutes my best guess for a "formula for success"):

1) Acquire a legit center. This doesn't have to be an All-Star, but someone who is at least defensively competent and can block a few shots. My preference is Gortat, but even someone such as Mozgov could be enough.

2) Keep Avery Bradley at all costs. Defense wins titles, especially for this franchise, and AB is the best there is on the perimeter. Him, combined with a legit defensive C, will go a long way, I think.

3) Define roles once and for all. Make Jet part of the bench, and its primary offensive weapon, giving him freedom to freelance. Make Bass and Sully a permanent part of the bench. Give Green consistent minutes, and don't play him at the 4.

I agree that if this team makes some adjustments, they still have a run left in them. But can I ask a question? What is the fascination with wanting to see Pierce or KG "retire as a Celtic."

I like both guys but they can retire with the North Dakota Bingo Players for all I care. I want to see championships hoisted in Beantown. Let's worry about the retirement ceremonies, later.

I want to retire in Honolulu, Hawaii with a bikini clad chick on each arm, doesn't mean it's going to happen nor is it something I should emotionally invest myself in.

I want to retire with my family who has raised me for decades. The family that has been with me through my ups and downs, but was loyal to me to the very end.

What? What does that have to do with Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett or for that matter, what I was talking about?

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2013, 11:31:06 AM »

Offline gpap

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As fans, we should demand the best, not let our cheap front office swindle us and let them sell us "a bag of goods."

The Celtics have had one of the highest payrolls in the NBA in recent years.  If you think they're cheap, I'm not sure that you understand the limitations of the salary cap / luxury tax / CBA.  The team has realistically spent everything it could spend.

Well, this may or may not be accurate. Let's not forget, wasn't the whole reason behind trading Perkins because the Celtics "didn't think they'd be able to extend his contract and meet his demands."

If that's the case, then that was definitely an example of where the FO was being frugal.

Beyond that, maybe it isn't the volume of spending I should be questioning as much as the quality of players  the Celtics have signed. In hindsight, the Celtics had a terrible offseason last summer.

Beyond that, in the summer of 2010, I think bringing Pierce back on a 3 year, 45 million contract was a big mistake.

They should've taken that money and signed someone else. Besides, I thought the Celtics had "bird rights" on KG and Paul Pierce, so it doesn't even count against their cap, does it?

I don't know...I am admittedly not an expert on the NBA salary cap, but this is what I know, good rosters win championships and bad rosters don't                                                                                                   

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2013, 11:44:18 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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As fans, we should demand the best, not let our cheap front office swindle us and let them sell us "a bag of goods."

The Celtics have had one of the highest payrolls in the NBA in recent years.  If you think they're cheap, I'm not sure that you understand the limitations of the salary cap / luxury tax / CBA.  The team has realistically spent everything it could spend.

Well, this may or may not be accurate. Let's not forget, wasn't the whole reason behind trading Perkins because the Celtics "didn't think they'd be able to extend his contract and meet his demands."

If that's the case, then that was definitely an example of where the FO was being frugal.

The reasoning was that they didn't want to tie up a big chunk of their cap space in Perk, a guy the team thought was overpaid.  People can disagree about that perspective, but it was about flexibility under the CBA, rather than purely a financial situation.

Quote
Beyond that, maybe it isn't the volume of spending I should be questioning as much as the quality of players  the Celtics have signed. In hindsight, the Celtics had a terrible offseason last summer.

Again, though, under the rules there is only so much salary we can take on.  To have had any cap room at all to spend on outside free agents, we would have had to say goodbye to KG, Ray (which we did) and Green, among others. 

Quote
Beyond that, in the summer of 2010, I think bringing Pierce back on a 3 year, 45 million contract was a big mistake.

They should've taken that money and signed someone else. Besides, I thought the Celtics had "bird rights" on KG and Paul Pierce, so it doesn't even count against their cap, does it?

Bird rights count against the cap and the luxury tax.

As far as letting Pierce go, you were going to kick him out the door after we came one game away from a title?

Quote
I don't know...I am admittedly not an expert on the NBA salary cap, but this is what I know, good rosters win championships and bad rosters don't                                                           

That's true.  Since trading for KG and Ray, though, we've made the Finals twice, and the ECF another time.  Our core has proven itself, and it's hard to fault Danny for bringing that core back for another run.


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Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2013, 11:57:58 AM »

Offline gpap

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We'll see..hindsight is always 20/20.

After the 2010 finals run, yes I would've let Pierce walk because they were a TON of good free agents that summer.

BUT....I am not the GM. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

It would be unfortunate if the conlusion we come to is that Danny hung onto "the big 3" too long, even after Danny himself said "he would've broken up the big 3 back in the 80s" if he were Red Auerbach.

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2013, 12:05:43 PM »

Offline ScottHow

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I agree, window's closed. I thought it was shut after game 7 last year. I was ready to trade Pierce, let KG walk and start the process. Instead, we have this mess.

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2013, 12:13:44 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Seen a few people suggesting we trade for some help but thus far, no one is willing to part wih Avery.  I don't see how this would work.  Our two biggest trade chips are Avery, rondo, and sully.  Sully can't get back all that much.

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2013, 01:23:43 PM »

Offline Jon

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On one hand, this thread has popped up in one shape or another the past 3 years or so.  So in all 3 years this thread was dead wrong.  So it quite possibly could be now too. 

On the other hand, another year has gone by and KG and PP are even older.  At some point the window will close. 

It's tough.  I think there's still hope because the Big Three has more help than they've ever had before.  But in the negative side, we're certainly without a dominant offensive superstar, as Rondo and KG aren't dominant scorers and PP is slipping. 

I'd at least like to see what Avery Bradley can do and what Green, Terry, and Lee can do with more time. 

And it's not like we were getting big offers for PP last year, so I'm not sure what we can really expect this year. 

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2013, 01:47:59 PM »

Offline wiley

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NO!  IT HASN'T!

Almost, but not yet.... 

This team will either be in the finals or lose again to the Heat in the ECF.

The reason we suck right now is we are in regular season coast mode.  But coast mode is harder this year than last, because a bunch of formerly awful teams with their young future stars are maturing and slowly entering the land of the respectable.  Therefore, just barely making the playoffs is going to require  a bit more work than last year, but that is definitely the plan, unless Avery can have a bigger impact than we are imaging and we make the playoffs by a comfortable 3 to 5 games or so....

Anyhow, once in the playoffs, the competition will be no better than they were a year ago. 

And our bench will be better then than now due to a full season of big minutes, adding Avery back in the starting lineup, and adding a decent big....(hoping it's Fab but more likely it's come from a trade or signing of a waived player).....

What a relief it'll be to enter the playoffs and not have to deal with the DeMarcus Cousinses, Larry Sanderses and Nikola Vucevices of the world....

If they barely make the playoffs, they will lose to the Heat in round 1.

Good point, though they could upset them if the refs allow it. You're right though, better to get the 7th seed!

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2013, 03:04:50 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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a window is closed, but there'll be another one.

I get the fascination for this window metaphore, but this is just a storyline that comes and goes every year since the KG injury in 2009. And it's true, that year the window closed against our noses, it hurted a lot. But the year after they were a couple injuries and an MVP performance by Joey Crawford from winning it all. Then, the injured O'Neals window, and last year the old team injury plague (and very bad luck with young players like Wilcox, Green and Bradley having season-ending injuries) window.

Every year we have a new window, even when we can't see it. Our players grow older, some of them mature, and some of them surprise us. Last year it was Bradley, to a point where even Rondo is putting his hopes on Avery's return this season. This year it will be Jeff Green, by february he'll be playing a total different game. And in the playoffs, you know Jet will perform. If Rondo was at 100% on every game, the Celtics wouldn't be a .500 team, but this latest injury and his lack of interest before are hurting the team.

What we are missing right now is someone in the Perk role, a good/great defender who can push the team and unload some pressure from KG. I had high hopes on Darko, but it didn't work. We need Dalembert, or Mozgov, or Robin Lopez. Gortat/Varejao are out of reach, and you don't commit that kind of money to a transition big, you want to keep it for KG and his future heir. If you think Gortat/Varejao or even DMC can fill the KG role, you go all out, but that's not the case. Save the money for that dominant defensive big that compliments Rondo's game, and use Green as the team's primary scorer. Dude can score at will, but he seems to refuse the spotlight, yikes.

I know Green is 26, he's the same player he's been all his career, and that all the bashing he gets is somehow justified, but I believe he'll be this year's surprise, and our key to open a new window.

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2013, 04:23:53 PM »

Offline celtics2

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I came to this thread because I agree with the title but the solutions are not obvious.

I ma not sure Pierce has much trade value, to be honest.  That's a lot of salary to match and tie up for a couple more years.  I don't think he puts anyone over the top because he needs the ball in his hands a lot of the time. Any team that close is not going to play PP a lot.

Beyond that, the organization won't trade him, IMO.  He means too much to the franchise and its marketing strategy.

The only realistic answer is to continue to watch this team embarrass itself and hope for a KG retirement after the season.

Yeah, but it won't be too bad because we have some Celtic's ready to get hung still limping around to entertain us. Oh joy!!

Re: Window is Closed!!
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2013, 04:49:00 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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for me personally, i want pierce to retire a celtic. i would take as much satisfaction in his retiring a celtic as a championship. he has been my fav player since he entered the nba (and i liked him a lot at kansas as well).  in this day and age, being drafted and playing your entire career with one team is very rare. that, along with the success he has had and being a celtic great, i want him to retire here, regardless if its a "smart" bball decision or not. seeing 34 in the rafters, after playing his entire career here would look just as good as another banner, for me

I agree DL that it would be nice to see PP finish his career here. He has done a lot for this franchise. However, this only is worth it if two things can happen:

1- We don't end up with a 20 year stretch of cellar dwelling
2- He is willing to reduce his role and realize he isn't the player he was

Sadly, If we just allow the team to struggle in mediocrity due to be just good enough to be in the middle of the pack number one is coming. It is clear since PP continues to lead the team in shots taken, coupled with a pretty poor shooting %, he hasn't come to the conclusion that he no longer has the ability he once did. I wish there was a way to do both, but I just don't think that there is.