Author Topic: different way to look at potential trade ideas  (Read 1588 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

different way to look at potential trade ideas
« on: December 26, 2012, 10:11:31 AM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Tommy Points: 109
Instead of who do we want the Cs to get. Who wants what the Cs have?

Figuring Bass and Lee are the most likely to be moved.
 

Who has a need for a solid back up 4 (bass)?
   1. Blazers
   2. Bobcats
   3. Cavs

Who has a need for a defensive 2 (Lee)?
   1. Bucks
   2. Raptors
   3. T-Wolves
   4. Blazers
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 10:18:28 AM by CFAN38 »

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 10:30:35 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10501
  • Tommy Points: 2225
not a bad idea to consider who would want to contact the C's for a player instead of the other way around.  I doubt though that teams that fit that description would be calling for Bass or Lee.  I think they'd be calling for Sully and AB instead. 

Of the teams that could use Lee, Milwaukee has the extra frontcourt depth that might make a reasonable deal possible.  by reasonable, I mean we're not giving up the core or are best prospect players (like Sully and AB)

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 10:37:46 AM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Tommy Points: 109
Quote
I doubt though that teams that fit that description would be calling for Bass or Lee.  I think they'd be calling for Sully and AB instead. 

True but like everything else some times you have to shoot high then settle for the realistic. Much like its great to think about the Cs trading for cousins but realistically come the deadline i expect Dalembert.

Also around the NBA I expect some solid interest in Bass because he has a nice off the bench skill set.

Lee might become the classic buy when he is low deal for a team that just needs a talent upgrade.

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 10:52:01 AM »

Offline perks-a-beast

  • Rajon Rondo
  • Posts: 870
  • Tommy Points: 81
Instead of who do we want the Cs to get. Who wants what the Cs have?

Figuring Bass and Lee are the most likely to be moved.
 

Who has a need for a solid back up 4 (bass)?
   1. Blazers
   2. Bobcats
   3. Cavs

Who has a need for a defensive 2 (Lee)?
   1. Bucks
   2. Raptors
   3. T-Wolves
   4. Blazers


That's a good way to look at it. TP.

Bass and Lees trade values are probably pretty low at this point and plummeting every day so i don't think there is much the Celts could squeeze out of these teams.

As for Mr. Bass...

1. Blazers. Portland would probably love to have Bass but i don't know what they'd be willing to give up that would interest the Celtics since Boston would probably be looking to bolster their front court in any potential Bass trade. Leonard, Alridge and Hickson probably aren't leaving Portland in any minor deals.

2. Bobcats. Again, would probably love to have Bass. I'd be happy if the Celtics could get Haywood out of any deal like that. He's a huge improvement over Jason Collins and can clobber guys too.

3. Cavaliers. Obviously the guy the Celtics would be trying to get out of any deal with the Cavs is Varejao. It's going to be a tough sell. The Cavs might want Green in any deal like that. Green, Bass, and Melo for Varejao, Casspi & Walton? That i would do all day everyday.

As for Courtney Lee, there isn't going to be a whole lot of interest for him out there for him since he's shown this season that he's and underwhelming player on a long deal. It's even starting to look like a bad deal for the Celtics to have given up 3"Twaun Moore for him. Celtics would be lucky to get Dalembert out of a deal for Lee.

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 02:39:14 PM »

Offline snively

  • Antoine Walker
  • *****
  • Posts: 5380
  • Tommy Points: 383
Bass:
1. Blazers: I don't see a deal that would appeal to both teams.  The best I'd see the Blazers offering is something like Freeland, Jeffries and Pavlovic, which would be pointless for Boston and just about any other team (ruling out 3rd party deals). 

2. Bobcats: Tyrus Thomas for Bass (+ a minimum contract) makes a lot of sense for both teams if Thomas is on track for a healthy return by the all-star break. That injury does muddy the waters though.

3. Cavs: A good destination for Bass and a good 3rd team partner with the half-guaranteed Gibson contract and their other expiring deals.  Nothing desirable in a realistic straight swap though.  A 3-teamer with Orlando and Al Harrington coming back would be nice (if Harrington is healthy enough to play).

Lee:

1. Bucks: I think Lee for Dalembert makes sense for both teams.  Lee's due to fall almost entirely out of the rotation with Bradley's return (sure Rondo will play less with AB back, but most of Bradley's time will come out of Lee's 24mpg), whereas Milwaukee has a much easier guard rotation to crack (with Jennings and Ellis hardly locks to stay, and Udrih/Daniels as bench competition).  And Jason Collins is starting for us.  I know Dalembert isn't as quick as he used to be (neither is Collins for that matter), but he's big, he rebounds, he blocks shots and he finishes well at the rim.

2. Raptors: Why would Toronto want him? Lowry, DeRozan, Fields and Ross already locked up long-term (for better or worse) and Calderon still there eating up guard minutes.  I don't see the Raps having any interest in Lee unless we were willing to take Fields in return (why would we?).

3. T-Wolves: I can definitely see their need for Lee, but what would they be willing to give up?  I know Derrick Williams has been a disappointment (and Adelman's not a big fan apparently), but I don't think they are trading last year's #2 pick for a back-up grade 2-guard.   I like Stiemsma, but I'd want a little more in return for Lee and Minny doesn't have much else that's appealing (nor are they so loaded with bigs that they'd deal Steamer without getting a big in return).
Pick 2 Team: Rockets (McHale)
PG M. Chalmers ($4 mil) SG J. Harden ($5.8 mil) SF W. Chandler ($5.9) PF Nene ($13) C S. Hawes ($6.5) 6th man: Ginobli ($14.1) 7th man: Marv Williams ($8.3) Enforcers: F. Ezeli ($1), C. Hayes ($5.5) Bench Marksman: A. Morrow ($4) Young Gun: R. Jackson ($1.2) Greybeard: P. Prigioni ($.5) Towel-Waver: Mike Scott ($.5)

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 04:36:02 PM »

Offline nostar

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 533
  • Tommy Points: 51
Bass:
1. Blazers: I don't see a deal that would appeal to both teams.  The best I'd see the Blazers offering is something like Freeland, Jeffries and Pavlovic, which would be pointless for Boston and just about any other team (ruling out 3rd party deals).


I'd take Jeffries in a deal for Bass. His play last season for the NYK was very under appreciated. The money doesn't add up but I'd be a part in bringing in Jeffries for sure.

2. Bobcats: Tyrus Thomas for Bass (+ a minimum contract) makes a lot of sense for both teams if Thomas is on track for a healthy return by the all-star break. That injury does muddy the waters though.

This is just me but Thomas is a non-starter in my book. I think he's lazy and uninterested a lot. I'd rather have Bass than Thomas I think. Also Thomas's deal is worse than Bass's and he's had injury problems his whole career.

1. Bucks: I think Lee for Dalembert makes sense for both teams.  Lee's due to fall almost entirely out of the rotation with Bradley's return...

There is no way Lee falls out of the rotation. I'd argue that Lee has played very hard for us this season, he's just shooting poorly. Similar to Pietrus last season. I'd make the Lee for Dalembert swap but that would be very good value for MIL on a player they don't even want. I'd do Lee/Bass/2nd for LRMM/Dalembert.

3. T-Wolves: I can definitely see their need for Lee, but what would they be willing to give up?  I know Derrick Williams has been a disappointment (and Adelman's not a big fan apparently), but I don't think they are trading last year's #2 pick for a back-up grade 2-guard.   I like Stiemsma, but I'd want a little more in return for Lee and Minny doesn't have much else that's appealing (nor are they so loaded with bigs that they'd deal Steamer without getting a big in return).

I'd do Lee for Williams straight up and I'd throw in a 2nd if that is what it took. What about Lee/Sully for Williams/Steamer? I'd hate to give up Sully in a rotation player deal but I'd have to think about it.

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 05:10:16 PM »

Offline snively

  • Antoine Walker
  • *****
  • Posts: 5380
  • Tommy Points: 383
Bass:
1. Blazers: I don't see a deal that would appeal to both teams.  The best I'd see the Blazers offering is something like Freeland, Jeffries and Pavlovic, which would be pointless for Boston and just about any other team (ruling out 3rd party deals).


I'd take Jeffries in a deal for Bass. His play last season for the NYK was very under appreciated. The money doesn't add up but I'd be a part in bringing in Jeffries for sure.

2. Bobcats: Tyrus Thomas for Bass (+ a minimum contract) makes a lot of sense for both teams if Thomas is on track for a healthy return by the all-star break. That injury does muddy the waters though.

This is just me but Thomas is a non-starter in my book. I think he's lazy and uninterested a lot. I'd rather have Bass than Thomas I think. Also Thomas's deal is worse than Bass's and he's had injury problems his whole career.

1. Bucks: I think Lee for Dalembert makes sense for both teams.  Lee's due to fall almost entirely out of the rotation with Bradley's return...

There is no way Lee falls out of the rotation. I'd argue that Lee has played very hard for us this season, he's just shooting poorly. Similar to Pietrus last season. I'd make the Lee for Dalembert swap but that would be very good value for MIL on a player they don't even want. I'd do Lee/Bass/2nd for LRMM/Dalembert.

3. T-Wolves: I can definitely see their need for Lee, but what would they be willing to give up?  I know Derrick Williams has been a disappointment (and Adelman's not a big fan apparently), but I don't think they are trading last year's #2 pick for a back-up grade 2-guard.   I like Stiemsma, but I'd want a little more in return for Lee and Minny doesn't have much else that's appealing (nor are they so loaded with bigs that they'd deal Steamer without getting a big in return).

I'd do Lee for Williams straight up and I'd throw in a 2nd if that is what it took. What about Lee/Sully for Williams/Steamer? I'd hate to give up Sully in a rotation player deal but I'd have to think about it.

I'm curious as to why you think there's no way Lee falls out of the rotation.  Terry already jumped ahead of him in the rotation and Bradley's a 30 mpg player.  Pierce and Green already have the SF minutes on lockdown. 

I think Lee will be relegated to ~10mpg with a decent sized chance of slipping out of the rotation altogether when the playoffs come around and the rotation tightens.
Pick 2 Team: Rockets (McHale)
PG M. Chalmers ($4 mil) SG J. Harden ($5.8 mil) SF W. Chandler ($5.9) PF Nene ($13) C S. Hawes ($6.5) 6th man: Ginobli ($14.1) 7th man: Marv Williams ($8.3) Enforcers: F. Ezeli ($1), C. Hayes ($5.5) Bench Marksman: A. Morrow ($4) Young Gun: R. Jackson ($1.2) Greybeard: P. Prigioni ($.5) Towel-Waver: Mike Scott ($.5)

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 05:14:38 PM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1968
  • Tommy Points: 109
Quote
    Bass:
    1. Blazers: I don't see a deal that would appeal to both teams.  The best I'd see the Blazers offering is something like Freeland, Jeffries and Pavlovic, which would be pointless for Boston and just about any other team (ruling out 3rd party deals).



I'd take Jeffries in a deal for Bass. His play last season for the NYK was very under appreciated. The money doesn't add up but I'd be a part in bringing in Jeffries for sure.

It might not be popular but this thread has me thinking

Trade Lee for Dalembert
then
Trade Bass for Jeffries + Nolan Smith (cap filler) and 1st

portland might laugh at the idea of giving up a pick up there bench is terrible and bass round out a nice rotation Aldridge, Hickson, Meyers, and Bass.

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 05:30:28 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9408
  • Tommy Points: 505
I'm curious as to why you think there's no way Lee falls out of the rotation.  Terry already jumped ahead of him in the rotation and Bradley's a 30 mpg player.  Pierce and Green already have the SF minutes on lockdown. 

I think Lee will be relegated to ~10mpg with a decent sized chance of slipping out of the rotation altogether when the playoffs come around and the rotation tightens.
I'm not sure why you thought Lee was ahead from Terry in the rotation; this was never going to happen.

Also not sure why people think Bradley will step on the court and start logging 30 mpg right away.
Managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 05:44:34 PM »

Offline Who

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30371
  • Tommy Points: 1276
Portland wouldn't have any interest in Brandon Bass.

They want to do three things: (1) Develop their young prospects (2) Build through the draft (3) Maintain cap flexibility and acquire All-Star talent via Free Agency.

That is why Brandon Bass doesn't fit into their team. His contract alone makes it a non-starter for Portland.

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 06:00:49 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Ray Allen
  • **
  • Posts: 2080
  • Tommy Points: 190
Quote
I doubt though that teams that fit that description would be calling for Bass or Lee.  I think they'd be calling for Sully and AB instead. 

True but like everything else some times you have to shoot high then settle for the realistic. Much like its great to think about the Cs trading for cousins but realistically come the deadline i expect Dalembert.

Also around the NBA I expect some solid interest in Bass because he has a nice off the bench skill set.

Lee might become the classic buy when he is low deal for a team that just needs a talent upgrade.

TP for looking at it in a different way. And I agree that you should always aim high at first, because this raises the level of the eventual deal that is struck.

I would love to get Dalembert. Though he isn't a potential franchise player such as Cousins, or even potential all-around All-Star caliber such as Gortat, he's a great defensive presence with legit length who'll protect the rim. For Bass and Lee? Sign me up. He's getting only 17 minutes a game in Milwaukee, but give him closer to his career average of 25 per, and he'll probably give his career averages of 8 points, 8 rebounds, and 2 blocks per, and is also a decent free throw shooter.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis


Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 07:08:29 PM »

Offline snively

  • Antoine Walker
  • *****
  • Posts: 5380
  • Tommy Points: 383
I'm curious as to why you think there's no way Lee falls out of the rotation.  Terry already jumped ahead of him in the rotation and Bradley's a 30 mpg player.  Pierce and Green already have the SF minutes on lockdown. 

I think Lee will be relegated to ~10mpg with a decent sized chance of slipping out of the rotation altogether when the playoffs come around and the rotation tightens.
I'm not sure why you thought Lee was ahead from Terry in the rotation; this was never going to happen.

Also not sure why people think Bradley will step on the court and start logging 30 mpg right away.

Lee has lost the starting job to Terry twice - that's what I was referring too.  He was brought in to be the starting 2-guard, and he fell behind Terry in that role.  Doc has repeatedly stated that he'd rather have Terry off the bench.

And I don't see why Bradley would be on a minutes restriction for more than the first game or two.  How many minutes are you expecting him to play?  By the end of last year, when we were playing our best ball, he was averaging 33mpg. 

If Bradley's healthy enough to play, I don't see any point in limiting his minutes more than last year for the bulk of the season.
Pick 2 Team: Rockets (McHale)
PG M. Chalmers ($4 mil) SG J. Harden ($5.8 mil) SF W. Chandler ($5.9) PF Nene ($13) C S. Hawes ($6.5) 6th man: Ginobli ($14.1) 7th man: Marv Williams ($8.3) Enforcers: F. Ezeli ($1), C. Hayes ($5.5) Bench Marksman: A. Morrow ($4) Young Gun: R. Jackson ($1.2) Greybeard: P. Prigioni ($.5) Towel-Waver: Mike Scott ($.5)

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 07:26:13 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9408
  • Tommy Points: 505
I'm curious as to why you think there's no way Lee falls out of the rotation.  Terry already jumped ahead of him in the rotation and Bradley's a 30 mpg player.  Pierce and Green already have the SF minutes on lockdown. 

I think Lee will be relegated to ~10mpg with a decent sized chance of slipping out of the rotation altogether when the playoffs come around and the rotation tightens.
I'm not sure why you thought Lee was ahead from Terry in the rotation; this was never going to happen.

Also not sure why people think Bradley will step on the court and start logging 30 mpg right away.

Lee has lost the starting job to Terry twice - that's what I was referring too.  He was brought in to be the starting 2-guard, and he fell behind Terry in that role.  Doc has repeatedly stated that he'd rather have Terry off the bench.

And I don't see why Bradley would be on a minutes restriction for more than the first game or two.  How many minutes are you expecting him to play?  By the end of last year, when we were playing our best ball, he was averaging 33mpg. 

If Bradley's healthy enough to play, I don't see any point in limiting his minutes more than last year for the bulk of the season.
Lee may have lost his starting job, but Jason Terry is playing exactly the number of minutes I expected him to be playing. I don't think Lee has lost anything in this respect.

There are 30-35 minutes available behind Rondo and Terry at this point. Once Bradley comes back, I fully expect him to split these with Lee at pretty much an equal clip. In any case, I don't see him playing more than 20 mpg for a bit. Maybe he's "healthy", as in medically cleared to play -- but he did have double shoulder surgery, and was off of basketball activities for pretty much the whole summer and then some.
Managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: different way to look at potential trade ideas
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2012, 12:12:34 AM »

Offline nostar

  • Jeff Green
  • Posts: 533
  • Tommy Points: 51
I'd be fine using Bradley to acquire an all-star level talent and keeping Lee. I'd also be fine using Lee to acquire a mid-level big and keeping AB.

I do agree that one will have to go but it's really nice to have the depth while we can and if nothing comes up it's not like having too many proficient guards is the worst problem we've ever had.

I also think this problem existed when we had Bass/Sully/Wilcox/Darko/Collins. It's not like that didn't resolve itself.

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsBlog Forums.

Welcome to CelticsBlog