Author Topic: Would you accept this trade? (Rondo + filler for Kyrie/Varejao)  (Read 7320 times)

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Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2012, 12:53:40 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I think it's very pessimistic to think that Rondo will stop being an elite player as soon as he hits thirty.  I'd say he has a good eight years left of being an elite player.  I guess that by that standard, I'd have to say that Irving has 14 years left of being an elite player.  However, although, Irving is very, very good right now, he hasn't quite reached that elite status yet.

I'll reiterate that my point is not that I don't like Kyrie Irving as a player, but Rajon Rondo is a top ten player in the league today.  I'm just not interested in trading him for someone who might someday reach that status.

It would be pessimistic if I thought so with no reason to back it.  But Rondo's game is based on athleticism.  When he hits 30, his athleticism will have begun to regress just like every other NBA superstar in the past has.

The players who are able to extend their primes are players who can change their game and mostly do it with a jumpshot.  Look at Kobe, Pierce, Kidd, Billups, etc.  All those players had very long primes and it is because when their quickness and speed dwindled, they were still able to beat their man off the dribble because they forced defenders to play them up close and honor their jumper.  If Rondo develops a jumper, surely he could extend his prime.  But I've seen little evidence of that coming.

We are all witnessing D Wade's game beginning to regress as he has hit age 30, is losing his supreme athleticism and doesn't possess the threat of a deadly jumper.  And Rondo's game is not at the level that Wade's once was.

Wade's an interesting comparison.  I can't think of two players whose games are less alike.  What has always made Wade an elite player is his overpowering athleticism and ability to get to the rack and finish.  He has, however, never been a very good passer or decision maker.  I see Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook as much better comparisons to Wade.

Rondo's elite level (and I mean historically elite level) passing and vision are skills that won't deteriorate even when he begins to lose a step or two.  That will hold him in really good stead as he gets older.  Also, his jumper keeps showing steady improvement.  He'll probably never be a great shooter, but he's already become much more efficient with the mid range jumper.

And, I'd be willing to bet that at thirty-two to thirty-four, Rondo will still be quicker than 95% of players in the league.   
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Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2012, 01:05:23 PM »

Offline dysgenic

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This is a very interesting thread.  I would do the deal, but it was a close decision for me.

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2012, 01:15:25 PM »

Offline ssspence

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No, Rondo is a rare talent and a true celtic. Unless you get a Lebron or Durant you don't trade him.

Absurd. I'd say every GM in the Association would take Irving over Rondo.

I seriously doubt that's the case.  Of course, this argument can go nowhere except "what I say" vs. "what you say" unless one of us has a confirmed report about what all the league's gms have to say about the relative worths of Rondo and Irving.

True, though I don't think it's really a stretch of a claim. Certainly the majority would.

Regardless, comparing Rondo to Durant or Lebron in value is a joke. Can't compare Irving to them either.



 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 01:36:17 PM by ssspence »

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2012, 02:07:40 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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No, Rondo is a rare talent and a true celtic. Unless you get a Lebron or Durant you don't trade him.

Absurd. I'd say every GM in the Association would take Irving over Rondo.

I seriously doubt that's the case.  Of course, this argument can go nowhere except "what I say" vs. "what you say" unless one of us has a confirmed report about what all the league's gms have to say about the relative worths of Rondo and Irving.

True, though I don't think it's really a stretch of a claim. Certainly the majority would.

Regardless, comparing Rondo to Durant or Lebron in value is a joke. Can't compare Irving to them either.

Depends on situation team is in.

If you are starting team from scratch maybe most would pick irving. Also its still a pretty small sample size of irving meaning that there would be greater risk taking him at this point.

OJ Mayo and Tyree Evans looked pretty good there rookie year too.


Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2012, 02:13:58 PM »

Offline ssspence

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No, Rondo is a rare talent and a true celtic. Unless you get a Lebron or Durant you don't trade him.

Absurd. I'd say every GM in the Association would take Irving over Rondo.

I seriously doubt that's the case.  Of course, this argument can go nowhere except "what I say" vs. "what you say" unless one of us has a confirmed report about what all the league's gms have to say about the relative worths of Rondo and Irving.

True, though I don't think it's really a stretch of a claim. Certainly the majority would.

Regardless, comparing Rondo to Durant or Lebron in value is a joke. Can't compare Irving to them either.

Depends on situation team is in.

If you are starting team from scratch maybe most would pick irving. Also its still a pretty small sample size of irving meaning that there would be greater risk taking him at this point.

OJ Mayo and Tyree Evans looked pretty good there rookie year too.

Irving's a rookie?

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2012, 02:39:21 PM »

Offline Moranis

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No, Rondo is a rare talent and a true celtic. Unless you get a Lebron or Durant you don't trade him.

Absurd. I'd say every GM in the Association would take Irving over Rondo.

I seriously doubt that's the case.  Of course, this argument can go nowhere except "what I say" vs. "what you say" unless one of us has a confirmed report about what all the league's gms have to say about the relative worths of Rondo and Irving.

True, though I don't think it's really a stretch of a claim. Certainly the majority would.

Regardless, comparing Rondo to Durant or Lebron in value is a joke. Can't compare Irving to them either.

Depends on situation team is in.

If you are starting team from scratch maybe most would pick irving. Also its still a pretty small sample size of irving meaning that there would be greater risk taking him at this point.

OJ Mayo and Tyree Evans looked pretty good there rookie year too.
First, Irving is better in his second year than he was as a rookie.  Second, Mayo and Evans were no where near as good as Irving as a rookie.  Not even close.  I said it earlier in this thread and will say it again.  Kyrie Irving had the best and most complete rookie season of any PG since Magic Johnson, and I don't really think you could add anyone else to the discussion. 
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Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2012, 03:15:20 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2012, 03:17:37 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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No, Rondo is a rare talent and a true celtic. Unless you get a Lebron or Durant you don't trade him.

Absurd. I'd say every GM in the Association would take Irving over Rondo.

I seriously doubt that's the case.  Of course, this argument can go nowhere except "what I say" vs. "what you say" unless one of us has a confirmed report about what all the league's gms have to say about the relative worths of Rondo and Irving.

True, though I don't think it's really a stretch of a claim. Certainly the majority would.

Regardless, comparing Rondo to Durant or Lebron in value is a joke. Can't compare Irving to them either.

Depends on situation team is in.

If you are starting team from scratch maybe most would pick irving. Also its still a pretty small sample size of irving meaning that there would be greater risk taking him at this point.

OJ Mayo and Tyree Evans looked pretty good there rookie year too.
First, Irving is better in his second year than he was as a rookie.  Second, Mayo and Evans were no where near as good as Irving as a rookie.  Not even close.  I said it earlier in this thread and will say it again.  Kyrie Irving had the best and most complete rookie season of any PG since Magic Johnson, and I don't really think you could add anyone else to the discussion.

I don't know what you are using as your magic measuring stick, but I think a good case could be made that Evans' rookie year was at least close to as impressive as Irving's.  Certainly, one could make a case that Paul's rookie season was as good, if not better than, Irving's. 

Also, a case could be made that Irving's numbers so far this season are slightly worse than last years.
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Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2012, 03:22:45 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo. 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 03:55:08 PM by Celtics18 »
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Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2012, 03:40:56 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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I would do that trade in 2 seconds. I would also do Rondo for Kyrie straight up.  Kyrie is going to be the best PG in the lkeague very soon.

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2012, 03:52:30 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Uh, yeah. I'd move Rondo in any deal I could get Irving.

And if I get Bob on the side, I'm sending that one to Stern before the Cleveland people put the coke or the alcohol away.

No. Brainer.

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2012, 03:54:27 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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No, Rondo is a rare talent and a true celtic. Unless you get a Lebron or Durant you don't trade him.

Absurd. I'd say every GM in the Association would take Irving over Rondo.

I seriously doubt that's the case.  Of course, this argument can go nowhere except "what I say" vs. "what you say" unless one of us has a confirmed report about what all the league's gms have to say about the relative worths of Rondo and Irving.

True, though I don't think it's really a stretch of a claim. Certainly the majority would.

Regardless, comparing Rondo to Durant or Lebron in value is a joke. Can't compare Irving to them either.

Depends on situation team is in.

If you are starting team from scratch maybe most would pick irving. Also its still a pretty small sample size of irving meaning that there would be greater risk taking him at this point.

OJ Mayo and Tyree Evans looked pretty good there rookie year too.

Irving's a rookie?

How many games has he played in? 80? Yeah he's basically a rookie

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2012, 03:59:35 PM »

Offline KG_ended_Bias

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So thats what we base PG's these days is scoring? Isn't the PG 1st job is to get everyone involved & sacrifice his personal success to increase or maximize another potential? You guys are clueless sometimes.

Rondo vs. Irving

Passing: Rondo & by a longshot he's in "Kidd-Stockton-Magic" zone

Rebounding: Rondo

Shooting: Irving

FT Shooting: Irving

Defense: Rondo

Steals: Rondo

Speed: Rondo

Handle: Equal

Athletcism: Rondo

Durability: Rondo

Intangibles: Rondo

Body type: Rondo "7ft arm length, hands & vision"

Ability to dominate the game on both ends: Rondo "look at the triple doubles alrealdy accumulated"

Postseason clutchness: Rondo being we have no clue what Irving will do yet

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2012, 04:03:26 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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No, Rondo is a rare talent and a true celtic. Unless you get a Lebron or Durant you don't trade him.

Absurd. I'd say every GM in the Association would take Irving over Rondo.

I seriously doubt that's the case.  Of course, this argument can go nowhere except "what I say" vs. "what you say" unless one of us has a confirmed report about what all the league's gms have to say about the relative worths of Rondo and Irving.

True, though I don't think it's really a stretch of a claim. Certainly the majority would.

Regardless, comparing Rondo to Durant or Lebron in value is a joke. Can't compare Irving to them either.

Depends on situation team is in.

If you are starting team from scratch maybe most would pick irving. Also its still a pretty small sample size of irving meaning that there would be greater risk taking him at this point.

OJ Mayo and Tyree Evans looked pretty good there rookie year too.
First, Irving is better in his second year than he was as a rookie.  Second, Mayo and Evans were no where near as good as Irving as a rookie.  Not even close.  I said it earlier in this thread and will say it again.  Kyrie Irving had the best and most complete rookie season of any PG since Magic Johnson, and I don't really think you could add anyone else to the discussion.

Ugh how about Blake Griffins rookie season after a torn acl?

A couple years later and im not really sold on him becoming the greatest pf ever. Allen Iverson wasn't to shabby his rookie year either

If you say you would take Irving over everyone but Lebron than that makes sense.

My only point is that you can't just pencil him in right now as a HOF, at least I don't think you can

Re: Would you accept this trade?
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2012, 04:33:02 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 04:39:29 PM by LarBrd33 »

 

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