Would you accept this trade? (Rondo + filler for Kyrie/Varejao)

[Celtics18]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.

That would make you wrong.

[hpantazo]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

Irving is by all means an adult. He's old enough to go to war for our country, he's an adult. Rondo could easily hit all of those averages on the Cavs AND have a much higher assist average, the only one he can't do is the FT% average.

[CelticsFan9]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  no.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

I wouldn't say Irving's better RIGHT NOW, but down the road, I think Irving could make a case for best point guard in the league.

The fact that he's played less than 100 games collegiately/professionally and is already this goodies incredible.  I hope he can get a really nice supporting cast around because the dude is going to be a beast.

As for the trade, I'm leaning towards accepting it.  Irving and Varejao for Rondo?  That could end up being a steal down the road.

[LarBrd33]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

Irving is by all means an adult. He's old enough to go to war for our country, he's an adult. Rondo could easily hit all of those averages on the Cavs AND have a much higher assist average, the only one he can't do is the FT% average.

Cool beans.  When Rondo was Irving's age he averaged 6 points, 3.8 assists on 41% shooting, 20% from three and 65% from the line.   I think it's adorable that you believe ROndo could play with that garbage supporting cast and suddenly start shooting 40% from three and 80% from the line (he's currently shooting 28%/64% respectively).  I tend to think having players like Pierce (who can still drop 40 on a whim) takes a little attention off Rondo in Boston.  It's certainly a luxury Irving doesn't have in Cleveland. 

In terms of efficiency, Irving at 20 years old is slightly below Rondo at his absolute peak.   The season isn't over yet, though.   It would be interesting to see what Irving could do with Rondo's star teammates and vice versa.  I have to give Rondo the slight nod at the moment simply because through 24 games, he's playing better than he's ever played... which makes sense since most players peak at his age.  But Irving at age 20 is sensational... If I had the opportunity to trade Rondo for Irving, I'd do it.  Pretty sure most GM's throughout the league would as well. 

[Celtics18]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.

Neither would happen.  It's the ridiculously tired old argument that the only reason Rajon Rondo is such a good passer is because of the teammates he plays with.  Oddly enough, as the "big three" has turned into "two" and one of them can only play 29 minutes a night and many fans are panicking that the other one is completely washed up, Rondo's assist numbers just keep climbing.

News flash:  Rondo's a really, really good passer--like historically good passer, one of the best ever.  His detractors should be able to recognize this by now. 

[hpantazo]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

Irving is by all means an adult. He's old enough to go to war for our country, he's an adult. Rondo could easily hit all of those averages on the Cavs AND have a much higher assist average, the only one he can't do is the FT% average.

Cool beans.  When Rondo was Irving's age he averaged 6 points, 3.8 assists on 41% shooting, 20% from three and 65% from the line.   I think it's adorable that you believe ROndo could play with that garbage supporting cast and suddenly start shooting 40% from three and 80% from the line (he's currently shooting 28%/64% respectively).  I tend to think having players like Pierce (who can still drop 40 on a whim) takes a little attention off Rondo in Boston.  It's certainly a luxury Irving doesn't have in Cleveland. 

In terms of efficiency, Irving at 20 years old is slightly below Rondo at his absolute peak.   The season isn't over yet, though.   It would be interesting to see what Irving could do with Rondo's star teammates and vice versa.  I have to give Rondo the slight nod at the moment simply because through 24 games, he's playing better than he's ever played... which makes sense since most players peak at his age.  But Irving at age 20 is sensational... If I had the opportunity to trade Rondo for Irving, I'd do it.  Pretty sure most GM's throughout the league would as well.

You may be correct, I just think that Rondo is one of those special players who does what his team needs and finds a way to win. I also don't think he has reached his peak yet. You can make the argument that if Rondo had a young, athletic supporting cast he would be even better, and his skills have not been the best match with the old vets he has been playing with. Dribbling out the clock waiting for Ray to get open off multiple screens just to have to take a last second contested 3 himself certainly didn't help.

As much as I'm glad that KG and Paul stayed for this year and the next, I was also looking forward to seeing what Rondo could do with a younger running team.

Either way, TP for making a sound, reasonable argument.

[LarBrd33]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.
 

Is it, though? 

Is it?

Look... I'll admit off the bat that maybe I undervalue the difficulty of getting assists a bit.  It does take talent.  That said, Rondo's been playing on this team with this coach for 7 years now.  Our offense is built around his weaknesses.  He controls the ball constantly... players come off screens... he passes to the open guy.  He's undeniably talented, but our system is structured for him to get tons of assists.

ROndo's averaging 13.7 points, 11.9 assists on 51% shooting, 29% from three and 64% from the line.

Irving is averaging 23 points, 5.5 assists on 46% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line.

Let's talk about their supporting cast, because it's absolutely relevant.

On the Cavs, there are a total of 6 players who have career shooting percentages above 43%. 

Varejao - 51% - 7 PPG career average
Thompson - 45% - 8.5
Zeller - 44% - 7.7
Samuels - 45% - 5.9
Leuer - 49% - 4.6
Walton - 43% - 4.8

That's pathetic.  Most of those guys are total dog crap players.  This season, only three of them are shooting over 43%... Varejao, Thompson and Zeller.  Nobody on that team has double digit career averages.  The suddenly vastly overrated Varejao is averaging 14 points by default.  It's a team of garbage.  It's a wonder Irving can average 5.5 assists in the first place.


Now take a look at Rondo's supporting cast.  He's got a total of 10 players with career shooting percentage above 43%.   

Barbosa - 46% - 12.2 PPG career average
Bass - 49% - 8.4
Bradley - 48% - 5.6
KG - 50% - 19
Green - 44% - 13.5
LEe - 44% - 9.7
Pierce - 45% - 22
Sully - 47% - 5
Terry - 45% - 16
Wilcox - 54% - 8.5

In other words... Chris Wilcox is a better offensive player than ANYONE on the Cavs roster outside of Irving.  Nobody on Cleveland is commanding attention other than IRving... it's nothing short of incredible that Irving can shoot as well as he does.  9 of the players on Boston are shooting over 43% this year as well (Barbosa hasn't had enough shots to get his percentage up).    Is it at all surprising that a ball dominating player who only has to pass is averaging 12 assists with those scorers?  No. 

Is it at really all that unthinkable that Irving, in Rondo's role with Rondo's supporting cast would average 12 assists?   Don't know.  You tell me.  Irving takes 7 more shots per night (because he has to) ... if he took 7 less shots playing with BOston's scorers, how many more assists would he get?   

Would Rondo get 12 assists per game while playing with Varejao, Thompson and Zeller as opposed to Bass, KG, Green, Lee, Pierce, Terry, etc? ... Dunno.  You tell me.  Very unlikely since he'd be asked to score a lot more.  Boston has 5 guys capable of dropping double digits every night... Cleveland has none.  Would Rondo average a very efficient 23 points while playing with those Cleveland bums?  Absolutely not.  He's not capable of that kind of shooting.

I love Rondo.  This is his best season ever.  I'd trade him for Irving without question.  I understand the rebuttal to all of this is, "It's not a pointguard's job to score!... it's to get people involved"... Fine.  I get that.  The truly great ones (like Magic, Isiah and CHris Paul) manage to do both. 

[hpantazo]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.
 

Is it, though? 

Is it?

Look... I'll admit off the bat that maybe I undervalue the difficulty of getting assists a bit.  It does take talent.  That said, Rondo's been playing on this team with this coach for 7 years now.  Our offense is built around his weaknesses.  He controls the ball constantly... players come off screens... he passes to the open guy.  He's undeniably talented, but our system is structured for him to get tons of assists.

ROndo's averaging 13.7 points, 11.9 assists on 51% shooting, 29% from three and 64% from the line.

Irving is averaging 23 points, 5.5 assists on 46% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line.

Let's talk about their supporting cast, because it's absolutely relevant.

On the Cavs, there are a total of 6 players who have career shooting percentages above 43%. 

Varejao - 51% - 7 PPG career average
Thompson - 45% - 8.5
Zeller - 44% - 7.7
Samuels - 45% - 5.9
Leuer - 49% - 4.6
Walton - 43% - 4.8

That's pathetic.  Most of those guys are total dog crap players.  This season, only three of them are shooting over 43%... Varejao, Thompson and Zeller.  Nobody on that team has double digit career averages.  The suddenly vastly overrated Varejao is averaging 14 points by default.  It's a team of garbage.  It's a wonder Irving can average 5.5 assists in the first place.


Now take a look at Rondo's supporting cast.  He's got a total of 10 players with career shooting percentage above 43%.   

Barbosa - 46% - 12.2 PPG career average
Bass - 49% - 8.4
Bradley - 48% - 5.6
KG - 50% - 19
Green - 44% - 13.5
LEe - 44% - 9.7
Pierce - 45% - 22
Sully - 47% - 5
Terry - 45% - 16
Wilcox - 54% - 8.5

In other words... Chris Wilcox is a better offensive player than ANYONE on the Cavs roster outside of Irving.  Nobody on Cleveland is commanding attention other than IRving... it's nothing short of incredible that Irving can shoot as well as he does.  9 of the players on Boston are shooting over 43% this year as well (Barbosa hasn't had enough shots to get his percentage up).    Is it at all surprising that a ball dominating player who only has to pass is averaging 12 assists with those scorers?  No. 

Is it at really all that unthinkable that Irving, in Rondo's role with Rondo's supporting cast would average 12 assists?  Don't know.  You tell me.   Would Rondo get 12 assists per game while playing with Varejao, Thompson and Zeller as opposed to Bass, KG, Green, Lee, Pierce, Terry, etc? ... Dunno.  You tell me.   Would Rondo average a very efficient 23 points while playing with those Cleveland bums?  Absolutely not.  He's not capable of that kind of shooting.

I love Rondo.  This is his best season ever.  I'd trade him for Irving without question.

You missed the 2nd best offensive player on the team, Dion Waiters. And there is no way that you can call Wilcox a better offensive player than anyone on the Cavs except Irving. That's just false. Field goal percentage is not an appropriate measure of how good an offensive player someone is. If a guy takes 2 shots a game, and both are ally-oop dunks from passes by Rondo, that doesn't make him a better offensive player than Varejao, Zeller, or anyone else. If you put Rondo with Varejao, he would get 5 times as many open dunks than Wilcox.

[LarBrd33]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.
 

Is it, though? 

Is it?

Look... I'll admit off the bat that maybe I undervalue the difficulty of getting assists a bit.  It does take talent.  That said, Rondo's been playing on this team with this coach for 7 years now.  Our offense is built around his weaknesses.  He controls the ball constantly... players come off screens... he passes to the open guy.  He's undeniably talented, but our system is structured for him to get tons of assists.

ROndo's averaging 13.7 points, 11.9 assists on 51% shooting, 29% from three and 64% from the line.

Irving is averaging 23 points, 5.5 assists on 46% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line.

Let's talk about their supporting cast, because it's absolutely relevant.

On the Cavs, there are a total of 6 players who have career shooting percentages above 43%. 

Varejao - 51% - 7 PPG career average
Thompson - 45% - 8.5
Zeller - 44% - 7.7
Samuels - 45% - 5.9
Leuer - 49% - 4.6
Walton - 43% - 4.8

That's pathetic.  Most of those guys are total dog crap players.  This season, only three of them are shooting over 43%... Varejao, Thompson and Zeller.  Nobody on that team has double digit career averages.  The suddenly vastly overrated Varejao is averaging 14 points by default.  It's a team of garbage.  It's a wonder Irving can average 5.5 assists in the first place.


Now take a look at Rondo's supporting cast.  He's got a total of 10 players with career shooting percentage above 43%.   

Barbosa - 46% - 12.2 PPG career average
Bass - 49% - 8.4
Bradley - 48% - 5.6
KG - 50% - 19
Green - 44% - 13.5
LEe - 44% - 9.7
Pierce - 45% - 22
Sully - 47% - 5
Terry - 45% - 16
Wilcox - 54% - 8.5

In other words... Chris Wilcox is a better offensive player than ANYONE on the Cavs roster outside of Irving.  Nobody on Cleveland is commanding attention other than IRving... it's nothing short of incredible that Irving can shoot as well as he does.  9 of the players on Boston are shooting over 43% this year as well (Barbosa hasn't had enough shots to get his percentage up).    Is it at all surprising that a ball dominating player who only has to pass is averaging 12 assists with those scorers?  No. 

Is it at really all that unthinkable that Irving, in Rondo's role with Rondo's supporting cast would average 12 assists?  Don't know.  You tell me.   Would Rondo get 12 assists per game while playing with Varejao, Thompson and Zeller as opposed to Bass, KG, Green, Lee, Pierce, Terry, etc? ... Dunno.  You tell me.   Would Rondo average a very efficient 23 points while playing with those Cleveland bums?  Absolutely not.  He's not capable of that kind of shooting.

I love Rondo.  This is his best season ever.  I'd trade him for Irving without question.

You missed the 2nd best offensive player on the team, Dion Waiters.

Dion Waiters is a rookie who is shooting 37% and 32% from three.  He'd probably be playing on our d-league roster.  Next question?

[action781]

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.

You have been making a lot of really weird statements in this thread.  It's far more absurd to think that rondo would shoot 40% form three and 80% from the line.  He can't even shoot 40% on wide open threes.

If Irving changed his game and decided to pass a lot instead of score, he'd likely give out 10+ assists per game on a team as good as the celtics.  But that wouldn't benefit his current team, his team needs him to score the ball, so that's what he does.  Assists are as much about mental mindset as ability.  Rondo has a very pass-first mindset (in addition to an excellent ability to pass), which is wonderful and why he racks up so many assists.  But this is something a player can change about his game.  Ability to hit free throws is not a mindset, it is pure ability.

I'm not saying Irving *would* average 12 assists/game (he probably wouldn't), but he certainly *could* more easily than Rondo could shoot 80% from the stripe.  Because one stat is about mindset and what the team needs and the other is about pure ability.

[hpantazo]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.
 

Is it, though? 

Is it?

Look... I'll admit off the bat that maybe I undervalue the difficulty of getting assists a bit.  It does take talent.  That said, Rondo's been playing on this team with this coach for 7 years now.  Our offense is built around his weaknesses.  He controls the ball constantly... players come off screens... he passes to the open guy.  He's undeniably talented, but our system is structured for him to get tons of assists.

ROndo's averaging 13.7 points, 11.9 assists on 51% shooting, 29% from three and 64% from the line.

Irving is averaging 23 points, 5.5 assists on 46% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line.

Let's talk about their supporting cast, because it's absolutely relevant.

On the Cavs, there are a total of 6 players who have career shooting percentages above 43%. 

Varejao - 51% - 7 PPG career average
Thompson - 45% - 8.5
Zeller - 44% - 7.7
Samuels - 45% - 5.9
Leuer - 49% - 4.6
Walton - 43% - 4.8

That's pathetic.  Most of those guys are total dog crap players.  This season, only three of them are shooting over 43%... Varejao, Thompson and Zeller.  Nobody on that team has double digit career averages.  The suddenly vastly overrated Varejao is averaging 14 points by default.  It's a team of garbage.  It's a wonder Irving can average 5.5 assists in the first place.


Now take a look at Rondo's supporting cast.  He's got a total of 10 players with career shooting percentage above 43%.   

Barbosa - 46% - 12.2 PPG career average
Bass - 49% - 8.4
Bradley - 48% - 5.6
KG - 50% - 19
Green - 44% - 13.5
LEe - 44% - 9.7
Pierce - 45% - 22
Sully - 47% - 5
Terry - 45% - 16
Wilcox - 54% - 8.5

In other words... Chris Wilcox is a better offensive player than ANYONE on the Cavs roster outside of Irving.  Nobody on Cleveland is commanding attention other than IRving... it's nothing short of incredible that Irving can shoot as well as he does.  9 of the players on Boston are shooting over 43% this year as well (Barbosa hasn't had enough shots to get his percentage up).    Is it at all surprising that a ball dominating player who only has to pass is averaging 12 assists with those scorers?  No. 

Is it at really all that unthinkable that Irving, in Rondo's role with Rondo's supporting cast would average 12 assists?  Don't know.  You tell me.   Would Rondo get 12 assists per game while playing with Varejao, Thompson and Zeller as opposed to Bass, KG, Green, Lee, Pierce, Terry, etc? ... Dunno.  You tell me.   Would Rondo average a very efficient 23 points while playing with those Cleveland bums?  Absolutely not.  He's not capable of that kind of shooting.

I love Rondo.  This is his best season ever.  I'd trade him for Irving without question.

You missed the 2nd best offensive player on the team, Dion Waiters.

Dion Waiters is a rookie who is shooting 37% and 32% from three.  He'd probably be playing on our d-league roster.  Next question?

Waiters was the #4 pick in the draft and clearly the 2nd best offensive player on the Cavs. He would be a significant part of our offense, maybe even a starter on our team. And what about the fact that Varejao would get many, many more open looks that Wilcox does if Rondo was his teammate?

This season, Rondo's numbers are his best ever, and it is painfully clear that Pierce and KG just don't have the ability to get their own shots anymore like they used to. The offense is not built to hide Rondo's weaknesses, it's built to compensate for the regression in offensive ability of Pierce and KG. Their careers are extended because they play with Rondo. Pierce is coming off more screens to get a look than anytime ever in his career, and Doc clearly stated that it was a deliberate strategy to help him get looks now that he's older.

[LarBrd33]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.
 

Is it, though? 

Is it?

Look... I'll admit off the bat that maybe I undervalue the difficulty of getting assists a bit.  It does take talent.  That said, Rondo's been playing on this team with this coach for 7 years now.  Our offense is built around his weaknesses.  He controls the ball constantly... players come off screens... he passes to the open guy.  He's undeniably talented, but our system is structured for him to get tons of assists.

ROndo's averaging 13.7 points, 11.9 assists on 51% shooting, 29% from three and 64% from the line.

Irving is averaging 23 points, 5.5 assists on 46% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line.

Let's talk about their supporting cast, because it's absolutely relevant.

On the Cavs, there are a total of 6 players who have career shooting percentages above 43%. 

Varejao - 51% - 7 PPG career average
Thompson - 45% - 8.5
Zeller - 44% - 7.7
Samuels - 45% - 5.9
Leuer - 49% - 4.6
Walton - 43% - 4.8

That's pathetic.  Most of those guys are total dog crap players.  This season, only three of them are shooting over 43%... Varejao, Thompson and Zeller.  Nobody on that team has double digit career averages.  The suddenly vastly overrated Varejao is averaging 14 points by default.  It's a team of garbage.  It's a wonder Irving can average 5.5 assists in the first place.


Now take a look at Rondo's supporting cast.  He's got a total of 10 players with career shooting percentage above 43%.   

Barbosa - 46% - 12.2 PPG career average
Bass - 49% - 8.4
Bradley - 48% - 5.6
KG - 50% - 19
Green - 44% - 13.5
LEe - 44% - 9.7
Pierce - 45% - 22
Sully - 47% - 5
Terry - 45% - 16
Wilcox - 54% - 8.5

In other words... Chris Wilcox is a better offensive player than ANYONE on the Cavs roster outside of Irving.  Nobody on Cleveland is commanding attention other than IRving... it's nothing short of incredible that Irving can shoot as well as he does.  9 of the players on Boston are shooting over 43% this year as well (Barbosa hasn't had enough shots to get his percentage up).    Is it at all surprising that a ball dominating player who only has to pass is averaging 12 assists with those scorers?  No. 

Is it at really all that unthinkable that Irving, in Rondo's role with Rondo's supporting cast would average 12 assists?  Don't know.  You tell me.   Would Rondo get 12 assists per game while playing with Varejao, Thompson and Zeller as opposed to Bass, KG, Green, Lee, Pierce, Terry, etc? ... Dunno.  You tell me.   Would Rondo average a very efficient 23 points while playing with those Cleveland bums?  Absolutely not.  He's not capable of that kind of shooting.

I love Rondo.  This is his best season ever.  I'd trade him for Irving without question.

You missed the 2nd best offensive player on the team, Dion Waiters.

Dion Waiters is a rookie who is shooting 37% and 32% from three.  He'd probably be playing on our d-league roster.  Next question?

Waiters was the #4 pick in the draft and clearly the 2nd best offensive player on the Cavs. And what about the fact that Varejao would get many, many more open looks that Wilcox does if Rondo was his teammate?

Waiters is the #4 pick.  K.  He's not an efficient scorer. If that's their 2nd best offensive player, it explains why Irving is only averaging 5 assists, right?  How many assists can you get when your top scorer (other than yourself) is only capable of shooting 37% and a dreadful 32% from three.  That's Austin Rivers-esque... Not Pierce/KG/Green/Terry/Bass/Lee-esque
...

You know, maybe I'm crazy, but I seem to forget the 6 years that Varejao played with the king of basketball... the man who commands more attention than anyone in the league... an exceptional passer by the name of LeBron James.  Remind me... was Varejao throwing down dunk-after-dunk-after-dunk playing with James?   I seem to remember him averaging like 6 points.     

Dude couldn't be more overrated right now.  Srsly.   

I think you're totally missing my point.  If you have efficient scorers (Waiters isn't one yet) who are capable of efficient shooting (43% or higher)... and your only job is to pass to those efficient shooters... you're going to have a lot of assists, right?  Am I over simplifying it here?  If I'm playing with 4 guys who are good shooters and my main responsibility is to pass it to them when they are open... aren't I going to get a lot of assists when those shots go in?  Rondo has 10 efficient scorers on his team.  Irving has 3... maybe... if you want to call Varejao, Thompson and Zeller "scorers".  In reality he probably has 0 scorers to pass to since nobody is going to mistake those 3 with a Paul Pierce, KEvin Garnett, Jason Terry, Jeff Green, etc.

[hpantazo]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.
 

Is it, though? 

Is it?

Look... I'll admit off the bat that maybe I undervalue the difficulty of getting assists a bit.  It does take talent.  That said, Rondo's been playing on this team with this coach for 7 years now.  Our offense is built around his weaknesses.  He controls the ball constantly... players come off screens... he passes to the open guy.  He's undeniably talented, but our system is structured for him to get tons of assists.

ROndo's averaging 13.7 points, 11.9 assists on 51% shooting, 29% from three and 64% from the line.

Irving is averaging 23 points, 5.5 assists on 46% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line.

Let's talk about their supporting cast, because it's absolutely relevant.

On the Cavs, there are a total of 6 players who have career shooting percentages above 43%. 

Varejao - 51% - 7 PPG career average
Thompson - 45% - 8.5
Zeller - 44% - 7.7
Samuels - 45% - 5.9
Leuer - 49% - 4.6
Walton - 43% - 4.8

That's pathetic.  Most of those guys are total dog crap players.  This season, only three of them are shooting over 43%... Varejao, Thompson and Zeller.  Nobody on that team has double digit career averages.  The suddenly vastly overrated Varejao is averaging 14 points by default.  It's a team of garbage.  It's a wonder Irving can average 5.5 assists in the first place.


Now take a look at Rondo's supporting cast.  He's got a total of 10 players with career shooting percentage above 43%.   

Barbosa - 46% - 12.2 PPG career average
Bass - 49% - 8.4
Bradley - 48% - 5.6
KG - 50% - 19
Green - 44% - 13.5
LEe - 44% - 9.7
Pierce - 45% - 22
Sully - 47% - 5
Terry - 45% - 16
Wilcox - 54% - 8.5

In other words... Chris Wilcox is a better offensive player than ANYONE on the Cavs roster outside of Irving.  Nobody on Cleveland is commanding attention other than IRving... it's nothing short of incredible that Irving can shoot as well as he does.  9 of the players on Boston are shooting over 43% this year as well (Barbosa hasn't had enough shots to get his percentage up).    Is it at all surprising that a ball dominating player who only has to pass is averaging 12 assists with those scorers?  No. 

Is it at really all that unthinkable that Irving, in Rondo's role with Rondo's supporting cast would average 12 assists?  Don't know.  You tell me.   Would Rondo get 12 assists per game while playing with Varejao, Thompson and Zeller as opposed to Bass, KG, Green, Lee, Pierce, Terry, etc? ... Dunno.  You tell me.   Would Rondo average a very efficient 23 points while playing with those Cleveland bums?  Absolutely not.  He's not capable of that kind of shooting.

I love Rondo.  This is his best season ever.  I'd trade him for Irving without question.

You missed the 2nd best offensive player on the team, Dion Waiters.

Dion Waiters is a rookie who is shooting 37% and 32% from three.  He'd probably be playing on our d-league roster.  Next question?

Waiters was the #4 pick in the draft and clearly the 2nd best offensive player on the Cavs. And what about the fact that Varejao would get many, many more open looks that Wilcox does if Rondo was his teammate?

Waiters is the #4 pick.  K.  He's not an efficient scorer. If that's their 2nd best offensive player, it explains why Irving is only averaging 5 assists, right?  How many assists can you get when your top scorer (other than yourself) is only capable of shooting 37% and a dreadful 32% from three.  That's Austin Rivers-esque... Not Pierce/KG/Green/Terry/Bass/Lee-esque
...

You know, maybe I'm crazy, but I seem to forget the 6 years that Varejao played with the king of basketball... the man who commands more attention than anyone in the league... an exceptional passer by the name of LeBron James.  Remind me... was Varejao throwing down dunk-after-dunk-after-dunk playing with James?   I seem to remember him averaging like 6 points.     

Dude couldn't be more overrated right now.  Srsly.

maybe because the Cavs had like 6 other guys on the team who were very good shooters and the offense was built to spread the floor for James? He also took a lot more shots back then. He really didn't start passing a lot until he got to miami. He should have tried it a couple of years earlier.

So by that reasoning, are you saying you wouldn't trade Wilcox for Varejao right now?

Waiters was out about a month with an injury. His numbers are already climbing now that he's back. He's a legit scoring threat already early in his rookie season.

[LarBrd33]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.
 

Is it, though? 

Is it?

Look... I'll admit off the bat that maybe I undervalue the difficulty of getting assists a bit.  It does take talent.  That said, Rondo's been playing on this team with this coach for 7 years now.  Our offense is built around his weaknesses.  He controls the ball constantly... players come off screens... he passes to the open guy.  He's undeniably talented, but our system is structured for him to get tons of assists.

ROndo's averaging 13.7 points, 11.9 assists on 51% shooting, 29% from three and 64% from the line.

Irving is averaging 23 points, 5.5 assists on 46% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line.

Let's talk about their supporting cast, because it's absolutely relevant.

On the Cavs, there are a total of 6 players who have career shooting percentages above 43%. 

Varejao - 51% - 7 PPG career average
Thompson - 45% - 8.5
Zeller - 44% - 7.7
Samuels - 45% - 5.9
Leuer - 49% - 4.6
Walton - 43% - 4.8

That's pathetic.  Most of those guys are total dog crap players.  This season, only three of them are shooting over 43%... Varejao, Thompson and Zeller.  Nobody on that team has double digit career averages.  The suddenly vastly overrated Varejao is averaging 14 points by default.  It's a team of garbage.  It's a wonder Irving can average 5.5 assists in the first place.


Now take a look at Rondo's supporting cast.  He's got a total of 10 players with career shooting percentage above 43%.   

Barbosa - 46% - 12.2 PPG career average
Bass - 49% - 8.4
Bradley - 48% - 5.6
KG - 50% - 19
Green - 44% - 13.5
LEe - 44% - 9.7
Pierce - 45% - 22
Sully - 47% - 5
Terry - 45% - 16
Wilcox - 54% - 8.5

In other words... Chris Wilcox is a better offensive player than ANYONE on the Cavs roster outside of Irving.  Nobody on Cleveland is commanding attention other than IRving... it's nothing short of incredible that Irving can shoot as well as he does.  9 of the players on Boston are shooting over 43% this year as well (Barbosa hasn't had enough shots to get his percentage up).    Is it at all surprising that a ball dominating player who only has to pass is averaging 12 assists with those scorers?  No. 

Is it at really all that unthinkable that Irving, in Rondo's role with Rondo's supporting cast would average 12 assists?  Don't know.  You tell me.   Would Rondo get 12 assists per game while playing with Varejao, Thompson and Zeller as opposed to Bass, KG, Green, Lee, Pierce, Terry, etc? ... Dunno.  You tell me.   Would Rondo average a very efficient 23 points while playing with those Cleveland bums?  Absolutely not.  He's not capable of that kind of shooting.

I love Rondo.  This is his best season ever.  I'd trade him for Irving without question.

You missed the 2nd best offensive player on the team, Dion Waiters.

Dion Waiters is a rookie who is shooting 37% and 32% from three.  He'd probably be playing on our d-league roster.  Next question?

Waiters was the #4 pick in the draft and clearly the 2nd best offensive player on the Cavs. And what about the fact that Varejao would get many, many more open looks that Wilcox does if Rondo was his teammate?

Waiters is the #4 pick.  K.  He's not an efficient scorer. If that's their 2nd best offensive player, it explains why Irving is only averaging 5 assists, right?  How many assists can you get when your top scorer (other than yourself) is only capable of shooting 37% and a dreadful 32% from three.  That's Austin Rivers-esque... Not Pierce/KG/Green/Terry/Bass/Lee-esque
...

You know, maybe I'm crazy, but I seem to forget the 6 years that Varejao played with the king of basketball... the man who commands more attention than anyone in the league... an exceptional passer by the name of LeBron James.  Remind me... was Varejao throwing down dunk-after-dunk-after-dunk playing with James?   I seem to remember him averaging like 6 points.     

Dude couldn't be more overrated right now.  Srsly.

maybe because the Cavs had like 6 other guys on the team who were very good shooters and the offense was built to spread the floor for James? He also took a lot more shots back then. He really didn't start passing a lot until he got to miami. He should have tried it a couple of years earlier.

Waiters was out about a month with an injury. His numbers are already climbing now that he's back. He's a legit scoring threat already early in his rookie season.

His numbers aren't climbing.  Are you just making stuff up?  For the month of December he's averaging 12 points with a dreadful 35% shooting... a ghastly 16% from three. 



Lol sorry I couldn't help myself. 

[hpantazo]

People don't understand how good he is.  Kyrie at age 19 was arguably better than LeBron or Durant as rookie teenagers.  Those two shot like 40% as rookies.  He's unbelievable... he played like 11 games in College, stepped into the NBA and was already one of the best shooters in the entire league.  It's incredible he was able to be that efficient with that supporting cast with that kind of attention.  Incredible.

Rondo's a great player... I'd take Kyrie over him easily.

I understand how good he is, I just don't think it's a given that he'll ever be as good as Rondo.

I think he might be better than Rondo already.  Hard to say.  The fact that he's still a child and scoring that efficiently with no supporting cast (meaning he's getting all the attention of the defense) is sort of mind-blowing.  It would be interesting to see what he'd do with a supporting cast like Rondo's.   

Could Irving get 12 assists per game on Boston?  Maybe

Could Rondo average 23 points on the Cavs while shooting 46% FG, 40% from three and 80% from the line?  No.

Can't wait to see how good Irving is as an adult.

To be fair to Rondo, it's hard to compare anyone to him at the moment.  Through 24 games, he's second only to the great Chris Paul in terms of efficiency.  He's having the best season of his career so far.

It's just as absurd to think that Irving could average 12 assists for the Celtics as it is to think that Rondo would shoot 40% from three and eighty from the line for the Cavs.
 

Is it, though? 

Is it?

Look... I'll admit off the bat that maybe I undervalue the difficulty of getting assists a bit.  It does take talent.  That said, Rondo's been playing on this team with this coach for 7 years now.  Our offense is built around his weaknesses.  He controls the ball constantly... players come off screens... he passes to the open guy.  He's undeniably talented, but our system is structured for him to get tons of assists.

ROndo's averaging 13.7 points, 11.9 assists on 51% shooting, 29% from three and 64% from the line.

Irving is averaging 23 points, 5.5 assists on 46% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line.

Let's talk about their supporting cast, because it's absolutely relevant.

On the Cavs, there are a total of 6 players who have career shooting percentages above 43%. 

Varejao - 51% - 7 PPG career average
Thompson - 45% - 8.5
Zeller - 44% - 7.7
Samuels - 45% - 5.9
Leuer - 49% - 4.6
Walton - 43% - 4.8

That's pathetic.  Most of those guys are total dog crap players.  This season, only three of them are shooting over 43%... Varejao, Thompson and Zeller.  Nobody on that team has double digit career averages.  The suddenly vastly overrated Varejao is averaging 14 points by default.  It's a team of garbage.  It's a wonder Irving can average 5.5 assists in the first place.


Now take a look at Rondo's supporting cast.  He's got a total of 10 players with career shooting percentage above 43%.   

Barbosa - 46% - 12.2 PPG career average
Bass - 49% - 8.4
Bradley - 48% - 5.6
KG - 50% - 19
Green - 44% - 13.5
LEe - 44% - 9.7
Pierce - 45% - 22
Sully - 47% - 5
Terry - 45% - 16
Wilcox - 54% - 8.5

In other words... Chris Wilcox is a better offensive player than ANYONE on the Cavs roster outside of Irving.  Nobody on Cleveland is commanding attention other than IRving... it's nothing short of incredible that Irving can shoot as well as he does.  9 of the players on Boston are shooting over 43% this year as well (Barbosa hasn't had enough shots to get his percentage up).    Is it at all surprising that a ball dominating player who only has to pass is averaging 12 assists with those scorers?  No. 

Is it at really all that unthinkable that Irving, in Rondo's role with Rondo's supporting cast would average 12 assists?  Don't know.  You tell me.   Would Rondo get 12 assists per game while playing with Varejao, Thompson and Zeller as opposed to Bass, KG, Green, Lee, Pierce, Terry, etc? ... Dunno.  You tell me.   Would Rondo average a very efficient 23 points while playing with those Cleveland bums?  Absolutely not.  He's not capable of that kind of shooting.

I love Rondo.  This is his best season ever.  I'd trade him for Irving without question.

You missed the 2nd best offensive player on the team, Dion Waiters.

Dion Waiters is a rookie who is shooting 37% and 32% from three.  He'd probably be playing on our d-league roster.  Next question?

Waiters was the #4 pick in the draft and clearly the 2nd best offensive player on the Cavs. And what about the fact that Varejao would get many, many more open looks that Wilcox does if Rondo was his teammate?

Waiters is the #4 pick.  K.  He's not an efficient scorer. If that's their 2nd best offensive player, it explains why Irving is only averaging 5 assists, right?  How many assists can you get when your top scorer (other than yourself) is only capable of shooting 37% and a dreadful 32% from three.  That's Austin Rivers-esque... Not Pierce/KG/Green/Terry/Bass/Lee-esque
...

You know, maybe I'm crazy, but I seem to forget the 6 years that Varejao played with the king of basketball... the man who commands more attention than anyone in the league... an exceptional passer by the name of LeBron James.  Remind me... was Varejao throwing down dunk-after-dunk-after-dunk playing with James?   I seem to remember him averaging like 6 points.     

Dude couldn't be more overrated right now.  Srsly.

maybe because the Cavs had like 6 other guys on the team who were very good shooters and the offense was built to spread the floor for James? He also took a lot more shots back then. He really didn't start passing a lot until he got to miami. He should have tried it a couple of years earlier.

Waiters was out about a month with an injury. His numbers are already climbing now that he's back. He's a legit scoring threat already early in his rookie season.

His numbers aren't climbing.  Are you just making stuff up?  For the month of December he's averaging 12 points with a dreadful 35% shooting... a ghastly 16% from three. 



Lol sorry I couldn't help myself.

So tell me, would you refuse to trade Wilcox for Varejao?