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[AB_Celtic]

.... Why wouldn't we just trade for Varejao straight up? He's a better all-around player than Big Al, and we wouldn't have to give up as much as in the trade you're suggesting.

[Evantime34]

No Way

Rather have Sully any day and twice on Sunday... Jefferson    Naw ...gee why

Maybe for Milsap , definelty not Al Jefferson ..he can stay somewhere else not on the Celtics, once was enough.

Really? 19.2 points 9.6 boards and 1.7 blocks last year doesn't do anything for you. He's grown as a player since he was in Boston.

Defensively he gives up 103 points per 100 possessions, which is good for second on his team. This gives him the same rating in this metric as Rajon Rondo. The problem with that stat is the players around him. Rondo plays with better defenders which helps improve his defensive rating. On the other hand Jefferson's teammates have the opposite effect.

That sabremetric is meaningless.

Jefferson cannot defend well enough to play on a championship Celtics team. The fascination with his one-dimensional game on this board escapes me.

No, no, no to Al Jefferson. Forever.

Just because you don't understand a statistic doesn't mean it is meaningless. What are you basing his bad defense on? When he was here he was very young without many good players around him to help him on defense. He has gotten better since he was here.

As I said before was Bass considered a good defender before he came here and got paired with KG? That didn't prevent him from being a very good defender this year. KG made Hollins, Stiemsma, Baby, Bass, and Perkins all look better defensively than they actually are. Kg would help Jefferson on defense.

.... Why wouldn't we just trade for Varejao straight up? He's a better all-around player than Big Al, and we wouldn't have to give up as much as in the trade you're suggesting.

Well Varejao makes $8 MM and Jefferson makes $15. To make salaries work for Varejao we couldn't include Green or Bass. Talent wise in a deal another team would want one of those. So to answer your question the only way we could make a fair deal with Cleveland talent-wise would be to have them take on additional salary. If they are trading Varejao to rebuild they wouldn't want to do that.

[AB_Celtic]

.... Why wouldn't we just trade for Varejao straight up? He's a better all-around player than Big Al, and we wouldn't have to give up as much as in the trade you're suggesting.

Well Varejao makes $8 MM and Jefferson makes $15. To make salaries work for Varejao we couldn't include Green or Bass. Talent wise in a deal another team would want one of those. So to answer your question the only way we could make a fair deal with Cleveland talent-wise would be to have them take on additional salary. If they are trading Varejao to rebuild they wouldn't want to do that.

Or... we just take Walton off their hands for salary filler. This is also a huge incentive for them. We could do Bass and Green for Varejao and Walton. Makes sense for both teams.

[Evantime34]

.... Why wouldn't we just trade for Varejao straight up? He's a better all-around player than Big Al, and we wouldn't have to give up as much as in the trade you're suggesting.

Well Varejao makes $8 MM and Jefferson makes $15. To make salaries work for Varejao we couldn't include Green or Bass. Talent wise in a deal another team would want one of those. So to answer your question the only way we could make a fair deal with Cleveland talent-wise would be to have them take on additional salary. If they are trading Varejao to rebuild they wouldn't want to do that.

Or... we just take Walton off their hands for salary filler. This is also a huge incentive for them. We could do Bass and Green for Varejao and Walton. Makes sense for both teams.

Do you think it's fair for Cleveland? Luke Walton is a free agent after the year I don't see why they would just throw him in. A trade like Bass/Green, Sullinger, Lee and a first to Cleveland would be more fair. Would you be interested in that deal? How about if we had to part with Avery Bradley? I think that's what it would take to get Varejao.

In the end I think Varejao is a lot more expensive than Al Jefferson not only because of skill but because Jefferson makes a lot of money and is a free agent to end the year. Varejao is signed for three more years at a bargain basement price.

[Smitty77]

Does anyone know what Varejao's points per possessions stat?  How is his defensive rating?

Thanks,

Smitty77

[pearljammer10]

You would want Big Al over Varejao? Why?

I would think that the interior defense from Varejao would be more important than the post scoring from Big Al for this Celtics team.

Would much much much much much much rather have varejo. Words can't express how much more varejo would for this team than Jefferson.

[Evantime34]

Does anyone know what Varejao's points per possessions stat?  How is his defensive rating?

Thanks,

Smitty77

Did you know the answer to this before you posted? They have the same rating at 103 points per 100 possessions. However, I think Varejao's teammates are much worse than Jefferson's which makes Side Show Bob's number more impressive. Where Andy shines is his defensive rebounding percentage which is second in the league (that is the percent of available rebounds he gets for his team).

If Tristan Thompson continues to play well the Cavs might be more inclined to deal him.

[IndeedProceed]

Does anyone know what Varejao's points per possessions stat?  How is his defensive rating?

Thanks,

Smitty77

Did you know the answer to this before you posted? They have the same rating at 103 points per 100 possessions. However, I think Varejao's teammates are much worse than Jefferson's which makes Side Show Bob's number more impressive. Where Andy shines is his defensive rebounding percentage which is second in the league (that is the percent of available rebounds he gets for his team).

If Tristan Thompson continues to play well the Cavs might be more inclined to deal him.

I think the issue with AV's metric stats are that his fellow players are so bad. Sometimes, the 'bad teammates inflation value' is a bit subjective though.

For instance, Id rather have Boogie Cousins over Varejao because athleticism isn't a limiting factor for cousins. Even though his shooting % and rebounding numbers aren't great, I'd rather sell the farm for him, because he's still theoretically just scratching the surface in a toxic environment.

Varejao's athleticism is his limiting factor, so on a good and balanced team, his contributions would likely go down, not up.

[Evantime34]

Does anyone know what Varejao's points per possessions stat?  How is his defensive rating?

Thanks,

Smitty77

Did you know the answer to this before you posted? They have the same rating at 103 points per 100 possessions. However, I think Varejao's teammates are much worse than Jefferson's which makes Side Show Bob's number more impressive. Where Andy shines is his defensive rebounding percentage which is second in the league (that is the percent of available rebounds he gets for his team).

If Tristan Thompson continues to play well the Cavs might be more inclined to deal him.

I think the issue with AV's metric stats are that his fellow players are so bad. Sometimes, the 'bad teammates inflation value' is a bit subjective though.

For instance, Id rather have Boogie Cousins over Varejao because athleticism isn't a limiting factor for cousins. Even though his shooting % and rebounding numbers aren't great, I'd rather sell the farm for him, because he's still theoretically just scratching the surface in a toxic environment.

Varejao's athleticism is his limiting factor, so on a good and balanced team, his contributions would likely go down, not up.

IP a couple questions
1. What are your thoughts on Jefferson defensively?
2. What do you think is a realistic package for Big Al, Varejao and Cousins respectively? Do you think they have similar values?
3. Do you think we have the chips to get one of these guys?

[eugen]

Get Al and trade Green+Lee

[slamtheking]

Get Al and trade Green+Lee

If Utah feels that they're a couple of solid players away from taking that next step for the next few years, this deal would make sense for them.  A better SF and a solid SG off the bench would really help them while losing Big Al doesn't really hurt them much.  C's would need to come up with a decent back up for PP somehow.

[AB_Celtic]

Get Al and trade Green+Lee

If Utah feels that they're a couple of solid players away from taking that next step for the next few years, this deal would make sense for them.  A better SF and a solid SG off the bench would really help them while losing Big Al doesn't really hurt them much.  C's would need to come up with a decent back up for PP somehow.

Pietrus would have been perfect. I still say sign Donte Greene.

[Smitty77]

Thanks Evantime34!!  No, I didn't know prior to you telling me.  Thanks again.

Smitty77

[KG_ended_Bias]

Big Al is better than both Cousins & Varejao. And if Utah is willing to hand him over to someone you get him period! Jefferson on that bad CAVS team would average 23-12 being he would get more shots & more minutes. I'm on the west coast & is actually up watching Jazz games & Al plays quietly tough, nice guy tough I should say. Plays within the regulations of the game, no cheap antics but makes his mark & during & after the game you know he was there & you had a battle. I'll say Cousins has more upside longterm but isn't team oriented quite yet like Al. Varejao is vastly overrated, a hardworker yes but will not produce on that level on championship ready roster.